“You'll Almost Have to Buy an Electric Vehicle if Climate Bill Passes”

J0E

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The problems are:
1) Recharge times - I can gas up in 10 minutes. His car takes hours.
2) Availability of places to recharge.
It takes me 20 seconds to plug in my EV in the garage, and 20 seconds to unplug when I return. That's over 10 times faster than you. On rare occasions when we need to charge away from home, I can get 80% charged in 30 minutes from a level 3 charger. We've had to do that once in the last 2 years.

In 20 years when Jeep has the 2nd gen hydrogen fuel cell (which Microsoft has today), I'll buy it. Not the first gen for sure.

BTW, I charge my EV for free from my solar cells. Not that it matters, but I have the lowest carbon footprint of anyone on this forum.

 

Teddy B

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Cool Joe, you have the $$$ to have a charger at home and solar panels. Let alone an ev (assuming tesla) and a JL. What about those that don't? Oh, right, we've all made the excellent life choices you have and can afford whatever you deem necessary...

Does lowest carbon footprint = better than everyone else??? Sure seems like thats your mindset.

You claim to be from HI, SLC (assuming the city itself and not outlying areas), MT (Missoula, Bozeman?)and NY... How'd you move your belongings? Did you fly? Transport everything with magic fairy dust? Bold claim to be making about lowest carbon footprint. But where you live(d) fits right in with your attitude.

Stereotypical example of the 1st time Jeep owner. But good for you! Keep posing on rocks in your driveway... 😏
 
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Opus

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dcmdon

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It takes me 20 seconds to plug in my EV in the garage, and 20 seconds to unplug when I return. That's over 10 times faster than you. On rare occasions when we need to charge away from home, I can get 80% charged in 30 minutes from a level 3 charger. We've had to do that once in the last 2 years.

In 20 years when Jeep has the 2nd gen hydrogen fuel cell (which Microsoft has today), I'll buy it. Not the first gen for sure.

BTW, I charge my EV for free from my solar cells. Not that it matters, but I have the lowest carbon footprint of anyone on this forum.
You are hi lighting a completely different use case than I mentioned.

In day to day driving an EV is far easier to live with. I thought I implied that above. Either way, Yes. You plug in at nigh and are done in 20 seconds. Quicker and better. I agree.

However I was talking about a use case where you are going on a trip.

You can make all the excuses you want. But for a long trip EVs still suck. And non-Tesla EVs are even more difficult. Numerous articles have been written about this within even the last few months. Taking an EV on a road trip difficult for the 2 reasons I mentioned above.
1) charge time
2) scarcity of FUNCTIONAL charging stations

I noticed that so many of the non-Tesla stations in my town were off line that I started doing research. I found that this is a problem nationally.

1660470757703.png


My neighbor is a big EV car nut. He and his wife have a Tesla Model S and Model X. He's got 2 chargers in his garage and is generally an evangelist for the tech.

But he has no delusions about their use on a trip. Part of the reason it works for him is that they don't go on driving vacations. His response when I asked him about this years ago was "I'll rent a Suburban for $500 if I need to do a road trip".

You mention getting 80% charge in 30 minutes with a level 3 charger.
This is not quite right. The way Level 3 (Or DCFC) is described is

AS MUCH AS an 80% charge in AS LITTLE AS 30 minutes.

In short you can't count on 80% in 30 min. Level 3 chargers range from 200v to 800v. So there is a 4x variability within that standard itself.

Finally, the real problem with Level 3 charges is the fact that there simply aren't very many out there. Few enough that including them in any kind of route planning is almost farcical.

The reason for this is simply that they cost an enormous amount of money to install and maintain. A single Taycan on an 800v charger can draw 500 kw of power. 2 Taycans can draw over one MEGAWATT.

The electric infrastrcuture isn't there to support this. My home has a 100 amp service. That means that the theoretical maximum my house can draw is 24,000 watts. My average usage is much less, about 50 kwh per day. So my average power draw is about. 2100 watts.

So 2 large BEVS like a Taycan fast charging at the same time draws as much power from the grid as 500 homes. Do you see the problem there??

This is nothing that a capitalist economy won't fix. But it will take a few years. This problem will solve itself in a short time.

But for the next few years, the long trip problem is real.

This is why I'm so big on PHEVs. A 40 mile range allows most people to be fully plug-in, in day to day life, but still have a care free trip if they choose to go somewhere.
 


TJJL19

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I need to win the Lottery, so I can get a 392 and install a Tazer, to smoke the tires off!!!
One of my kids was sent to South Korea, before Covid !!! They wear wearing mask, over there, because of the pollution, from China reaching South Korea,
 

entropy

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Before we get rid of ICE, we need to get rid of lawns. We don’t have the water. Without the water we don’t have the power for EVs…. I just read that on average we use triple the amount of water in summer than in winter. Cause… lawns and landscaping. If we can’t give up something frivolous like green grass at our house to allow people to eat food grown in the US, we’ll never give up ICE.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/water-levels-lake-mead-dangerously-close-hitting-dead/story?id=85584196
No we dont. We need to stop growing cotton and almonds in California. Cities use 10% of the water in California and that includes watering lawns and landscapes.

We can be smarter about watering and help a bit but the real issue is somewhere else. If we let our landscapes die we are gonna be dealing with other issues such as increased heat, proliferation of invasive pests that will move to our forests and kill trees, etc..
 

stumblinhorse

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No we dont. We need to stop growing cotton and almonds in California. Cities use 10% of the water in California and that includes watering lawns and landscapes.

We can be smarter about watering and help a bit but the real issue is somewhere else. If we let our landscapes die we are gonna be dealing with other issues such as increased heat, proliferation of invasive pests that will move to our forests and kill trees, etc..
Well that is why we’ll have ICE and lawns forever. Everyone has a different opinion. Everyone thinks they are correct. No one believes what someone else says. Our species is getting what it deserves…

Keep watering , spraying and mowing lawns. Everyone else is going to do the same. California produces almost double the agricultural contributions than any other state. I am not sure that cutting the water to CA farmers is going to result in a better climate or economy. Doing without is not in the US culture. Nothing will change.
 

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I'm having this fight right now with my HOA. They spend thousands on water irrigating lawns in the summer to keep them green only to spend even more to have the lawns mowed. I want them to stop watering and just let the grass go dormant if there's a lack of rain (or better yet replace it all with no maintenance hardscape) but everybody wants their green grass.
 

stumblinhorse

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I'm having this fight right now with my HOA. They spend thousands on water irrigating lawns in the summer to keep them green only to spend even more to have the lawns mowed. I want them to stop watering and just let the grass go dormant if there's a lack of rain (or better yet replace it all with no maintenance hardscape) but everybody wants their green grass.
Agreed, you would think that stopping non-recreational landscaping would be a no brainer. Places just like you mentioned. Office/commercial landscapes, road divides, subdivision entries…. They have no value to anyone. Powell and Mead will be dry in the next 5 years, or flaming gorge, blue mesa and Navajo will have to be drained to keep the power on to charge everyone’s EV.
 


entropy

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Well that is why we’ll have ICE and lawns forever. Everyone has a different opinion. Everyone thinks they are correct. No one believes what someone else says. Our species is getting what it deserves…

Keep watering , spraying and mowing lawns. Everyone else is going to do the same. California produces almost double the agricultural contributions than any other state. I am not sure that cutting the water to CA farmers is going to result in a better climate or economy. Doing without is not in the US culture. Nothing will change.
There is no need to grow cotton and almonds in California. They can move somewhere else.

There are smart ways to do irrigation. Lawns do work in some places where it doesnt get too hot and gets plenty shade for example. And if properly fertilized feeding the soil instead of using synthetic fertilizers they can help reduce cooling costs.

It is not black and white.
 

stumblinhorse

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There is no need to grow cotton and almonds in California. They can move somewhere else.

There are smart ways to do irrigation. Lawns do work in some places where it doesnt get too hot and gets plenty shade for example. And if properly fertilized feeding the soil instead of using synthetic fertilizers they can help reduce cooling costs.

It is not black and white.
Nothing is black and white. That is why solutions are hard. An EV doesn’t work for everyone everywhere. Where I live they are not practical. There is no such thing as a short trip, it is 30 miles to the grocery store. also we spent close to 60 days last winter below freezing, meaning never warmer than 32*. And I had several times I drove 90 minutes where the temperature didn’t reach -25*. My def froze solid and as usual got a check engine light. Most people here can’t afford a garage. Most vehicles have a block heater.

Much smarter people than me better step up and solve these problems and soon. Figuring out how to save us probably is not going to be done on a JL forum:). But maybe…
 

2nd 392

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When did you ever lose your right to free speech?
Since I don’t tweet or use social media (other than here) I haven’t. Many have, “misinformation” is commonly censored, and who, why, and what determines “misinformation”? Perhaps those views the misinformation fact checker disagree with? This is presently a contentious issue with lawsuits.
 

zrickety

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I'm having this fight right now with my HOA. They spend thousands on water irrigating lawns in the summer to keep them green only to spend even more to have the lawns mowed. I want them to stop watering and just let the grass go dormant if there's a lack of rain (or better yet replace it all with no maintenance hardscape) but everybody wants their green grass.
100%. I don't understand this obsession over grass. I know many that water daily, and mow every week. Seems counterproductive to me. We used to have a neighbor that had their grass sprayed, it was so green I called it the Willy Wonka house. You could see the color change at their property line.
I like electrics, but as many are pointing out, they are not as green as billed. Coal sales are up 900% because of electric usage. They tell people not to run the a/c to save the grid, but then buy an electric car? Unless you have a small fortune in solar panels and inverters, your electric car is powered by traditional energy. Those costs are up too. Then in 5 years, your battery doesn't hold a charge anymore and you're out tens of thousands for a replacement.
ICE cars are pretty clean today. Emissions are a fraction of cars from even the 90's. There is a company that makes biofuel from algae...why aren't we pursuing those options? As usual, the underlying push for EVs is about money and control.

 
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