2.0L turbo 4 cylinder Hurricane engine

BillyHW

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Probably. Depends on if FCA looks for higher output or higher efficiency, but current design on the platform would essentially require premium fuel, although at altitude you might be able to get away with mid-grade, but even then.. probably not.

A few of the small turbos out there like the VW 2.0L B-cycle in the Tiguan can use 87 Octane, but most require premium 91.

The problem being that often the efficiency gains are lost by the cost of fuel. As you know, here in AB it's a 15-25c premium... for Premium (sometimes 20c or more for midgrade), which can amount to 20-30% higher fuel costs kinda killing the benefits.

One thing that was great about driving in the maritimes this summer was premium being only ~ 5c more than regular (though all much higher than our reg) so went for the altitude and octane power boost while out there. :muscle::captain:
Why is the price difference so much higher here?





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The Great Grape Ape

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We in Europe in most countries have Super 95 as base gasoline fuel. All turbo engines can run on it but at least Super 98 is desirable. You can feel the difference.
Same gasoline only you in Europe calculate it differently, your Super 95 is the same as our Premium 91 and your Super 98 is the same as our Ultra 93/94.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

 

BillyHW

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MPG ratings must be really deceptive across naturally aspirated, forced induction, and diesel engines, if it's not taking into account the price variations between the different types of fuel required, which are going to vary in different locations and different times too.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Why is the price difference so much higher here?
I dunno, but considering their base price for regular was about 15+c more than ours, it makes the price of premium here and there nearer to the same price, you just lose the advantage of regular.

However, if it's gonna be $1.15 for regular and $1.20 for Premium, then WooHoo, why not !?!
Some pumps it was 1c more for 89 and only 3c more for 91 so I was surprised.

Now if it was only the mid-grade then I would have been leary / skeptical , because in the US 89 octane is often cheaper than 87 because it has a high amount of Ethanol, whereas the 87 and 91 don't and are pure gasoline.
Also be aware, some states like Washington a typical gas station will have ethanol in all their pumps' grades without a warning/sticker, and you need to seek out the more commercial oriented ones to get fuel without ethanol.

Ethanol doped gasolines get less MPG so get the pure stuff when you can.
 

kidney

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kidney

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MPG ratings must be really deceptive across naturally aspirated, forced induction, and diesel engines, if it's not taking into account the price variations between the different types of fuel required, which are going to vary in different locations and different times too.
IMO, part of diesel unpopularity in US is a fuel price. It's contrary in Europe where in most countries diesel is around 10% cheaper compared to gasoline. You must be a fool if you buy a car with gasoline engine (and modern gasoline engine could run in numerous expensive repairs) and do high mileage.

For example Alfa Giulia in Europe is mostly with all aluminium 2.2 liter diesel. More than 80%. I had an exact number.
 

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I dunno, but considering their base price for regular was about 15+c more than ours, it makes the price of premium here and there nearer to the same price, you just lose the advantage of regular.

However, if it's gonna be $1.15 for regular and $1.20 for Premium, then WooHoo, why not !?!
Some pumps it was 1c more for 89 and only 3c more for 91 so I was surprised.

Now if it was only the mid-grade then I would have been leary / skeptical , because in the US 89 octane is often cheaper than 87 because it has a high amount of Ethanol, whereas the 87 and 91 don't and are pure gasoline.
Also be aware, some states like Washington a typical gas station will have ethanol in all their pumps' grades without a warning/sticker, and you need to seek out the more commercial oriented ones to get fuel without ethanol.

Ethanol doped gasolines get less MPG so get the pure stuff when you can.
I didn't know about the mid-grade containing more ethanol. I always thought it was just a blend of the 87 and 91 to get 89. Since my car gets regular, I don't pay too much attention between the price differences of 87, 89 and 91. If it's a blend, then wouldn't the price have to settle at halfway between the 87 and 91? (Otherwise you could blend it yourself.)

I also thought that 87 was 10% ethanol, 89 was 5% ethanol, and 91 was 0% ethanol. But maybe that's a myth.

I know that ethanol is an octane booster, so are gas stations cheaping out and just putting in more ethanol into the mid-grade and premium? Seems to me like there ought to be a law against that because like you said, it lowers mpg.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Interesting, and that's fuel related, that Mazda Skyactive-G engine has higher compression ratio in Europe compared to North America.
Considering the limited diference in efficiency from 14:1 vs 13:1 between the two I'd stick with 13:1 and take the 20+% fuel price savings.
 

kidney

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Considering the limited diference in efficiency from 14:1 vs 13:1 between the two I'd stick with 13:1 and take the 20+% fuel price savings.
In my country fuel called Normal 91 is not offered for the past 15 or more years. I can't remember how much it was cheaper compared to Eurosuper 95 but certainly it was less than 10%. I know that some cars like Wartburg run on it. Also American cars run on it but most of European can't.

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The Great Grape Ape

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I didn't know about the mid-grade containing more ethanol. I always thought it was just a blend of the 87 and 91 to get 89. Since my car gets regular, I don't pay too much attention between the price differences of 87, 89 and 91. If it's a blend, then wouldn't the price have to settle at halfway between the 87 and 91? (Otherwise you could blend it yourself.)
Not all 89s are ethanol, but ehen you see the price drop from 87 to 89, that's why. Many are simoly a blend of premium and regular, but you need to keep an eye out for ethanol even in regular and premium. IIRC out here all Husky fuel has a percentage of ethanol used to be 10% at one time dunno now as that is why I stay away from them.
You would think price should be at the halfway point, but rarely is 89 halfway between the two out here. Just a wuickly look at gas buddy usually has a big jump from 87 to 89 and then a small jump from 89 to 91. It's as much about marketing as cost.

I also thought that 87 was 10% ethanol, 89 was 5% ethanol, and 91 was 0% ethanol. But maybe that's a myth.
That can be true, it depends on the supplier (like Husky) and the region (Washington), I always went on the assumption premium was 0% as well until I noticed the sticker explaining their stste requirement in all fuel grades.

I know that ethanol is an octane booster, so are gas stations cheaping out and just putting in more ethanol into the mid-grade and premium? Seems to me like there ought to be a law against that because like you said, it lowers mpg.
They aren't necessarily cheaoing out, it's often government pushing this as there is this false narrative that making fuel from corn is a good idea, which has be proven incorrect. Some companies might either be tryig to be 'green' or cheap by independantly outting more in than they need to, which is why I don't buy their gas.
There are a lot of laws regulating this, but as so few people even understand the basics, stuff like this isn't part of it.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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In my country fuel called Normal 91 is not offered for the past 15 or more years. I can't remember how much it was cheaper compared to Eurosuper 95 but certainly it was less than 10%.
Well as we're talking about AB considering that's where myself and Billy are located, then it's easy to check the difference, and quite often it's this which equates to 24% and can be more but is rarely less than 15% unless prices go back up to $1.40/L. Midgreade is less of a boost, and usually is at the halfway point, but sometimes not. Usually it's 10c more for 89 and diesel, and 20c for 91 . The onky time they are closer is when regular is much more expensive to begin with, like in the maritimes.

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Now off to go golfing...
 

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They aren't necessarily cheaoing out, it's often government pushing this as there is this false narrative that making fuel from corn is a good idea, which has be proven incorrect. Some companies might either be tryig to be 'green' or cheap by independantly outting more in than they need to, which is why I don't buy their gas.
There are a lot of laws regulating this, but as so few people even understand the basics, stuff like this isn't part of it.
I think you're leaving out one political aspect of "corn fuel". Part of it is the ag bloc pushing corn to prop up the farmers and the business. Science has no part in that portion of the equation.
 

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any guesses as to which motor will be in the rubicon? I am really wondering if I should tick with a gas or go to a desiel and what about turbo inline4 hurricane thing? can some one list the pros and cons for each engine?
 

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