2020 JLUR Diesel Curb Weight

Themistocles

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This issue is undoubtedly my biggest pet peeve with this vehicle as I will undoubtedly load this vehicle up beyond the GVWR at some point, and I'll bet some folks have already done so.

What will be the consequence of upgrading body armor, upsizing wheels and tires to 37+ inches, roof racks, tents, reserve fuel tanks, PLUS a full compliment of passengers, tools, and coolers? Factor in 350 lbs of tongue weight from a trailer and you've easily added 1200 lbs and exceeded the GVWR by 600+ lbs. My bet is that the Jeep COULD handle it, but what do I know?
Agree, my math puts a well set up JLURD with passengers at 6100 - 6200 at about minimum and an overlander at more like 6400 - 6700. A good suspension with Fox or Falcon's might cover the dynamic stability. Maybe add axle trusses, upgraded braking...

Though the weight is annoying, I will say, I took the kids out and did a local Badge of Honor trail today. Main trail was crazy easy, but I took a few small side trails that were much less so. JLURD did a couple lines that my very well set up Ram (used as chase, support, and rescue vehicle in Baja series, Best in the Desert series, and Mojave Desert Race Association) would not have been able to complete. JLURD did them like I was driving over a mall curb...didn't even spin a tire.





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kosinar

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Agree, my math puts a well set up JLURD with passengers at 6100 - 6200 at about minimum and an overlander at more like 6400 - 6700. A good suspension with Fox or Falcon's might cover the dynamic stability. Maybe add axle trusses, upgraded braking...

Though the weight is annoying, I will say, I took the kids out and did a local Badge of Honor trail today. Main trail was crazy easy, but I took a few small side trails that were much less so. JLURD did a couple lines that my very well set up Ram (used as chase, support, and rescue vehicle in Baja series, Best in the Desert series, and Mojave Desert Race Association) would not have been able to complete. JLURD did them like I was driving over a mall curb...didn't even spin a tire.
Just for reference.
Actual weight of my Rubicon Diesel with 2” Mopar lift, KMC KM235 Bead lock wheels, 37” Coopers, LOD rock slides, warn S10 Winch is 5,540.00 lb. I took it to the scale to know for sure.
 

Themistocles

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Just for reference.
Actual weight of my Rubicon Diesel with 2” Mopar lift, KMC KM235 Bead lock wheels, 37” Coopers, LOD rock slides, warn S10 Winch is 5,540.00 lb. I took it to the scale to know for sure.
That sounds about right. Now add two adults and you are at about 5900. Add steel bumpers and you are at 6100 - 6200. Add belly armor and you are at 6300 - 6400. Add a roof rack and your are around 6500.... Then consider, onboard air, tools, recovery gear, first aid stuff, a cooler, comms equipment, a tailgate brace, lights, a fire extinguisher or two, maybe a kid or two, and 66-68 is easily reachable.
 
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These weight numbers for this rig are insane given its size, they are truly built like a tank. Go around one and tap on the panels and use a magnet and there is only one panel that is steel. The rest are either plastic or aluminium. Look at the linkage up front and it looks like it's off a 1 ton truck. If I hadn't been simply curious about weight, I'd never guess from the performance and fuel milage it was so heavy. Pulling a trailer though, I feel better that at near max capacity, it's a "substantial" tow vehicle.

Now think about this...over in the Trailer and Towing forum, everyone is all worked up about towing trailers over the 3500 max rating for fear of legal issues and litigation in case of an accident. Ok, fine...But now we know the GVWR, and we "intentionally" overload the vehicle with gear and such, are we now opening ourselves up to another can-o-worms??

We all know how insurance companies love to pay out claims and to what extent they will go to make us culpable. Heaven help us to never have to find out...
 

Kevin Mojito

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Well, here's a follow-up...

I wanted to double check the weight from the dump so I ran it across the CAT certified scales at the truck stop. Conditions were nearly identical...fuel, me and the dog.

It came in at 5460 lbs.

With the door sticker GWR at 6100 lbs, ya better weigh your lunch before packing for a long trip...LOL

Honestly, the diesel has so much poop, the rig does not FEEL heavy. Additionally, pulling a trailer near the 3500 lb limit with a sway bar and EQ bars, it feels great and the truck out-weighs the trailer substantially.

Jeep Weight.jpg

WOW that's a chunky monkey!!

My JLUR 3.6 / AT loaded ( hard top, steel bumpers, tow, everything ) was under 4800. I have added lift tires/wheels/ compressor / fire extinguisher / 12k winch / tools / rubber mats / sound deadener / and more. Now 5450.

You guys/gals are going to be over 6100 without people and luggage.........
 

ItsNo4RE

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WOW that's a chunky monkey!!

My JLUR 3.6 / AT loaded ( hard top, steel bumpers, tow, everything ) was under 4800. I have added lift tires/wheels/ compressor / fire extinguisher / 12k winch / tools / rubber mats / sound deadener / and more. Now 5450.

You guys/gals are going to be over 6100 without people and luggage.........

Yep, and the tq to haul it! Once the egr/dpf delete becomes available about 150lbs comes off plus even more tq and hp
 

Themistocles

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WOW that's a chunky monkey!!

My JLUR 3.6 / AT loaded ( hard top, steel bumpers, tow, everything ) was under 4800. I have added lift tires/wheels/ compressor / fire extinguisher / 12k winch / tools / rubber mats / sound deadener / and more. Now 5450.

You guys/gals are going to be over 6100 without people and luggage.........
Exactly...which is why it just makes me crazy when MetalCloak and a few other suspension companies say that 3.6 springs will work just fine on a diesel. The JLURD is going to need springs with a rate of 175 - 200 unless my math is very wrong. It isn't just about ride height. Sure you could stuff 3.5 or 4.5 springs (depending on spring rate and load) in and get your 2.5 inch of lift for the diesel. But now we have less room for compression, the dynamic load stability is reduced, and we are encountering our bump stops more frequently. That is not the trail vehicle I want.... On the flip side, the 25+ mpg at 75 mph (with 400+lbs of people, bumpers, tools, a cooler, and on 35's) I got on the way to the trail yesterday was amazing. So was essentially idling up a 25% hill with big holes and twists. I love the diesel, I have been waiting nearly a decade for this vehicle and am thrilled with its performance (would be more thrilled if I could rip off much of the emission stuff...but I get NoX bad), but we need some suspension and aftermarket companies to step up and help get the most out of this chunky monkey...and saying "...aww all the 3.6 stuff should be fine" is not the way to do that.
 
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rustyshakelford

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Exactly...which is why it just makes me crazy when MetalCloak and a few other suspension companies say that 3.6 springs will work just fine on a diesel. The JLURD is going to need springs with a rate of 175 - 200 unless my math is very wrong. It isn't just about ride height. Sure you could stuff 3.5 or 4.5 springs (depending on spring rate and load) in and get your 2.5 inch of lift for the diesel. But now we have less room for compression, the dynamic load stability is reduced, and we are encountering our bump stops more frequently. That is not the trail vehicle I want.... On the flip side, the 25+ mpg at 75 mph (with 400+lbs of people, bumpers, tools, a cooler, and on 35's) I got on the way to the trail yesterday was amazing. So was essentially idling up a 25% hill with big holes and twists. I love the diesel, I have been waiting nearly a decade for this vehicle and am thrilled with its performance (would be more thrilled if I could rip off much of the emission stuff...but I get NoX bad), but we need some suspension and aftermarket companies to step up and help get the most out of this chunky monkey...and saying "...aww all the 3.6 stuff should be fine" is not the way to do that.
MC has done the math. The diesel comes out to right around 70 lbs heavier on each corner. That results in approx .5” less height than on the gas. There really isn’t anything earth shattering on the diesels from that stand point. We’re doing a 3.5 GC right now in the shop with fox 2.5s. From their stand point I’m sure it doesn’t pencil out for the R&D needed for the units expected to sell.

brett
 

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MC has done the math. The diesel comes out to right around 70 lbs heavier on each corner. That results in approx .5” less height than on the gas. There really isn’t anything earth shattering on the diesels from that stand point. We’re doing a 3.5 GC right now in the shop with fox 2.5s. From their stand point I’m sure it doesn’t pencil out for the R&D needed for the units expected to sell.

brett
Yeah, I have spent a couple hours on the phone with them...that is the same answer I have gotten. But the math just doesn't work. 70lbs heavier at each corner is 280lbs total added weight. By FCA's own numbers the actual is about 400lbs. That means about 100lbs at each corner. And CAT scales for curb weight of actual JLURDs are coming in a bit heavier. Also, according to the CAT scales the weight is not distributed evenly to each corner, it is nose heavy by a good bit.

What MC told me was that a well set-up 3.6 (bumpers, winch, armor, etc) came in a bit lighter than a stock JLURD...and they designed their system for a set-up versus stock 3.6. Thus their system would come it at .25 to .5 inches lower on a stock JLURD than it would on a set-up 3.6.

All that makes sense...except they designed their systems for a set-up 3.6 versus a stock 3.6 for a reason...nobody who is going to put a 3-5K suspension on vehicle is going to leave the rest stock. So a 3.6 owner gets a system purposely designed to manage the added weight of all the stuff we stick on our vehicles. The 3.0D owner does not. If it was just ride height I cared about sure, stick in longer springs or throw in some spacers...but it isn't just ride height that is the issue. The right spring rate also has a substantial influence on dynamic stability, it helps control compression, etc. FCA has added about 10% to the OEM SR for diesels. Also RK, Evo, and kind of Clayton, have changed SR for diesels...
 

kosinar

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That sounds about right. Now add two adults and you are at about 5900. Add steel bumpers and you are at 6100 - 6200. Add belly armor and you are at 6300 - 6400. Add a roof rack and your are around 6500.... Then consider, onboard air, tools, recovery gear, first aid stuff, a cooler, comms equipment, a tailgate brace, lights, a fire extinguisher or two, maybe a kid or two, and 66-68 is easily reachable.
Oops. Omitted list steel bumper.
 

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Oops. Omitted list steel bumper.
I am guessing you have hard top, so you will start out at about 5200. Then add 565lbs for your tires and wheels, but subtract your stock weight of a little less than 500 lbs. So say you gained 70lbs in tires and wheels. That takes you to 5270. Then the LOD rock sliders are 100lbs, but the factory JLUR rock sliders are about 50 lbs. So say a gain of 50lbs. This puts you at 5320lbs. A Warn Zeon 10S is 80.4lbs. This takes you to 5400lbs. You didn't say which steel bumper you had, but I will guess an LOD destroyer, which weighs about 70lbs (midwidth). Or you could mean the OEM steel which weighs 78lbs. So about 30 - 40lbs heavier than the OEM plastic. Meaning you should be at about 5440. There is another 100lbs in there somewhere. So either you have additional equipment (tools, recovery gear etc, in the back, lights, etc...or maybe you have a rear steel bumper as well) or maybe you weighed with yourself in the vehicle. Also fuel tank can have a fairly big impact. A full tank of diesel weights about 7lbs/gallon so about 140lbs for the tank. Would need to know if you weighed empty, half, full, etc.

There are lots of choices. For example, go with a Road Armor rear steel bumper with swing arm, and you add 254lbs to your vehicle right there. A front and rear Road Armor set of steel bumpers could easily add 400+lbs to your vehicle. Now go with LOD steel and you are down to about 150 or 160. The Rock Hard Skid Plate System comes in at about 260lbs (adds 200lbs after factory skids are removed). Select aluminum skids and you might only gain 10 - 20lbs. A Gobi roof rack will add about 100lbs maybe a bit more as used...other racks could add upwards of 200lbs.

Where you are now, 5540lbs, you have 560Lbs left before you hit GVWR. Two adults will put you at about around 5900 (depending on the adults), add a kid or two and you are at GVWR. And there is still easily 300 - 600 lbs worth of additional trail gear to add in what would be considered a fairly standard set up. Roof rack + 100, Skid system + 150, rear swing arm brace +75, rear interior deck + 75, tool box + 50, Recovery gear + 25, cooler + 25, ARB onboard air and fitting + 25, 5 gallons diesel + 35, 5 gallons water +30. Just that list puts us at +590lbs. Starting only a hundred or so shy of GVWR for 2 people or at GVWR for two adults and two kids.
 

rustyshakelford

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Yeah, I have spent a couple hours on the phone with them...that is the same answer I have gotten. But the math just doesn't work. 70lbs heavier at each corner is 280lbs total added weight. By FCA's own numbers the actual is about 400lbs. That means about 100lbs at each corner. And CAT scales for curb weight of actual JLURDs are coming in a bit heavier. Also, according to the CAT scales the weight is not distributed evenly to each corner, it is nose heavy by a good bit.

What MC told me was that a well set-up 3.6 (bumpers, winch, armor, etc) came in a bit lighter than a stock JLURD...and they designed their system for a set-up versus stock 3.6. Thus their system would come it at .25 to .5 inches lower on a stock JLURD than it would on a set-up 3.6.

All that makes sense...except they designed their systems for a set-up 3.6 versus a stock 3.6 for a reason...nobody who is going to put a 3-5K suspension on vehicle is going to leave the rest stock. So a 3.6 owner gets a system purposely designed to manage the added weight of all the stuff we stick on our vehicles. The 3.0D owner does not. If it was just ride height I cared about sure, stick in longer springs or throw in some spacers...but it isn't just ride height that is the issue. The right spring rate also has a substantial influence on dynamic stability, it helps control compression, etc. FCA has added about 10% to the OEM SR for diesels. Also RK, Evo, and kind of Clayton, have changed SR for diesels...
technically the 2.0 could’ve gotten different springs too to accommodate for the battery on the drivers rear. There are so many variable and options the aftermarket has to eventually say enough is enough. I’ve never in my life seen so many powertrain options for the wranglers and in my opinion its become ridiculous and from my standpoint difficult to keep up with. I’ve had some jeeps come in that have “diesel specific springs” from home installs or from other shops and every time the part number comes out to a gasser spring just and inch higher than what theirs was advertised at. Example was a 4.5” gasser spring on their 3.5” diesel specific lift. i don’t know what the answer is but the cost to develop new coils and the testing that follows would be hard to justify for .5”in my mind.

like someone else mentioned, adding a heavy bumper and winch along with other accessories is a quick way to get on track with a diesel. the big question is how much will is settle when that’s added to the diesel

brett
 

Themistocles

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technically the 2.0 could’ve gotten different springs too to accommodate for the battery on the drivers rear. There are so many variable and options the aftermarket has to eventually say enough is enough. I’ve never in my life seen so many powertrain options for the wranglers and in my opinion its become ridiculous and from my standpoint difficult to keep up with. I’ve had some jeeps come in that have “diesel specific springs” from home instaalls or from other shops and every time the part number comes out to a gasser spring just and inch higher than what theirs was advertised at. Example was a 4.5” gasser spring on their 3.5” diesel specific lift. i don’t know what the answer is but the cost to develop new coils and the testing that follows would be hard to justify for .5”in my mind.

like someone else mentioned, adding a heavy bumper and winch along with other accessories is a quick way to get on track with a diesel. the big question is how much will is settle when that’s added to the diesel

brett
I agree I suspect many are doing exactly as you say. I know Clayton is using a linear 188 SR 3.5 front in their 2.5 diesel specific kit along with a standard 2.5 dual-rate rear. The OEM 2" kit does come with diesel specific part-numbers, but I have been unable to find out what the spring rates are for them. Everything I have read says about 10% stiffer, meaning between 150 and 160 SR. According to Rock Krawler they have developed a diesel specific 175 SR (at ride height) dual-rate front for the diesel and are combining that with a standard 175 SR (at ride height) dual-rate rear to make their diesel specific kit. I have been totally unable to convince EVO to give me any info...besides their assurance the kit is specific to the diesel.

I totally get the business case. If there is not the market out there, then logically the R&D costs aren't worth it. But there is also the intangible benefits of creating and reinforcing brand loyalty & trust. MC has a phenomenal reputation. At least from my perspective if they step up and take care of diesel owners, they have earned a loyal customer and somebody who will recommend them in the future. Also, springs are not the big cost items in a kit. I for one, would be willing to pay a premium for a real MC diesel specific spring built and tested for a diesel. I would bet that most other diesel owners would as well as long as MC was open and honest about the deal. "Listen folks these things cost the same to R&D as the 3.6 springs, but there is only 10% of the market...we need to charge more." Ok...makes sense. Even if they doubled the price for their springs it is still only an extra $400 for a GC suspension.

As far as how much it will settle, that is easy...its just physics. Say a bumper weighs 75lbs and has an 80lbs winch on it, all sitting on the front springs. If the SR is 140 (280 for the two)...155lbs (winch and bumper) will make is settle .55 inches.
 

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