“You'll Almost Have to Buy an Electric Vehicle if Climate Bill Passes”

JJM

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There hasn’t been a performance vehicle on sale with a BBC is a long time.
Not sure why you are correlating new car sales going EV to losing the freedom to build a BBC.

big blocks suck anyway unless you’re trying to make 2000hp, which means you’re probably running a 2 speed trans, hardly a “joy of driving” setup.
WRONG - ENJOY YOUR EV

 

JJM

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There's nothing forcing people to switch, but it may be in your best interest. The economies of scale that allow gas prices to be low (and no one wants to hear it, but $5/gallon is still low) will evaporate over time. The cost in 10 years to fill a tank with dino-juice is going to be staggering (Think $13 per gallon) as refining winds down capacity based on diminished demand.

Steam engines were better than ICE when ICE came out. And lordy, there's was no place to get gas! I can't believe that inferior technology caught on. (It's a sneak peak at our future.)

I'm going EV in 5 years. Going to give it another generation of development.
The way that technology is advancing at such an exponential rate, who knows, 5 years might be a time that is right, as long as we do not need to rely on an adversary like China for the tech.
Now is not a time to limit the fossil fuel industries and consider them an enemy with regulations that strangle our economy, and start shutting them down.
 

AlgUSF

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Even from a coal fired plant, the emissions output to charge an EV are far less than the tailpipe emissions from an ICE. And electric doesn't have to come from coal, as infrastructure gets cleaner, so does your EV.

EVs are generally not zero emissions that is true, but they are lower emission than an ICE and can only get better. An existing ICE will never get any less polluting.
An electric vehicle typically weighs more than a comparable ICE vehicle. It requires more energy to move a larger mass. I disagree that ICEs never get "less polluting". I have an 02 Civic, it still gets roughly the same gas mileage and range that it did brand new 20 years ago. The environmental costs of its manufacture were paid decades ago, a typical EV battery degrades from the second it is manufactured until it reaches the end of it's "useful life" which I hear is around 10 years. Once the battery is toast, the vehicle is essentially written off and now there is a new environmental cost of the disposal and manufacture of a new EV. In the real world, everything has a cost, you trade pros and cons of each.

My thought is that a balance of ICE vehicles and EVs are probably the best solution. I love my ICE Jeep, I wouldn't have bought a 4xe if it was the only version available. Nothing against the 4xe but it doesn't fit my use case. We are looking at replacing our van with an EV in then coming years. Like I said in my original post about Economics class, nothing is free, there are trade-offs you need to make for each decision, and every opportunity has a cost somewhere.
 

JJM

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Sorry, but when rational people judge the merits of a particular trend or law, they don’t judge it based upon how much they like or dislike the person(s) trying to implement it.
I haven't made one irrational argument here. You do not understand. It is not that I dislike the "trend or law" because I dislike the scumbag totalitarian that is mandating them - it is more that because the mandates are destroying the nation and economy (and nullifying American Freedoms), I dislike the scumbag totalitarian that is mandating them. You have it backwards.
 

Chupacabra

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An electric vehicle typically weighs more than a comparable ICE vehicle. It requires more energy to move a larger mass. I disagree that ICEs never get "less polluting". I have an 02 Civic, it still gets roughly the same gas mileage and range that it did brand new 20 years ago.
What I mean was an ICE vehicle's tailpipe emissions never get better as time goes on, it probably gets worse.

An EV can be charged from fossil fuel power plants, but in the future that could be supplemented more by wind, solar, nuclear, etc. All of which would likely be less polluting than the coal-fired power plant. That's what I was trying to say anyway.
 
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JJM

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Has anyone ever been to an NHRA event - the sound of top fuel dragsters and funny cars idling on the starting line - would I pay to see EV's that are a second faster - NO - WOULDN'T BE INTERESTED.

Would I want a performance vehicle that was an EV - even if it was faster - NO - I'd want the BBC with open headers.

But to each their own - If a killer Tesla does it for you - go for it.

Harley with drag pipes - or an EV Harley?

The sound is everything.

Everything about the enjoyment & excitement of driving is the sound as you go through the gears.
 
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gato

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An electric vehicle typically weighs more than a comparable ICE vehicle.
People keep repeating this stuff, but it is not true.

Take a Tesla Model S Plaid. About 5,000 lbs. Show me another ICE sedan that seats 5 people, has as much cargo space as the Model S (remember front and rear trunks) and can accelerate to 60MPH in under 2 seconds that weighs less.

You can't find one.

When you adjust for performance (acceleration) and interior/cargo space, ICE vehicles weigh more.

Look at the F-150 lightning (~6,000 lbs). How much would an F-150 ICE that could hit 0-60MPH in 4 sec and have the additional covered and weather protected front storage of the lightning weigh?
 

AlgUSF

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People keep repeating this stuff, but it is not true.

Take a Tesla Model S Plaid. About 5,000 lbs. Show me another ICE sedan that seats 5 people, has as much cargo space as the Model S (remember front and rear trunks) and can accelerate to 60MPH in under 2 seconds that weighs less.
0-60 times are irrelevant.

A Chevy Trailblazer weighs 1000 lbs less than a Tesla Model X.
A 2023 Chevy Corvette weighs 3600 lbs, roughly 1400 lbs less than the Model S Plaid you mention.
A Tesla Model X weighs about as much as a Toyota Tundra and the Toyota Tundra can tow a trailer with 3 model X's up a hill, no problem.
 

2nd 392

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The “free market economy” simply doesn’t exist. Oil companies and the fossil fuel industry get tens of billions in federal subsidies and tax breaks every year. Big business manipulates the market just as much as government, sometimes more in certain industries. Agreed, it would be wonderful if the world could exist without market interventions, but someone will always try and put themselves before the market and cause manipulation.
Do you feel great animosity towards former President Eisenhower for the US interstate system? The market cannot solve every problem. It’s a matter of balance regarding which problems we want to leave to the market (or the tragedy of the commons) and which we want to accelerate the time to solution.

I like the way Stellantis is hedging it’s bets on alternatives to ICE in their fleet. I also like the fact that Ford is going all in and making a big bet, taking a chance. Very different strategies but both are reasonable business choices. My hat tips to both Tavares and Farley.
I agree in general, but on balance the current level of pressure on one sector in such a short period of time from every possible agency is unprecedented. With a disproportionate percentage of financial burden on the middle and lower class. The “ buy an electric car” response when questioned about fuel prices says it all.
 

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Has anyone ever been to an NHRA event - the sound of top fuel dragsters and funny cars idling on the starting line - would I pay to see EV's that are second faster - NO - WOULDN'T BE INTERESTED.

Would I want a performance vehicle that was an EV - even if it was faster - NO - I'd want the BBC with open headers.

But to each their own - If a killer Tesla does it for you - go for it.

Harley with drag pipes - or an EV Harley?

The sound is everything.

Everything about the enjoyment & excitement of driving is the sound as you go through the gears.
My first disagreement— as much as I love the sound (I so miss the sound of a big cam) , I also miss the smell of burning alcohol and nitro, burning rubber. The ground shaking and your body vibrating when close to one. I was in the pits when my cousin raced A/A, pure adrenaline! Also, when young I went to the unlimited hydroplane races at Tahoe , the first time there was a jet powered one that won over the V12 Rolls Royce powered ones it was obvious they would soon be extinct and never went again. EV racing? Maytag vs whirlpool-Very Exciting!!
 


OP
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No IFS

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People expressing their opinions, the thread is still open. Nobody’s hurt. The world did not end. We all managed to live through hearing different views, Holy Wow !
Maybe this free speech thing will catch on.
 
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stumblinhorse

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Before we get rid of ICE, we need to get rid of lawns. We don’t have the water. Without the water we don’t have the power for EVs…. I just read that on average we use triple the amount of water in summer than in winter. Cause… lawns and landscaping. If we can’t give up something frivolous like green grass at our house to allow people to eat food grown in the US, we’ll never give up ICE.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/water-levels-lake-mead-dangerously-close-hitting-dead/story?id=85584196
 

2nd 392

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People expressing their opinions, the thread is still open. Nobody’s hurt. The world did not end. We all managed to live through hearing different views , Holy Wow !
Maybe this free speech thing will catch on.
Frankly I’m surprised it’s still up. Maybe the censors are on vacation. Yes, a return to free speech would be welcomed!
 

JLUandCJ-7

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Me predicts gas prices will "tank" and electricity will jump to levels unimagined, making them on par with each other when EV gets competitive on a large scale. Basically, they'll seek equilibrium and what the market will bear.
Bye, Felicia.
 

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Before we get rid of ICE, we need to get rid of lawns. We don’t have the water. Without the water we don’t have the power for EVs…. I just read that on average we use triple the amount of water in summer than in winter. Cause… lawns and landscaping. If we can’t give up something frivolous like green grass at our house to allow people to eat food grown in the US, we’ll never give up ICE.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/water-levels-lake-mead-dangerously-close-hitting-dead/story?id=85584196
Well- my lawn is brown, as is the home across the street.The ones on either side of me are watering the front but not the back. It’s not mandatory here yet so the percentage still watering is still high. Unfortunately, our wells draw off the same water table so if theirs goes dry so will mine, but they have a green lawn— for now!

 

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