Dryver

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I guess I missed it too = I thought the 20 mpg was in hybrid mode.
So no EPA mileage figure for hybrid? Seems that number would be important-
This is interesting though. My wife drives a 2012 Prius. It usually seems to get about 46-50 MPG per trip when I remember to look at the screen at shutdown. EPA says the it should get MPG of 51 city/48 highway, so we're in the ballpark. EPA says the plug-in version gets 95 MPGe on gas/electric and 50 MPG on gas only, so the plug-in on gas only (which should really still involve the battery just like the non plug-in), is about the same as the non plug-in, and that figure is a little over half of the MPGe figure. Using that as a rough guide, perhaps the 4xe will get around 25-26 MPG after "depleting" the battery.

However, assuming the that EPA ratings are right, then the 20 MPG should be the normal hybrid rating as Shasta-Steve says above, and efficiency of usage is worse than on the Prius in hybrid mode. Not a happy thought, but most of my daily driving should be on all-electric to and from work, so I'll still be way far ahead than if I had an all-gas JL.





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wrc777

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The combined city/hwy on gasoline is 23 on a 2 door with 2.0, 22 on a 4 door with 2.0, and 20 on the 4XE. The 2.0 sports don't get any hybrid system whatsoever. How did Jeep lose 2 mpg by adding a hybrid system? At worst it should be the same and since it should have full hybrid mode it should gain at least 2mpg city (maybe even 5-8mpg) vs the non-hybrid models.
 

Sboden

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The combined city/hwy on gasoline is 23 on a 2 door with 2.0, 22 on a 4 door with 2.0, and 20 on the 4XE. The 2.0 sports don't get any hybrid system whatsoever. How did Jeep lose 2 mpg by adding a hybrid system? At worst it should be the same and since it should have full hybrid mode it should gain at least 2mpg city (maybe even 5-8mpg) vs the non-hybrid models.
Weight is the reason. The hybrid isn't for everyone just like the diesel isn't for everyone. They both can be very good in the areas they were designed to handle. Many want the torque at a cheaper cost than the diesel and the 392. Others drive less than 20 miles in a day making the gas mileage way above what the EPA states. Everyone now has more options to choose a jeep which fits their lifestyle. It is a win for everyone and not a competition between motors.
 

Demonic

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The 20 MPG is in hybrid mode. I know people are getting confused with gas only but the hybrid mode is the normal mode for the jeep. I actually read in one of the EPA reports. A couple things confirm this also. One is the city and hwy mileage are the same. This would not be in a all gas rig. Second is multiply the tank size by 20 and add the all electric range. You are almost exactly the total range given for the 4xe.
Do you have a link? The .gov site I’m looking at shows 20mpg with the black arrow from the range bar saying “gasoline only” after depleting electric charge.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43801
 

Shasta_Steve

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Do you have a link? The .gov site I’m looking at shows 20mpg with the black arrow from the range bar saying “gasoline only” after depleting electric charge.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=43801
I will try and find it again. They were describing how they did the testing. If you click on the link you posted, right by total range, you will see this when you click on the I.

"

This vehicle did not use any gasoline for the first 22 miles in EPA tests. It may use gasoline depending on how you drive.

When fully charged, you will pay about 8.8¢ per mile for the first 22 miles you drive ($1.94 for the electricity and $.00 for the gasoline).

After the first 22 miles, the vehicle will function like a regular hybrid and consume only gasoline, costing about 14.4¢/mile."


While I have stated I think that many are vastly overstating the "green" value of this Jeep. I don't think all is lost. Most all of my Wife's driving and even mine if I was using this to go to work, would be all electric. If I charge at night then it will cost me about $1.50 to go 21 miles. So roughly about the same as a gallon on gas. Utility here gives you a discount of 1.5 cents a KW from midnight to 6 am if you have an electric car. Rates change Summer to Winter but will average a little less than 10 cents at that time.

Also I am interested in just what Jeep they used for testing. I am pretty sure they use base model jeeps for their normal gas engines. They are pretty stripped down as far as weight and run smaller tires. The Sahara only runs slightly larger tires than the sport models but they are bigger. I am going to bet that in the real world the 4xe Rubicon's will do just as well, if not better than the gas Rubicon's. The electric assist should be better for getting the bigger tires turning.

Lastly Jeep could of gone a couple different directions with the 4xe. They could of significantly increased MPG by going with a smaller engine. They still could of ended up with very similar HP and Torque numbers to the normal gas engines. I am betting that they figured that we would of rather had the HP and Torque at the expense of fuel economy.
 

Demonic

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From the EPA website:
“PHEVs typically have driving ranges that are comparable to gasoline vehicles. PHEVs have two fuel economy values: one for when the vehicle operates primarily on electricity (listed in terms of MPGe), and one for when the vehicle operates only on gasoline (listed as MPG).”

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/explaining-electric-plug-hybrid-electric-vehicles

Not trying to argue, just interested in figuring out how they actually measure.
 

Sboden

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I'm happy they went that way. Hp/torque
 

Shasta_Steve

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From the EPA website:
“PHEVs typically have driving ranges that are comparable to gasoline vehicles. PHEVs have two fuel economy values: one for when the vehicle operates primarily on electricity (listed in terms of MPGe), and one for when the vehicle operates only on gasoline (listed as MPG).”

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/explaining-electric-plug-hybrid-electric-vehicles

Not trying to argue, just interested in figuring out how they actually measure.
No I get it and it is confusing. I think the thing that messes everyone up is the term "gasoline only". If you think about it a non plug in Prius is gasoline only. It gets all of its energy from gasoline. What it does is recoup and store some of that energy for later use but has no external source of energy. That is why most hybrids do great in stop and go driving but don't do tremendously better than non hybrids on the open road.

My buddies hybrid Camry does much better on the open road but Toyota went with a less powerful gas motor in the hybrid than the gas only.
 

4x4PNW

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The 20 MPG is in hybrid mode. I know people are getting confused with gas only but the hybrid mode is the normal mode for the jeep. I actually read in one of the EPA reports. A couple things confirm this also. One is the city and hwy mileage are the same. This would not be in a all gas rig. Second is multiply the tank size by 20 and add the all electric range. You are almost exactly the total range given for the 4xe.

There is no doubt that the diesel will go farther and the diesel has advantages over a traditional gas engine for off-roading but in my mind the hybrid should have most all those advantages plus. With the difference in price, cost of diesel vs gas and the cost to maintain a diesel there is no way that the extra MPG of a diesel will ever bridge the gap. Not even close.

Now the elephant in the room is the hybrid is pretty much unproven technology. I completely understand why people will want to avoid it for a couple years. Diesel engines can, and often do, run just about forever. I recently sold my 7.3 Ford after 18 years and basically put nothing other than basic maintenance in the motor. The Eco Diesel has had it's issues in other platforms but sounds like they are getting them fixed.
I agree that if we’re discussing which will go the most miles without adding any energy (fuel or electric) the eco-diesel will win. However, if the question is the amount of time or miles between needing fuel, or monthly fuel usage, other variables will determine that (miles driven per day, nightly charge, hybrid mode). With nightly electric recharging and shorter daily trips the 4xe should use significantly less fuel than the others... with more HP and torque
 

4x4PNW

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The 20 MPG is in hybrid mode. I know people are getting confused with gas only but the hybrid mode is the normal mode for the jeep. I actually read in one of the EPA reports. A couple things confirm this also. One is the city and hwy mileage are the same. This would not be in a all gas rig. Second is multiply the tank size by 20 and add the all electric range. You are almost exactly the total range given for the 4xe.

There is no doubt that the diesel will go farther and the diesel has advantages over a traditional gas engine for off-roading but in my mind the hybrid should have most all those advantages plus. With the difference in price, cost of diesel vs gas and the cost to maintain a diesel there is no way that the extra MPG of a diesel will ever bridge the gap. Not even close.

Now the elephant in the room is the hybrid is pretty much unproven technology. I completely understand why people will want to avoid it for a couple years. Diesel engines can, and often do, run just about forever. I recently sold my 7.3 Ford after 18 years and basically put nothing other than basic maintenance in the motor. The Eco Diesel has had it's issues in other platforms but sounds like they are getting them fixed.
I am concerned with the hybrid tech being so new. I’m hoping they worked out some of the kinks in the Pacifica which has been out a few years now.
 

Jonnie4xe

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Having read all of the above, I still think this table I created provides decent guidance.

capture-png.png



That is, if you are driving around 60 miles in a typical day you are getting the equivalent of around 30 MPG factoring a fully charged battery. Not sure if you need to run all electric at first or not to get this number, but the data makes sense to me and shows that for the vast majority of trips the 4xe is the most efficient way to go. If you are doing a lot of long drives at 2x this distance or more, this is not the Jeep for you unless you are looking at torque only.
 

Shasta_Steve

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Having read all of the above, I still think this table I created provides decent guidance.

capture-png.png



That is, if you are driving around 60 miles in a typical day you are getting the equivalent of around 30 MPG factoring a fully charged battery. Not sure if you need to run all electric at first or not to get this number, but the data makes sense to me and shows that for the vast majority of trips the 4xe is the most efficient way to go. If you are doing a lot of long drives at 2x this distance or more, this is not the Jeep for you unless you are looking at torque only.
I agree that most people will get very high MPG on a day to day basis.( for a Jeep) We are just all different on how we are going to use the Jeep. I am buying this for my wife, okay for me too, but it will be her day to day driver. She will almost never use the battery up. If someone is using it for a long commute then they will see a lot worse.

Another factor on here I see is almost no one is factoring in the price of electricity. Looks like the all electric portion of the battery is 15kw. We have high rates here in California, although the utility I am on is much cheaper than some. If I charge at night I can average 10 cents a kw or a little less than $1.50 a gallon of gas equivalent. Now if I were to charge at peak rates in the summer the cost of electricity is 31 cents or about $4.50 a gallon equivalent. Of course I do have the ability to choose the best time.

I know some have access to "free" electricity but it is a cost and should be factored into ones overall decision.
 

Oilburner

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Here's my version of the math based only on gasoline consumption.
1st 20 mi = 'free'
30 mi = 30-20free miles = 10 miles burning gas/20mpg = .5 gallons used.
30 total miles traveled / .5 gal = 60mpg
etc -

4xe.PNG
 

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