3.0L “Tornado” Straight-Six Engine (GME T6) Coming to Various Jeep Models?

[roaniecowpony]

Here's an interesting article on the Calif AQMD website. The AQMD played a huge role, maybe the largest role (due to LA's unique situation), in cleaning up the automobile emissions over the years.
50 Years of Progress (aqmd.gov)

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[Whaler27]

I think most of the "Californians" leaving CA are people that came to CA from other states in the past. The only people I've heard of leaving were deeply conservative.

I disagree. In the mid 1960s Oregon was politically conservative — virtually indistinguishable from Texas. The Oregon Governor was a republican during my college years, and the Legislature was a mix of conservatives and liberals. That was over forty years ago, and that was Oregon’s last republican governor. I can’t remember a republican even making a race of it since then, and the Legislature clicks one notch further left every session.

As of ten years ago, less than 50% of Oregon residents had lived here more than ten years. That’s a striking statistic. Today the largest share of Oregon’s immigrants are from California, as they have been for many years. They have transformed Oregon into a caricature of progressive politics. Now the state is well left of Berkeley — something I could not have imagined in my youth. The “old Oregon”, east of Bend and south of Cottage Grove, remains politically conservative, as it has experienced very little of the mass California migration, but Bend and the Willamette Valley (Eugene to Portland), the principal repositories for the California pipeline, are now hard left. Today, our Governor is a progressive democrat and democrats have a super-majority in the Oregon legislature. Old Oregon is still “red”, and it covers the vast majority of Oregon’s land area, but it is virtually without influence in Oregon politics which now average out well left of the Obama platform.

I‘m not familiar with the population statistics for other states, but Colorado, Montana, Idaho, Texas, and Arizona, all deep red fifteen years ago, are experiencing a surge in California transplants, and all “purpling up” noticeably. If it’s the conservatives who are leaving California I see no evidence of where they are going.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I disagree. In the mid 1960s Oregon was politically conservative — virtually indistinguishable from Texas. The Oregon Governor was a republican during my college years, and the Legislature was a mix of conservatives and liberals. That was over forty years ago, and that was Oregon’s last republican governor. I can’t remember a republican even making a race of it since then, and the Legislature clicks one notch further left every session.

As of ten years ago, less than 50% of Oregon residents had lived here more than ten years. That’s a striking statistic. Today the largest share of Oregon’s immigrants are from California, as they have been for many years. They have transformed Oregon into a caricature of progressive politics. Now the state is well left of Berkeley — something I could not have imagined in my youth. The “old Oregon”, east of Bend and south of Cottage Grove, remains politically conservative, as it has experienced very little of the mass California migration, but Bend and the Willamette Valley (Eugene to Portland), the principal repositories for the California pipeline, are now hard left. Today, our Governor is a progressive democrat and democrats have a super-majority in the Oregon legislature. Old Oregon is still “red”, and it covers the vast majority of Oregon’s land area, but it is virtually without influence in Oregon politics which now average out well left of the Obama platform.

I‘m not familiar with the population statistics for other states, but Colorado, Montana, Idaho, Texas, and Arizona, all deep red fifteen years ago, are experiencing a surge in California transplants, and all “purpling up” noticeably. If it’s the conservatives who are leaving California I see no evidence of where they are going.

I agree with you about the migration some 4-5 decades ago from CA to OR. My liberal sister and her very liberal husband were among them. My recollection was it was the "great hippie migration" to Oregon. But my personal experience with today's migration out of CA is largely due to conservatives driven out by restrictive laws. That is also the largely publicized opinions of the current migration out of CA. Being retired now, I've considered it myself and advocated my wife to consider it (but she cares for her elderly mother at this time). Consider that most of the people in CA came from somewhere else, during the CA boom years. Many of the people that came from other states, that I know, and are now able to move (retired etc) are moving out. The latest is a coworker conservative gun toting guy from NYC, that is moving to North Carolina in a relatively small city. But, CA is that state that people love to hate.

I think as cities grow, the thought process on laws is pretty much the same across most of mankind. They are trying to solve problems that less populated areas just don't have. The solutions are pretty much the same across the country. Those solutions are pretty much catagorized as "liberal" solutions. These growing cities in places like Texas, Colorado, etc., start having the same issues large cities in CA experienced decades ago and re-use many of the solutions (laws). But blaming it on CA transplants is popular, since there are so many people that leave. They must be liberals, they came from CA. LOL.

 

[jjvincent]

Read the same and my first thought was unlined aluminum cylinders! Longevity?? Especially on a boosted engine!

A 1986 944 Turbo was a 2.5l aluminum block with no liners. They never had problems. A 1976 Porsche 930 Turbo was an aircooled non intercooled flat 6. Had no liners either. You don't have to have cast iron sleeves but most manufacturers use them because they are cheap. On the other hand some liners do crack and most of the lined aluminum blocks are not friendly for overbore (maybe just first oversize). In the end there's no perfect solution but what I have seen is that engines are outlasting the rest of the vehicle, thus why there are so many dirt cheap engines available.

 

[Whaler27]

I agree with you about the migration some 4-5 decades ago from CA to OR. My liberal sister and her very liberal husband were among them. My recollection was it was the "great hippie migration" to Oregon. But my personal experience with today's migration out of CA is largely due to conservatives driven out by restrictive laws. That is also the largely publicized opinions of the current migration out of CA. Being retired now, I've considered it myself and advocated my wife to consider it (but she cares for her elderly mother at this time). Consider that most of the people in CA came from somewhere else, during the CA boom years. Many of the people that came from other states, that I know, and are now able to move (retired etc) are moving out. The latest is a coworker conservative gun toting guy from NYC, that is moving to North Carolina in a relatively small city. But, CA is that state that people love to hate.

I think as cities grow, the thought process on laws is pretty much the same across most of mankind. They are trying to solve problems that less populated areas just don't have. The solutions are pretty much the same across the country. Those solutions are pretty much catagorized as "liberal" solutions. These growing cities in places like Texas, Colorado, etc., start having the same issues large cities in CA experienced decades ago and re-use many of the solutions (laws). But blaming it on CA transplants is popular, since there are so many people that leave. They must be liberals, they came from CA. LOL.

I hadn’t thought of it like this, and your idea makes some sense to me, but Portland and Eugene became caricatures of the liberal ideal without managing anything like the urban pressures of Dallas, Kansas City, or even Orlando, all of which are more conservative, though blue in centers. Also, Oregon is still a largely rural state, with comparatively few of the big city challenges, but Democrats now have a super-majority in the legislature. Republicans have become irrelevant except with respect to meeting quorum requirements. Also, in Portland and Eugene, like San Francisco and Seattle, their approach to the biggest challenges has exacerbated them.

On the engine front I remain optimistic about a new six-cylinder engine because, whatever the path, people don’t like change and our government gets less efficient and worse at meeting timeline-related goals every year. For those reasons alone, if I were managing the power plant decisions, I’d favor installing an efficient and high-performing six in the Wrangler between 2023 and 2033.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I hadn’t thought of it like this, and your idea makes some sense to me, but Portland and Eugene became caricatures of the liberal ideal without managing anything like the urban pressures of Dallas, Kansas City, or even Orlando, all of which are more conservative, though blue in centers. Also, Oregon is still a largely rural state, with comparatively few of the big city challenges, but Democrats now have a super-majority in the legislature. Republicans have become irrelevant except with respect to meeting quorum requirements. Also, in Portland and Eugene, like San Francisco and Seattle, their approach to the biggest challenges has exacerbated them.

On the engine front I remain optimistic about a new six-cylinder engine because, whatever the path, people don’t like change and our government gets less efficient and worse at meeting timeline-related goals every year. For those reasons alone, if I were managing the power plant decisions, I’d favor installing an efficient and high-performing six in the Wrangler between 2023 and 2033.

I would like to see this kind of engine make it to a Jeep too. I don't know if I'm going to be a buyer as I'm at the age where this one could be my last. But, maybe.

I have a good friend up in Vale, OR. He's a real rural kind of guy that I met hunting. He's looking to move soon. He likes ID, but the politics are starting to go the other way. He may still move there as he's going to live in a rural area anyway and he's in his mid 70s. I think he was born in CA but spent much of his life in OR. I was born in OH on Wright-Patt AFB and raised around the world on bases. When the music stopped for my father, my mother wanted to "live the California dream" which was what most of the world wanted in the 50-60s.

 

[gato]

‘The details about the new I6 indicate it’s only a couple of inches longer than the I4. It should fit easily.

I've read that before, and I hope you are right. A lot of accessory relocation that happened to shorten the engine, may put these accessories in unfavorable locations for a vehicle that needs to ford 3 ft of water.

But yes, I hope that Jeep will offer a 3.0T Wrangler with 37s from the factory to compete with the Bronco Raptor. That will be my next Wrangler.

 

[Retrograde]

Check out #154... WTF? I thought we were smarter than that now...?

 

[beaups]

Check out #154... WTF? I thought we were smarter than that now...?

EGR controller, EGR computer, doesn’t have to mean EGR cooler does it?

 

[Retrograde]

EGR controller, EGR computer, doesn’t have to mean EGR cooler does it?

EGR Controller, actually... I was commenting on the presence of EGR at all. Weren't we getting away from that?

 

[roaniecowpony]

EGR Controller, actually... I was commenting on the presence of EGR at all. Weren't we getting away from that?

I saw this and also thought we would have moved on from an EGR by now. I also read enough about it that it likely is indeed a EGR cooler to pre-cool the exhaust prior to intake charge mixing. As I understand it, the exhaust is inert and during super lean cruise (lots of O2, not much fuel), the chamber temperatures get so high that NOX is produced in large quantities. The cooled inert exhaust suppresses chamber temperatures and the formation of NOX. (don't ask me how.)

Apparently, the EGR concept hasn't had a better replacement. But the variable timing cam can also reduce NOX.

 

[Retrograde]

...it likely is indeed a EGR cooler to pre-cool the exhaust prior to intake charge mixing...

That would be weird. Everything downstream of the turbos goes through the Charge Air Cooler (intercooler) on the other side of the motor anyway (that thing labeled 'CAC').

I dunno, the whole thing strikes me as weird-- a twin turbo, 3.0 liter aluminum motor making 400HP with no cylinder liners. That sounds like a grenade in an age when we were just getting used to engines that lasted 100K miles...

I think I'm going to sit back and watch for a bit while you guys try 'em out.

 

[Traveller128]

FYI, egr is coming back. 2022 Volvos have it, including a cooler for it. Back to fixed cam timing on the new motor, redesigned head.

Emissions even cleaner, meets euro specs.

MHEV on the "B" engines, no starter motors.

When I saw the new specs, thought I was going back a few years.

 

[Beowulf]

Question: will this be paired to the AWD transfercase and a Manual?

If not, I'll just stick to an Auto to get the full time 4wd.

 

[LarryB]

I agree there's absolutely going to be another motor in the next handful of years and I hope everything doesn't automatically go the way of the 4-cylinder. This is just my opinion but I don't like what the 2.0 does to the sound and feel of the vehicle when the 3.6 is borderline muscular by comparison, especially with its pops and crackles upon manual upshifts on the 8speed. A straight six would be incredible for these rigs if it'd fit.

On the 2 door situation - I sincerely hope Jeep has plans for the 2 door beyond "keep making the existing configurations". The Bronco probably affords its additional drivetrain flexibility by the fact that it's 10 inches longer than the 2 door Wrangler, putting it in LJ wheelbase ballpark in between the 2dr and 4dr JL. This gives them a bit more of everything - space for drivetrains as well as space for rear legroom and cargo areas, but even still they're only fitting a 16.9 gallon fuel tank to them.

I would absolutely love to see a 2 door Wrangler that's 8-10 inches longer in wheelbase (the JLU is 22 inches longer than JL), enabling bigger fuel tank, less comical storage space with the backseats in, and by association of the larger tank, 4XE and 392 esque drivetrains happening again.

Another vote for a new “LJ Unlimited” … I’d buy one in a heartbeat.

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