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Ikari Warrior

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I'm worried they may pull the plug on the diesel if they dont get this EPA thing straightened. The diesel option used to say late availability on their site if you tried to build a GC....not its not even listed as an option at all. Still says late availability for the Ram though.
I would guess (and hope) that FCA already invested too much $ into the V6 EcoDiesel to just kill it at this point. I mean it was already engineered and fitted into two big selling models. Hopefully they get the EPA satisfied soon so we can see a 2019 Wrangler with diesel engine. Killing me to not hear much news recently on this though.

But the headwinds for diesel in the US aren't great. Mercedes just recently said that going forward they're pulling all diesels from the U.S. market, like VW.
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The Great Grape Ape

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I was talking with the dealership the other day, and they are having issues with EcoDiesel volume, they can't get enough. This was an issue initially, and even back then the GC got short-changed to ensure there was enough for the Ram. The EcoDiesel is likely going to get the same treatment with the JL/JT.

I would say it's almost certain the JT gets it as it's table stakes for trucks. The GC and JL it's still more of a small volume niche that's nice, but not necessary for the category.

Likely the order of priority for FCA and the EcoDiesel is RAM > JT > ( GC/JL or JL/GC ) and until they significantly increase volume, they will likely keep that type of prioritization.

Of course a fair amount of the additional demand fr the RAMs is people worried it will get held up by the EPA (unlikely due to the new Dark Overlord) so people are rushing to get them before they are possibly gone. Will this situation persist into the 2019 model year is a big... dunno!
 
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SWinch

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I was talking with the dealership the other day, and they are having issues with EcoDiesel volume, they can't get enough. This was an issue initially, and even back then the GC got short-changed to ensure there was enough for the Ram. The EcoDiesel is likely going to get the same treatment with the JL/JT.

I would say it's almost certain the JT gets it as it's table stakes for trucks. The GC and JL it's still more of a small volume niche that's nice, but not necessary for the category.

Likely the order of priority for FCA and the EcoDiesel is RAM > JT > ( GC/JL or JL/GC ) and until they significantly increase volume, they will likely keep that type of prioritization.

Of course a fair amount of the additional demand fr the RAMs is people worried it will get held up by the EPA (unlikely due to the new Dark Overlord) so people are rushing to get them before they are possibly gone. Will this situation persist into the 2019 model year is a big... dunno!
So assuming the EcoDiesel gets cleared by the FCA to resume sale, you think there'll be a long term supply issue that might keep it out of the JL/JLU in favor of the JT? Hope that doesn't happen! I want a diesel but I don't want to get the JT just to get it since I don't need a pickup.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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So assuming the EcoDiesel gets cleared by the FCA to resume sale, you think there'll be a long term supply issue that might keep it out of the JL/JLU in favor of the JT? Hope that doesn't happen! I want a diesel but I don't want to get the JT just to get it since I don't need a pickup.
I don't know, but we have seen what happened with the GC in the past, and currently. Some theories...

The RAM has to meet less stringent regulations, so even if regulatory concerns were involved it would likely get the target/focus as it's less likely to get a recall/buy-back/etc. Now if the JT gets that same functional expemption then it might get them when others are more of a question mark.

To me, the best chance for the JL/JLU is that FCA have sufficient quantity early in the JL(U) lifecycle BEFORE the JT becomes available, because afterwards then the JT will get preference if there are supply constraints, until perhaps that JT market gets saturated enough, and then maybe they can refocus on the JL(U)s.

The most we can hope for (even though I don't want diesel) is that the supply situation is improved by the time it would be able to find a soot under the hood of a JL or JLU.
 

Shaddrach

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I just read this on Car and Driver,
"Additionally, we anticipate the new Wrangler will get a turbocharged four-cylinder engine. Expect the boosted four-pot to serve the role of the Wrangler’s fuel-economy champion until the diesel and hybrid powertrains arrive a couple of years later."

If the diesel is not going to show up until a "couple years" after the JL is released, that really puts a damper on my plans. I guess I'll be keeping my JK for a couple more years if what C&D says is accurate.
 

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WaltA

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Hasn't Sergio mentioned that a US diesel is part of the JL's "five year plan"? That could mean that we will not see a diesel until, what, 2023?

And that's long enough, that plans can change by the time 2023 rolls around either by FCA's doing, or the EPA.
 

Dackel

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I just read this on Car and Driver,
"Additionally, we anticipate the new Wrangler will get a turbocharged four-cylinder engine. Expect the boosted four-pot to serve the role of the Wrangler’s fuel-economy champion until the diesel and hybrid powertrains arrive a couple of years later."

If the diesel is not going to show up until a "couple years" after the JL is released, that really puts a damper on my plans. I guess I'll be keeping my JK for a couple more years if what C&D says is accurate.
I wouldn't put much stock on that estimate for the diesel. Not even FCA will really know the timing on their diesel models until the EPA thing is resolved.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Hasn't Sergio mentioned that a US diesel is part of the JL's "five year plan"? That could mean that we will not see a diesel until, what, 2023?

And that's long enough, that plans can change by the time 2023 rolls around either by FCA's doing, or the EPA.
Well it was supposed to arrive before 2022 (looks like 2020) according to the roadmap from the investors call business plan based on requirement needs. Of course that was before Europe's and the EPA's investigations.

However, according to that Business plan, the Wrangler is supposed to get a Mild 48V Hybrid before then (and it didn't even have the dotted line of uncertainty around it), supposedly then a full higher voltage Hybrid afterwards. 2018 was a commonly mentioned as an ETA for the Mild Hybrid.

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WaltA

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Well it was supposed to arrive before 2022 (looks like 2020) according to the roadmap from the investors call business plan based on requirement needs. Of course that was before Europe's and the EPA's investigations.
If this plan is from back before "diesel gate" started, then its a pretty old roadmap, no? And "diesel gate" is a pretty major disruption to any business plan that involves diesels.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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This was released for the investors call January of 2016 (see bottom right of slide), so after the original diesel-gate, but before the EPA announced their investigation into the EcoDiesel.
It was also before Europe started changing their opinion of diesel due to particulate polution, with proposed bans in many of the major European cities.

It's highly likely the original timeframe no longer applies for the JL/JLU.
However I still think the JT gets considered as a different beast simply due to the nature of the truck market.
 

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TommyDuncan

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I was recently at a dealership and they told me the eco-diesel was on hold and may no longer be for sale in the US due to the recent EPA issues.
Last month I also found out the reason we have 2 new Cummins at work is because there was an indefinite timeline to fill the order for 2 eco-diesels that where long standing. Does anyone have any information on this?
 

JTman

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I was recently at a dealership and they told me the eco-diesel was on hold and may no longer be for sale in the US due to the recent EPA issues.
Yea FCA didn't even certify any ecodiesel Ram 1500 or Grand Cherokees in 2017. They're on hold indefinitely until the EPA diesel cheating allegations against FCA are resolved or settled.

Now that VW just settled their case with the US govt and can continue their diesel sales, hopefully next up is addressing the FCA diesel issue.
 

Billy

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Well, I'm out until they come up with a solution to better torque and MPG above 25 hwy.
 

WaltA

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Well, I'm out until they come up with a solution to better torque and MPG above 25 hwy.
I can say, it was an SUV/4WD with city mileage in the 30's, back when gas was flirting with $5/gal, that lured me away from Jeep. A decision that I would later regret.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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While it doesn't impact me, as a diesel doesn't fit my use case (I'd get one if better in the cold), this sucks for something that has been long awaited in the Wrangler, and a great fit for a majority of enthusiasts.

I am surprised this is dragging out so long and that the EPA is essentially holding for ransom the approval of the 2017 software as a bargaining chip / pressure tactic, in what might be one of their last fights for a while considering its slow dismantling; which overall won't change things too much as CARB isn't going anywhere and they still guide much of the market and most of the big states follow their lead.

I have & do wonder if this impediment might accelerate the jump to mild HEV on the roadmap, as that would be a better fit for me. Without a diesel option, can the Hurricane take up enough of the CAFE slack on its own or do they need to push to EV quicker to fill the gap?
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