2021 JL with automatic, slams itself in park

RoadiJeff

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I don’t need the door open. But I am capable of holding door without a seat belt to pull through gate.
I think I'd be concerned with dinging an open door on the gate post as I drove through.
 

Scott.B

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Man created mirrors. Then he never fell out of the wagon and got ran over by 35 inch tires! :)
 

Whaler27

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Auto Park engages when all of the following are true:
  • Vehicle not in Park
  • Vehicle speed is 1.2 MPH or less
  • Driver's seat belt is unbuckled
  • Driver's door is ajar
  • Brake pedal is not depressed
What exactly do you need to do at 1.2 MPH or less with your seat belt off, your foot off the brake and your door open? Whatever it is, it's probably not a good idea.
I don’t think you get it.

I’ll apologize in advance for the long rant, but this topic really hits a nerve for me…

We older guys grew up in a world where one tragedy didn’t automatically result in government or corporate intervention to save us from ourselves. For most of us, all the expensive, poorly designed, idiot-protection contrivances are downright irritating, and the world is dominated by them, particularly in the US. Many of them, like the spring-loaded, half-twist, triple-sow-cow, spouts on portable gas cans don’t work as well as the simple 1940s versions they forcibly replaced. (The old gas can spouts were made of a soft, pliable, rubber. To fill a saw, mini bike, or lawnmower all you had to do was pinch the hose closed, lift the can, insert the hose, and release the pinch until you were near full, then reverse the process. I had this process down by the time I was eight years old. I didn’t start spilling the gas all over the saw and the ground until the government tried to save me from myself with complicated spring-loaded contraptions.)

My 2018 Ford pickup is equipped with alarm bells that notify me of EVERYTHING. They even warn me if I put the truck in reverse, or I have the brake set. There’s simply no way to quietly start the truck and drive off. There’s an unavoidable symphony of idiot bells and gongs no matter what I do. It’s all irritating. Do I need an alarm system to notify me when I’m approaching a steep staircase, or I’m preparing to cross a parking lot or an intersection on foot?

Life is dangerous, and none of us are getting out of it alive.

And if you’re too stupid to learn how to pour gas from a can, maybe you should not be near dangerous powered machinery?

Our family had a large ranch. There are 10,000 ways to die on a ranch. Most of us survived.

My dad taught me to drive a small, manual, utility tractor pulling a wagon when I was 7 years old. During the trailer hook-up process he taught me how to estimate the hitch line-up, get close, then put the tractor in neutral, set the brake, and go look at the distance and direction between the hitch and connection. Then he taught me to go get back on the tractor and look down to find a unique pebble, twig, or leaf that was about the same distance and direction from a mark on the tractor frame, so I could use it to estimate my progress as I backed up. By the time I was eight I almost never had to get off the tractor more than once to line up a hitch. When I started driving our ranch pickup trucks two years later I used the same technique, but that required having the driver’s door slightly ajar, so I could see the ground. That’s how I hooked up trailers of every sort, thousands and thousands of times, for more than fifty years — until I bought my 2019 JL, and the handy “auto-park” feature engaged itself. I wasn’t being reckless or trying to look cool. I was trying to hook up a log splitter. It pissed me off.

Now I’m using the backup camera to align trailers, of course, and it’s easy. It’s clearly better than the technique I learned as a kid, but I resent nanny features that are engineered to save me from myself, and many other thinking people feel the same way.

It’s a shame somebody managed to kill herself by running herself over with her Jeep. In a fair and rational world, that’s not Jeep’s fault, and it doesn’t merit “auto-park”.

Consider the following list of amazing ways people have managed to kill themselves, then imagine the list of government and corporate solutions you might design, all at great expense, to make each way of killing yourself impossible.

I‘d rather take care of myself, but the expectation of personal responsibility is less popular every generation.

  1. Falling out of bed - 450 people per year die after falling out of bed;
  2. Randy Llanes impaled on the bill of a swordfish;
  3. Falling off a ladder and landing head first in a water bucket;
  4. Man killed by his own explosive while trying to steal from a condom dispenser;
  5. Hit by a coconut falling off a tree, approximately 150 people each year are killed by coconuts;
  6. Man died after being stabbed in the eye with an umbrella;
  7. Teenager taking a selfie with a loaded handgun shot himself in the throat;
  8. US cyclist, Troy Earl Smith Jr, shot himself to death with gun carried in his breast pocket;
  9. Man crushed while moving a fridge freezer;
  10. Undertaker Marc Bourjade crushed by his own coffins
  11. Crushed by your partner;
  12. In 1975, Alex Mitchell laughed so hard at The Goodies 'Ecky Thump' episode that he died of heart failure;
  13. Man run over by his own vehicle; (sound familiar?)
  14. Texan Michael Warner, 58, died of a lethal Sherry enema;
  15. King Adolf Frederick of Sweden - the King who ate himself to death;
  16. 24 people each year are killed by champagne corks;
  17. Strangled by neckties or scarves;
  18. Barry Pilgrim trampled by cattle in the Derbyshire;
  19. Peggye McNair and Mark Mere - trampled to death by camels on a farm;
  20. Alexandru Pop, 46, eaten by a drove of pigs;
  21. Spectator deaths - hit by golf ball, cricket ball, racing/rally car or motorcycle;
  22. Roger Wallace was killed by his own remote controlled plane
  23. Stepping backwards off cliff or similar to help photographer get you in frame;
  24. Falling from the top of a lighthouse;
  25. Falling off an inflatable artwork;
  26. Drowning in a barrel of mead;
  27. Drinking too much water;
  28. Killed by an industrial firework placed on head;
  29. Eating too many carrots;
  30. Swung by your ankles by a clown and hitting your head - William Snyder died age 13 in 1854;
  31. Falling off a theatre balcony;
  32. Hit by a piece of falling scaffolding;
  33. Crushed by giant bale of hay falling on your van;
  34. Hit by bullets fired in celebration;
  35. Falling out of a tree;
  36. Walking through a closed glass door and being cut to death;
  37. Drowning in the bath;
  38. Car engine bonnet shutting on your head;
  39. Heading a medicine ball;
  40. Stabbed during argument over game of Ludo;
  41. Falling on to wine glass and cutting neck;
  42. Kicked by a horse;
  43. Burned to death while making a barbecue from an oil drum.
  44. Dropping weights on yourself while doing presses.
  45. Owner of the world's longest beard tripped on it and broke his neck
  46. American lawyer Clement Vallandigham shot himself in a court room in 1871 while showing the jury how his client’s alleged murder victim had actually shot himself;
  47. Eight people were killed in the London Beer Flood of 1814, when 135,000 gallons of ale burst out of the Meux and Company Brewery on Tottenham Court Road;
  48. Death by carrot juice overdose. Basil Brown drank 10 gallons of juice in 10 days - overdosing on Vitamin A and suffering severe liver damage.
 

Reinen

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I don’t think you get it.

I’ll apologize in advance for the long rant, but this topic really hits a nerve for me…

We older guys ...
I do get it. I am an older guy. And I'm an engineer. While not in the auto industry, I do specialize in user interfaces to a significant degree.

Now I’m using the backup camera to align trailers, of course, and it’s easy. It’s clearly better than the technique I learned as a kid, but I resent nanny features that are engineered to save me from myself
During the entire description of the method you learned as kid, all I could think was "Um... There's a backup camera now". A significant part of designing user interfaces is how to get people set in their ways of using old techniques to use new, better techniques. If it's just a matter of efficiency and convenience, you can continue to support the old technique for those unwilling to change. But if safety is involved, you need to specifically inhibit use of the old technique. Stepping out of a vehicle mid-operation leaves significant opportunity for mistakes, which do happen and is a safety issue. You may resent that, but if people do make a mistake they are much more likely to file lawsuits instead of blaming themselves. So you're being saved from yourself whether you like it or not. A company can go out of business if they don't.

What are you really resenting anyway? You admit the new technique is better than the old technique you used for years. How dare you make me change to a better technique? ...Really?

It’s a shame somebody managed to kill herself by running herself over with her Jeep. In a fair and rational world, that’s not Jeep’s fault, and it doesn’t merit “auto-park”.
Herself?!?! What's up with that?
The straw that broke the camel's back was the high profile death of Anton Yelchin (male, btw) best known for playing Checkov in the J J Abrams' Star Trek movies. It was already known that Jeeps had an abnormally high amount of rollaway incidents due to driver error and there was already a recall underway to help address it. It reached dealerships the same week as Anton's death. It was the recall combined with Anton's high profile death which understandably resulted in the additional step of developing Auto Park.

Lets not try to dismiss this with the "female drivers" trope. If it was caused by any sex, it was men. Nevertheless, the correct word is "themself" because it's a well established fact that all humans (both male and female) are never infallible and will inevitably make mistakes.

And if you’re too stupid to learn how to pour gas from a can, maybe you should not be near dangerous powered machinery?
I will agree with you about gas cans. The safety features are good in concept but terribly implemented. They end up doing the exact opposite of their design intent. I have to assume a modern gas can spout will force me to spill gas while it's much easier to not spill gas with an old gas can. Part of designing a user interface is testing results once they are used in real-world applications. They could very well fail and be worse than not being present at all. But that's what happens when you get government involved. They'll force a bad safety feature into law and make it much more difficult to undo when it fails to perform as intended.
 

gato

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Ok, I knew it was a joke. I did not miss the point. The reason we have all kinds of crap in our life is because someone somewhere did something stupid, or just plain messed up. Accidents happen, if it were planned it would not be an accident. There are times you might want to have your seatbelt off and open the door. Is it 100% safe, probably not. But one instance is when I had my TJ, I had marks on the garage floor where I would back up to place my tires exactly where I wanted them to take the top off with the winch on the ceiling. So I would lean out a little while I was idling to where I wanted to stop. I understood the risk I was taking, but did it anyway.
I am probably not the guy you want to try to convince about all our safety standards. I used to skydive, bungee jump and like I said I ride a motorcycle. In fact on the bike I do adventure riding. My last great ride before covid I rode, by myself, oh my, up to Tuktoyaktuk NW territories in Canada. I was in the military 24 years and in some pretty shitty places. So I figure I am going to enjoy my life, danger be damned. I don't play russion roulette, but yea sometimes I like to get my adrenaline up. So little things like taking my seatbelt off, opening the door to look out just does not where I am backing up just does not rate up there as so dangerous they need to add this crap to my vehicle.
Sorry to get on my soapbox, I really am not wanting to piss you off. I understand autopark and how it works. But the guy just did not understand it, and asked the question. He just wanted a reply to the question. Not to be scolded by his mom.
All good. Race car driver, competitive shooter, airplane pilot here. Adventures are awesome, and some of the nanny state mandates are annoying. But in this case it is a private company doing something because stupid people get injured and sue or get killed and the family sues. Simple as that - pure economics.
 

rickinAZ

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Hearhear

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All good. Race car driver, competitive shooter, airplane pilot here. Adventures are awesome, and some of the nanny state mandates are annoying. But in this case it is a private company doing something because stupid people get injured and sue or get killed and the family sues. Simple as that - pure economics.
This ^
Has nothing really to do with “nanny state”, has everything to do with insurance and lawyers. Corporations don’t care if you mess up and kill yourself. But after a few million dollar successful lawsuits, they will “care”. If you wanna place blame for “nanny state” safety measures, blame idiots with injuries who sue the companies and force them to act. Blame dummies who did stupid things and died, then had loved ones with excellent lawyers get a huge paycheck. The most fearless rough and tough adventurer who isn’t afraid of anything would never start a car business and sell cars without seat belts and air bags. He values his wallet and fears lawsuits.
 

Col_Sanders

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Auto park is stupid on a vehicle designed to be driven with the doors off. You mean driving 75mph on the highway with no doors is ok but trying to move forward an inch or two with the door cracked is unsafe? What sense does that make?

And some of you people...sheesh... There's more to towing and backing a trailer than seeing your damn hitch.
 

mwilk012

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Auto park is stupid on a vehicle designed to be driven with the doors off. You mean driving 75mph on the highway with no doors is ok but trying to move forward an inch or two with the door cracked is unsafe? What sense does that make?

And some of you people...sheesh... There's more to towing and backing a trailer than seeing your damn hitch.
there is absolutely nothing that you can see better hanging your ass half out of the door than you can from the drivers seat using your mirrors and spatial awareness.
 

Whaler27

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Herself?!?! What's up with that? <<snip>> Lets not try to dismiss this with the "female drivers" trope. If it was caused by any sex, it was men. Nevertheless, the correct word is "themself" because it's a well established fact that all humans (both male and female) are never infallible and will inevitably make mistakes.
I quoted the section above because I wanted to correct the misunderstanding I caused. My post wasn’t meant to disrespect female drivers. I have two sisters, both of whom are extremely competent drivers. My use of a female pronoun was a function of my failing memory: I incorrectly remembered the rollover victim being a female TV personality. That’s my error.

As to the rest of your post, I conclude we simply have wildly divergent world views.

You may find it interesting, challenging, or worthwhile working on an “interface” that will train people like me into new behaviors but, like many others, I’m comfortable with behaviors that have worked safely for me for five or six decades. As long as I’m not hurting anybody else, and I’m not, I’d prefer to be left alone with functional products that work.

And let’s not pretend that the gas can example is an isolated one. Much of the equipment used on a ranch has been reengineered repeatedly to save me from myself, and much of it is more complicated, more expensive, more failure-prone, and more difficult to repair as a result.

When I see a kid ride by on a sport-bike with shorts, flip-flops, and no helmet I think he’s an idiot, but I don’t pray for engineers to design a new safety system that will make it impossible to ride that bike without wearing an airbag suit, boots, and a helmet. And I don’t want tort lawyers, engineers, or the government determining that motorcycles, or aircraft, or firearms, or hunting, or tractors, or chainsaws, or Jeep’s, are too dangerous for me without more engineering assistance or government intervention.
 
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davers

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I don’t think you get it.

I’ll apologize in advance for the long rant, but this topic really hits a nerve for me…

We older guys grew up in a world where one tragedy didn’t automatically result in government or corporate intervention to save us from ourselves. For most of us, all the expensive, poorly designed, idiot-protection contrivances are downright irritating, and the world is dominated by them, particularly in the US. Many of them, like the spring-loaded, half-twist, triple-sow-cow, spouts on portable gas cans don’t work as well as the simple 1940s versions they forcibly replaced. (The old gas can spouts were made of a soft, pliable, rubber. To fill a saw, mini bike, or lawnmower all you had to do was pinch the hose closed, lift the can, insert the hose, and release the pinch until you were near full, then reverse the process. I had this process down by the time I was eight years old. I didn’t start spilling the gas all over the saw and the ground until the government tried to save me from myself with complicated spring-loaded contraptions.)

My 2018 Ford pickup is equipped with alarm bells that notify me of EVERYTHING. They even warn me if I put the truck in reverse, or I have the brake set. There’s simply no way to quietly start the truck and drive off. There’s an unavoidable symphony of idiot bells and gongs no matter what I do. It’s all irritating. Do I need an alarm system to notify me when I’m approaching a steep staircase, or I’m preparing to cross a parking lot or an intersection on foot?

Life is dangerous, and none of us are getting out of it alive.

And if you’re too stupid to learn how to pour gas from a can, maybe you should not be near dangerous powered machinery?

Our family had a large ranch. There are 10,000 ways to die on a ranch. Most of us survived.

My dad taught me to drive a small, manual, utility tractor pulling a wagon when I was 7 years old. During the trailer hook-up process he taught me how to estimate the hitch line-up, get close, then put the tractor in neutral, set the brake, and go look at the distance and direction between the hitch and connection. Then he taught me to go get back on the tractor and look down to find a unique pebble, twig, or leaf that was about the same distance and direction from a mark on the tractor frame, so I could use it to estimate my progress as I backed up. By the time I was eight I almost never had to get off the tractor more than once to line up a hitch. When I started driving our ranch pickup trucks two years later I used the same technique, but that required having the driver’s door slightly ajar, so I could see the ground. That’s how I hooked up trailers of every sort, thousands and thousands of times, for more than fifty years — until I bought my 2019 JL, and the handy “auto-park” feature engaged itself. I wasn’t being reckless or trying to look cool. I was trying to hook up a log splitter. It pissed me off.

Now I’m using the backup camera to align trailers, of course, and it’s easy. It’s clearly better than the technique I learned as a kid, but I resent nanny features that are engineered to save me from myself, and many other thinking people feel the same way.

It’s a shame somebody managed to kill herself by running herself over with her Jeep. In a fair and rational world, that’s not Jeep’s fault, and it doesn’t merit “auto-park”.

Consider the following list of amazing ways people have managed to kill themselves, then imagine the list of government and corporate solutions you might design, all at great expense, to make each way of killing yourself impossible.

I‘d rather take care of myself, but the expectation of personal responsibility is less popular every generation.

  1. Falling out of bed - 450 people per year die after falling out of bed;
  2. Randy Llanes impaled on the bill of a swordfish;
  3. Falling off a ladder and landing head first in a water bucket;
  4. Man killed by his own explosive while trying to steal from a condom dispenser;
  5. Hit by a coconut falling off a tree, approximately 150 people each year are killed by coconuts;
  6. Man died after being stabbed in the eye with an umbrella;
  7. Teenager taking a selfie with a loaded handgun shot himself in the throat;
  8. US cyclist, Troy Earl Smith Jr, shot himself to death with gun carried in his breast pocket;
  9. Man crushed while moving a fridge freezer;
  10. Undertaker Marc Bourjade crushed by his own coffins
  11. Crushed by your partner;
  12. In 1975, Alex Mitchell laughed so hard at The Goodies 'Ecky Thump' episode that he died of heart failure;
  13. Man run over by his own vehicle; (sound familiar?)
  14. Texan Michael Warner, 58, died of a lethal Sherry enema;
  15. King Adolf Frederick of Sweden - the King who ate himself to death;
  16. 24 people each year are killed by champagne corks;
  17. Strangled by neckties or scarves;
  18. Barry Pilgrim trampled by cattle in the Derbyshire;
  19. Peggye McNair and Mark Mere - trampled to death by camels on a farm;
  20. Alexandru Pop, 46, eaten by a drove of pigs;
  21. Spectator deaths - hit by golf ball, cricket ball, racing/rally car or motorcycle;
  22. Roger Wallace was killed by his own remote controlled plane
  23. Stepping backwards off cliff or similar to help photographer get you in frame;
  24. Falling from the top of a lighthouse;
  25. Falling off an inflatable artwork;
  26. Drowning in a barrel of mead;
  27. Drinking too much water;
  28. Killed by an industrial firework placed on head;
  29. Eating too many carrots;
  30. Swung by your ankles by a clown and hitting your head - William Snyder died age 13 in 1854;
  31. Falling off a theatre balcony;
  32. Hit by a piece of falling scaffolding;
  33. Crushed by giant bale of hay falling on your van;
  34. Hit by bullets fired in celebration;
  35. Falling out of a tree;
  36. Walking through a closed glass door and being cut to death;
  37. Drowning in the bath;
  38. Car engine bonnet shutting on your head;
  39. Heading a medicine ball;
  40. Stabbed during argument over game of Ludo;
  41. Falling on to wine glass and cutting neck;
  42. Kicked by a horse;
  43. Burned to death while making a barbecue from an oil drum.
  44. Dropping weights on yourself while doing presses.
  45. Owner of the world's longest beard tripped on it and broke his neck
  46. American lawyer Clement Vallandigham shot himself in a court room in 1871 while showing the jury how his client’s alleged murder victim had actually shot himself;
  47. Eight people were killed in the London Beer Flood of 1814, when 135,000 gallons of ale burst out of the Meux and Company Brewery on Tottenham Court Road;
  48. Death by carrot juice overdose. Basil Brown drank 10 gallons of juice in 10 days - overdosing on Vitamin A and suffering severe liver damage.
Jeebus! Number 20 would absolutely be the worst!!
 

Whaler27

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Jeebus! Number 20 would absolutely be the worst!!
Yes!

Fortunately, engineers are working on various systems to avoid that sort of tragedy in the future, including a pig-mandible-disabler that all ranchers will be required to purchase and install on their livestock when the pigs are not actively feeding! :like: The cost of bacon will soar, but thats the cost of protecting people.

Joking aside, hogs have featured prominently in plenty of homicide cases, as they are a very effective way of getting rid of evidence.
 
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