2020 Wrangler Engine Catches Fire, Vehicle Burns

[DanW]

Thanks, I've read the notice. The question is what the "ignition sources" are. My understanding was it was a fuel line, although I can't recall why. I'm not sure what else it could be, as I didn't think the 6MT had a cooler and the only other fluid lines running aft of the flywheel to my knowledge (in the whole vehicle) would be fuel line(s), brake line(s) and a washer fluid line.

It does not have a cooler and doesn't need one. If functioning properly, they'd never see enough heat to justify it. Some of the manuals' slave cylinders were reportedly not bled properly at the factory, causing slipping of the clutch plates which created the heat. Ultimately, it was reported that the heat got as high as 1400 degrees! That's when they went to pieces. So there were three issues supposedly addressed with the recall. Check and properly bleed the slave cylinder, check the clutch for signs of wear, (replace if it fails the wear test) and add a protective sleeve and possible other small parts to the brake/clutch fluid line leading into the master cylinder reservoir.

There were only a very small number reported to have had the catastrophic failure causing the fire, but clearly the chain of events could get there, and did in a few extreme cases.

The biggest correction for later manual transmissions was likely simply in the proper bleeding procedure and quality checks on the assembly line, plus the small protective sleeve and parts. The transmission, slave cylinder, clutch and housing design do not appear to be flawed, in and of themselves.

This might not all be 100% accurate. It is what I've gathered from various sources. So don't take it as gospel. But it makes sense and supports what the Jeep tech discussed with me when they did the recall work on mine.

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[xeon]

At first glance, I initially thought this photo was faked or had parts removed prior to the photo. Then watching this thread I started looking at lots of photos of burnt cars. At first inspection, I saw complete shells of cars...and wonder how did that jeep so bad. Modifying the search to more recent cars that have aluminum body panels such as the F150 you quickly find that many new cars burn this way when there is an engine fire. Further research finds the average engine car fire will get to about 1500F. The melting temperature of aluminum as well as magnesium about 1210.
So that explains all the missing panels. What I found more interesting is a car fire only takes about 13 minutes to consume and destroy the entire car. Yikes. A great reason to have some fire extinguishers on board.

 

[COBill]

At first glance, I initially thought this photo was faked or had parts removed prior to the photo. Then watching this thread I started looking at lots of photos of burnt cars. At first inspection, I saw complete shells of cars...and wonder how did that jeep so bad. Modifying the search to more recent cars that have aluminum body panels such as the F150 you quickly find that many new cars burn this way when there is an engine fire. Further research finds the average engine car fire will get to about 1500F. The melting temperature of aluminum as well as magnesium about 1210.
So that explains all the missing panels. What I found more interesting is a car fire only takes about 13 minutes to consume and destroy the entire car. Yikes. A great reason to have some fire extinguishers on board.

Indeed, the video of the Coyote Works Rubicon fire shows that really well.

 

[NMPirate]

It's obvious that this person ordered the "Total Destruction Package" from the factory. It's a bit expensive but you only get to use it once.

 

[No IFS]

Something to do with E torque or the 48V system. The 2.0 were burning in the parking lot when they first came out. FCA Quality and wiring don't mix well.

 

[Petey]

The 6 speed has a transmission cooler? My understanding was the fuel lines were getting severed.

Yes the only logical thing . manuals don't have oil coolers

 

[Petey]

It does not have a cooler and doesn't need one. If functioning properly, they'd never see enough heat to justify it. Some of the manuals' slave cylinders were reportedly not bled properly at the factory, causing slipping of the clutch plates which created the heat. Ultimately, it was reported that the heat got as high as 1400 degrees! That's when they went to pieces. So there were three issues supposedly addressed with the recall. Check and properly bleed the slave cylinder, check the clutch for signs of wear, (replace if it fails the wear test) and add a protective sleeve and possible other small parts to the brake/clutch fluid line leading into the master cylinder reservoir.

There were only a very small number reported to have had the catastrophic failure causing the fire, but clearly the chain of events could get there, and did in a few extreme cases.

The biggest correction for later manual transmissions was likely simply in the proper bleeding procedure and quality checks on the assembly line, plus the small protective sleeve and parts. The transmission, slave cylinder, clutch and housing design do not appear to be flawed, in and of themselves.

This might not all be 100% accurate. It is what I've gathered from various sources. So don't take it as gospel. But it makes sense and supports what the Jeep tech discussed with me when they did the recall work on mine.

that just don't make sense .. don't want to contradict you but air in the system is not what holds the clutch onto the flywheel.. the pressure plate job is to do this. If u have air in the system u will have effectively longer travel of the pedal before the bearing lifts it to release the friction disc..if too much air then u won't be able to put it in gear in the first place. If a mechanic told u something like this ...just wow...

 

[DanW]

that just don't make sense .. don't want to contradict you but air in the system is not what holds the clutch onto the flywheel.. the pressure plate job is to do this. If u have air in the system u will have effectively longer travel of the pedal before the bearing lifts it to release the friction disc..if too much air then u won't be able to put it in gear in the first place. If a mechanic told u something like this ...just wow...

The way I understand it is that when depressing the clutch pedal, it is not fully disengaging the clutch from the pressure plate because of the air bubbles in the system. That's when the excessive heat is being generated. So you'd be sitting at a stoplight with the clutch depressed, not realizing you are wearing your clutch out and generating tremendous heat. It was only partially disengaged with some rubbing. So you could indeed change gears. If you couldn't, then the problem would not have progressed enough to cause the big failures. The slipping that occurs later, at speed and while in gear is after much wear has already occurred so badly that the clutch can't hold. That generated even more heat. So that's why air in the system is causing the clutch to wear. It isn't holding it back when in gear and the clutch is out, but rather is not letting it fully disengage. Sorry if I made it sound like the air was causing the slipping. That's not at all what I meant. I just didn't want to get into that level of detail.

The tech was not the only one that told me that, btw. And it is a fact that improper bleeding was the primary and root cause. Both the tech and an FCA rep told me that, and I read it, too. Multiple sources. I wouldn't take just a tech's word for it. But what he said was consistent with the other sources. So after properly bleeding, they then put parts in place to prevent the flying metal from cutting the hydraulic lines to the reservior. That's part 2 of the fix. Part 3 is if your clutch was worn out and they needed to replace it.

The catastrophic failure that ultimately happened to a few of them was after the damage was already done and due to the heat compromising the pressure plate and causing it to ultimately come apart while at speed.

 

[Notorious]

A great reason to have some fire extinguishers on board.

True.

Also a very good preemptive reminder to be careful of who you let work on your Jeep. Sometimes even if that person is you.

 

[Petey]

The way I understand it is that when depressing the clutch pedal, it is not fully disengaging the clutch from the pressure plate because of the air bubbles in the system. That's when the excessive heat is being generated. So you'd be sitting at a stoplight with the clutch depressed, not realizing you are wearing your clutch out and generating tremendous heat. It was only partially disengaged with some rubbing. So you could indeed change gears. If you couldn't, then the problem would not have progressed enough to cause the big failures. The slipping that occurs later, at speed and while in gear is after much wear has already occurred so badly that the clutch can't hold. That generated even more heat. So that's why air in the system is causing the clutch to wear. It isn't holding it back when in gear and the clutch is out, but rather is not letting it fully disengage. Sorry if I made it sound like the air was causing the slipping. That's not at all what I meant. I just didn't want to get into that level of detail.

The tech was not the only one that told me that, btw. And it is a fact that improper bleeding was the primary and root cause. Both the tech and an FCA rep told me that, and I read it, too. Multiple sources. I wouldn't take just a tech's word for it. But what he said was consistent with the other sources. So after properly bleeding, they then put parts in place to prevent the flying metal from cutting the hydraulic lines to the reservior. That's part 2 of the fix. Part 3 is if your clutch was worn out and they needed to replace it.

The catastrophic failure that ultimately happened to a few of them was after the damage was already done and due to the heat compromising the pressure plate and causing it to ultimately come apart while at speed.

If u have air in the system ..and this sometimes depends on how much ..low fluid ..same thing in this case .. u would or should feel it in the pedal and difficulty in shifting ...especially from dead stop into 1st gear. It usually makes the car feel unbearable. Yes , when u engage the pedal and try to put in gear u might even get gear grind because this case would make it similar like riding on the clutch. If ur on a red light in this case there would be some rubbing on the friction disc which should actually be felt by the car going forward...unless ur using brakes at the same time. And i have to agree with the fact once u get to a certain point the friction material will blow from the slightest overheating but the pressure plate should never blow ..the weak link should be the friction disc always. It's made of less dense material and less likely to blow through a bell housing. These cars are relatively new and if manufacturers defect barred , then it would be the users fault of improper usage. The thing is if the dealer told u it was low fluid then all of these problems should have been apparent almost directly from the car lot. I've got a feeling they dont want to admit to a pressure plate problem.

 

[Petey]

The way I understand it is that when depressing the clutch pedal, it is not fully disengaging the clutch from the pressure plate because of the air bubbles in the system. That's when the excessive heat is being generated. So you'd be sitting at a stoplight with the clutch depressed, not realizing you are wearing your clutch out and generating tremendous heat. It was only partially disengaged with some rubbing. So you could indeed change gears. If you couldn't, then the problem would not have progressed enough to cause the big failures. The slipping that occurs later, at speed and while in gear is after much wear has already occurred so badly that the clutch can't hold. That generated even more heat. So that's why air in the system is causing the clutch to wear. It isn't holding it back when in gear and the clutch is out, but rather is not letting it fully disengage. Sorry if I made it sound like the air was causing the slipping. That's not at all what I meant. I just didn't want to get into that level of detail.

The tech was not the only one that told me that, btw. And it is a fact that improper bleeding was the primary and root cause. Both the tech and an FCA rep told me that, and I read it, too. Multiple sources. I wouldn't take just a tech's word for it. But what he said was consistent with the other sources. So after properly bleeding, they then put parts in place to prevent the flying metal from cutting the hydraulic lines to the reservior. That's part 2 of the fix.

The catastrophic failure that ultimately happened to a few of them was after the damage was already done and due to the heat compromising the pressure plate and causing it to ultimately come apart while at speed.

Part 3 is if your clutch was worn out and they needed to replace it. .......u know this got me thinking ..would they actually replace the clutch assembly if they deem it worn ...even if it might have a few thousand miles on it?

 

[jeep0]

I have two fire extinguishers mounted in my JL. One is to help anyone who needs it, the other is only for my Jeep. You can't be too careful.

 

[DanW]

If u have air in the system ..and this sometimes depends on how much ..low fluid ..same thing in this case .. u would or should feel it in the pedal and difficulty in shifting ...especially from dead stop into 1st gear. It usually makes the car feel unbearable. Yes , when u engage the pedal and try to put in gear u might even get gear grind because this case would make it similar like riding on the clutch. If ur on a red light in this case there would be some rubbing on the friction disc which should actually be felt by the car going forward...unless ur using brakes at the same time. And i have to agree with the fact once u get to a certain point the friction material will blow from the slightest overheating but the pressure plate should never blow ..the weak link should be the friction disc always. It's made of less dense material and less likely to blow through a bell housing. These cars are relatively new and if manufacturers defect barred , then it would be the users fault of improper usage. The thing is if the dealer told u it was low fluid then all of these problems should have been apparent almost directly from the car lot. I've got a feeling they dont want to admit to a pressure plate problem.

If it is the pressure plate, then the recall would have required replacement of it. There isn't any affordable pressure plate that can survive that kind of extreme heat, so it makes sense that it was not identified as needing replaced. That recall would have taken forever if it did need replaced. I'm thankful it did not. It took long enough, as-is.

As far as being noticed, maybe it was by a number of folks. We aren't privy to data on how many brought their manuals in and complained about how they felt. We only know of a couple of them that burned to the ground as a result. And those drivers clearly didn't know something was wrong, or if they did, they just didn't act on it in time. Also, there were plenty of experienced manual drivers, some of whom are on this forum, who had a clutch that was found to be worn with the recall test procedure. I remember one saying he was surprised to see his clutch get replaced because it felt normal. When he got his Jeep back they told him it failed the clutch test and they installed a new one.

Mine felt fine and passed the test. I would have been surprised if it did not because it felt fine before. I actually did the test before taking it in and it stalled the engine immediately, indicating that it was not worn. I did that because I wanted to be 100% sure. I did thatso if I found it to fail and they said it passed, I would be able to challenge them on that, to be sure it would be replaced on their dime. But it was fine, and remains fine. They still bled it according to the recall requirements (or so they said) and installed the sleeve.

And since the recall, the problem seems to have disappeared. On top of all that, the NHSTA was looking over FCA's shoulder and was prepared to force a recall if they didn't do it voluntarily. They would have had one helluva time hiding a defective pressure plate form them. And the problem would still be occurring.

Again, disclaimer. I'm no engineer. I'm just repeating what I've read and been told after studying it and experiencing the recall. But what I've read and heard from multiple sources is consistent. So I've accepted it as truth and case closed. But that's an individual decision, and I respect other opinions on it. Meanwhile, my clutch just passed the 40k mile mark and feels just like the day I drove it off the lot. And I tow with it, too. My Jeep was from one of the earliest production batches of manual transmissions. So if there was a major design defect, mine would be affected, for sure.

 

[DanW]

Part 3 is if your clutch was worn out and they needed to replace it. .......u know this got me thinking ..would they actually replace the clutch assembly if they deem it worn ...even if it might have a few thousand miles on it?

They did replace clutches that were worn. I wouldn't have a clue as to whether they looked at any other parts, but I'd guess they'd use a clutch replacement kit or package that included any other wear prone parts. But I really don't know.

My worry was if the techs would actually precisely follow the clutch test procedure. Or if they'd actualy do it at all. I could see a tech who considers himself skilled with manual transmissions just driving it around and proclaiming it fine, without doing the procedure. Again, that's why I did mine myself, first. And it wasn't pleasant. It's a very harsh test, but it does make sense in how it is used to determine a worn clutch.

If I recall correctly, you set the parking brake, put the transmission in 3rd gear (or maybe 4th. I can't remember), take the engine to 4k or maybe 4500k and then dump the clutch. If the engine stalls immediately then the clutch is good. If it does anything but stall immediately, it is worn. Mine died instantly. No shudder or slip. Man did I HATE doing that to my Jeep, though. I felt terrible abusing it that way. I felt worse knowing they were likely to do it again. But I did it for certainty and peace of mind.

 

[RoadiJeff]

We got our 2020 Recon back from the dealer two days ago. They kept it for 8 days when we took it in because of a strong fuel smell in the garage. No fuel smell when it wasn't in the garage, so that pretty much narrowed down the source. No puddles on the floor, no obvious leak under the hood with engine running, just that strong smell when parked.

After 8 days, they called and said it's ready. They had been in contact with Chrysler back and forth, trying to pinpoint the cause. They admitted they could smell it, too. Chrysler had them remove the charcoal canister and weigh it to see if it was soaked with gas (it wasn't). They did replace some valve but I think they just did that to say they fixed something.

The service advisor said it is common to have fuel smells in colder weather. I think that's a bunch of bs or I would be reading about it all over the forums.

No fuel smell yet since we brought it home but it had less than 1/4 tank of fuel when we got it. It was nearly half full when we dropped it off.

I'm just hoping our 7 month old Recon doesn't end up like the Jeep in this thread someday. It's my wife's dd and she says she is monitoring things carefully.

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