1911addict

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Dumb question from me but at what point do lemon laws kick in?





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So was the leak just from some rough machining or was it some larger defect in the seal surface. If it was just some rough machining, if it weren't for warranty issues I'd have just cleaned the surface up if I had to (if no warranty applied of course). Too bad this happens, I feel for you.
I'll plug a dealership group here, I've bought two vehicles through Lithia dealerships, a 2018 Chevy ZR2 and a 2021 JLR. Lithia is very automated, has the auto response stuff set up and the folks are very nice and thorough. If a Lithia dealer is near anyone and they are looking for a vehicle, worth checking out.
 

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Dumb question from me but at what point do lemon laws kick in?
Varies quite a bit by state.

Utah’s lemon law explains that an attempt to fix is presumptively unreasonable if the dealer has repaired the same issue four or more times or if the car has been out of service because of repair for a cumulative total of thirty days.

I fought Ken Garff West Valley for months over major steering issues with my 2009 JKUR in the first year. They finally replaced most of the steering components and got my Jeep back to me after 5 visits and 29 cumulative days, and a letter from my lawyer. F**K those guys.
 

1911addict

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Varies quite a bit by state.

Utah’s lemon law explains that an attempt to fix is presumptively unreasonable if the dealer has repaired the same issue four or more times or if the car has been out of service because of repair for a cumulative total of thirty days.

I fought Ken Garff West Valley for months over major steering issues with my 2009 JKUR in the first year. They finally replaced most of the steering components and got my Jeep back to me after 5 visits and 29 cumulative days, and a letter from my lawyer. F**K those guys.
wow...sorry to hear that.
 

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Wow, to the OP, sorry to hear about your issues. What is the dealership doing about the 2 large scratches on your bumper? There is also no excuse for that either, ever!

In California, I used to be a mechanic at a Toyota dealership. While I could not control vehicles breaking down while under warranty or parts being delayed coming in, the one thing that I could control is how I treated the customers vehicle. In my time at the dealership, I only damaged 1 vehicle. A new 4-Runner, but it was not my fault. The lift pads had a part of them that turned vertical to allow for more height on the pads that made contact with the frame. I was in a different bay other than my regular one because the hydraulic hoses were being replaced in my bay. Unbeknownst to me, the metal pads that flipped up and locked into placed were broke. Or at least the locking mechanism was. As I was raising a new 4-Runner up and had the pads in the rear position flipped up, they failed and the 4-Runner landed on its black running boards. I dove out of the way thinking that the 4-Runner was coming off the lift. Fortunately the only thing damaged was the running boards and we had them in stock. I told the customer and our service Manager what happened. The service Manager knew the locking mechanism on that lift was broke but thought the mechanic that was normally in that bay had told me about it. The customer was actually very understanding about the situation and we had new running boards swapped out in less than an hour. We also gave him his oil change for free and gave him some other future services for free too. Needless to say, as soon as my lift got fixed, that lift was the next one to get serviced. Had the running boards not been on that 4-Runner, it would have definitely come off the lift most likely.
 
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Wow, to the OP, sorry to hear about your issues. What is the dealership doing about the 2 large scratches on your bumper? There is also no excuse for that either, ever!

In California, I used to be a mechanic at a Toyota dealership. While I could not control vehicles breaking down while under warranty or parts being delayed coming in, the one thing that I could control is how I treated the customers vehicle. In my time at the dealership, I only damaged 1 vehicle. A new 4-Runner, but it was not my fault. The lift pads had a part of them that turned vertical to allow for more height on the pads that made contact with the frame. I was in a different bay other than my regular one because the hydraulic hoses were being replaced in my bay. Unbeknownst to me, the metal pads that flipped up and locked into placed were broke. Or at least the locking mechanism was. As I was raising a new 4-Runner up and had the pads in the rear position flipped up, they failed and the 4-Runner landed on its black running boards. I dove out of the way thinking that the 4-Runner was coming off the lift. Fortunately the only thing damaged was the running boards and we had them in stock. I told the customer and our service Manager what happened. The service Manager knew the locking mechanism on that lift was broke but thought the mechanic that was normally in that bay had told me about it. The customer was actually very understanding about the situation and we had new running boards swapped out in less than an hour. We also gave him his oil change for free and gave him some other future services for free too. Needless to say, as soon as my lift got fixed, that lift was the next one to get serviced. Had the running boards not been on that 4-Runner, it would have definitely come off the lift most likely.
Glad that situation didn't end worse than it did. That could have been a catastrophe. Seems negligent for a dealership to allow the use of an overhead lift with a known fault.

As far as my Jeep and the dealership. They said they'd replace the bumper as soon as I found a cure for cancer and an end to world hunger. Pardon my cynicism. They're not doing anything. Neither is @JeepCares

There's no excuse for a vehicle leaving service worse than it entered. Especially one that's brand new.
 

rcliff1

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Sorry for your issues. Hope the new engine works great. So far 17k on our ecodiesel and no issues.
I was working in a Chevy dealership back in the early 90s and we had to replace a engine in a new truck that wasn't even sold yet. There was still casting material in the water jackets causing it to overheat.
 
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Sorry for your issues. Hope the new engine works great. So far 17k on our ecodiesel and no issues.
I was working in a Chevy dealership back in the early 90s and we had to replace a engine in a new truck that wasn't even sold yet. There was still casting material in the water jackets causing it to overheat.
Thanks! I hope so too!

I'm really not that upset about the oil leak. I understand that even with quality control and testing, you can still have issues. Even if it's 1 in 100,000 - there's still that 1. It just happened to be me.

What bugs me is how the whole thing was handled.
  • Initial rookie misdiagnoses
  • Questionable follow-on diagnosis (was it really the oil filter housing? or was it maybe the timing chain cover, which is more common?)
  • Knee-jerk reaction to replace the whole engine without researching with FCA or other dealerships
  • Damage to my Jeep during the engine swap
  • Most of all - the terrible customer support
It was all handled so poorly.

Anyway... no crying over spilled milk I suppose. Thanks for the encouragement! :)
 

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Sorry for your issues. Hope the new engine works great. So far 17k on our ecodiesel and no issues.
I was working in a Chevy dealership back in the early 90s and we had to replace a engine in a new truck that wasn't even sold yet. There was still casting material in the water jackets causing it to overheat.
That's what happened to a LOT of the 2012/13 Wranglers with Pentastar engines. Casting sand clogged the heater cores, caused poor heat performance in the cabin. Mine had the dash and interior ripped out when 3 months old to repair it. It was a pretty rampant issue.
 

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Sorry Bro, that sucks. I know it doesn't help you out, but... In this day of everything else in the world Fubarred up, you want to trust your new Jeep. It has been a long time since I have seen what I consider to be good service and respect from a dealer.
 

OBJLU

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Jeep Cares looped in regional management in my case so they did help in a very substantial way. It did take a little prodding but they are BUSY.
 

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I hate to year about your troubles with the 3.0! Hopefully the new one will be better. I have over 8,000 miles on mine now and no visible leaks. Did you notice how hot your first one ran and do you think heat had any factor in it? My 3.0 runs really hot and I've been watching for related issues.
 

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Sorry to hear about your troubles at your dealership, I’m going through the same thing here in Memphis Tennessee at Gossett motors. Someone that works at Jeep(like an engineer or product manager) should read these forums and be concerned because I really do not ever want to buy another jeep again.
 
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I hate to year about your troubles with the 3.0! Hopefully the new one will be better. I have over 8,000 miles on mine now and no visible leaks. Did you notice how hot your first one ran and do you think heat had any factor in it? My 3.0 runs really hot and I've been watching for related issues.
No issues with heat at all. No "dummy lights", warnings or indicators of any kind really, except the small oil spot on my garage floor.

Sorry to hear about your troubles at your dealership, I’m going through the same thing here in Memphis Tennessee at Gossett motors. Someone that works at Jeep(like an engineer or product manager) should read these forums and be concerned because I really do not ever want to buy another jeep again.
You'd think, right? I figured Jeep and FCA would want to get involved see if there's a manufacturing problem or something. From my perspective, the whole thing has just been no big deal to FCA, Jeep and my dealership. I even said something about it to my wife when I dropped it off (again) for the engine swap. When I told the service advisor my name and why I was there he said "Oh, I didn't know you were coming in today." It was almost as if he we surprised that he had any customers at all. "Oh, there are people here today? I guess we should do something." I don't expect a welcoming party for an unscheduled oil change or anything, but dou'd think that for something like *an engine swap* on a *brand new vehicle* they'd be a bit prepared. Crazy talk, I know.
 

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Sorry to hear about your troubles at your dealership, I’m going through the same thing here in Memphis Tennessee at Gossett motors. Someone that works at Jeep(like an engineer or product manager) should read these forums and be concerned because I really do not ever want to buy another jeep again.
my first two jeeps (a 98 Sahara and 98 5.9 Limited ZJ) came from there.
the ZJ was in the shop for 2 months for a total long block replacement at 18k.

I will say it sucis to be in that position but if they’re working toward resolving the issue and you’re in a loaner, it’ll be ok eventually
 

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