“Definitely not as capable as a solid axle Jeep Wrangler”

[Jtphoto]

Bear in mind this is Fords first effort with Bronco, and it has been a difficult launch due to COVID and supply chain issues. For the most part they nailed it. I followed one up Top of the World at this past EJS and it handled it just fine even with the IFS. Like Wrangler is to Chrysler, Bronco will be a crown jewel for Ford.

Ford didn’t NAIL anything they failed on lots and added some gimmicks.
Ford has been good at blaming their fail on Covid and supply issues yet here we are, not even 6 months into 2022 Wrangler production and well over 160k units produced. The Bronco may have a place but it most certainly is not a Wrangler, only a wannabe.

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[SoK66]

I’m sorry, but I’m tired of hearing people excuse Ford for botching up the Bronco launch.

Ford wasn’t the only automaker coping with COVID and supply chain issues; every automaker had to work within the same constraints. Yet we didn’t hear Jeep making up excuses when it launched an all-new Grand Cherokee, Wagoneer and redesigned Compass, or Toyota when it launched an all-new Tundra, Corolla Cross.

In fact, Ford’s other launches, Bronco Sport, Mach-E, Maverick, weren’t the big giant mess that the Bronco launch turned out to be. There was clearly more at play than COVID and supply chain issues; by the looks of it, there was a lot of good old incompetence involved.

Agreed, but it was an all-new model on essentially its own platform, derived from next gen Ranger which hasn’t launched yet. They nailed the styling, pre-launch marketing, PR, in field activities, charging right at the heart of Jeep with displays at EJS, the Bronco Off Rodeos, etc. Where they f’d the dog was their “Reservation” program, which apparently wasn’t aligned with dealer ordering processes, allocations, build schedules, manufacturing shortages, etc. etc. Then the dealers started their ADM BS. Add it all up and Ford has pissed off a lot of people who will never again consider one of their products. Despite all that the product is a smash hit and will be nibbling at Wranglers heels for years to come.

 

[aldo98229]

Agreed, but it was an all-new model on essentially its own platform, derived from next gen Ranger which hasn’t launched yet. They nailed the styling, pre-launch marketing, PR, in field activities, charging right at the heart of Jeep with displays at EJS, the Bronco Off Rodeos, etc. Where they f’d the dog was their “Reservation” program, which apparently wasn’t aligned with dealer ordering processes, allocations, build schedules, manufacturing shortages, etc. etc. Then the dealers started their ADM BS. Add it all up and Ford has pissed off a lot of people who will never again consider one of their products. Despite all that the product is a smash hit and will be nibbling at Wranglers heels for years to come.

That’s not all: they also screwed up the hardtop; the soft top, which doesn’t seal out the elements and has a stupid cargo access design; the wobbly frameless windows; the cheap, flimsy interior, and apparently a whole bunch of 2.7 EcoBoosts that are now blowing up like hand grenades.

We shall see about Bronco nibbling at the heels of Wrangler. Over the years, a number of competitors much better engineered than Bronco have tried and failed. In fact, Bronco is already starting to look like last year’s news.

Jim Farley announced recently that, going forward, Ford is going to focus on electrification. Given that it took 15 years to approve and develop this Bronco, it will take Ford even longer to approve a redesign now that the company’s goals lay somewhere else completely.

 

[SoK66]

That’s not all: they also screwed up the hardtop; the soft top, which doesn’t seal out the elements and has a stupid cargo access design; the wobbly frameless windows; the cheap, flimsy interior, and apparently a whole bunch of 2.7 EcoBoosts that are now blowing up like hand grenades.

We shall see about Bronco nibbling at the heels of Wrangler. Over the years, a number of competitors much better engineered than Bronco have tried and failed. In fact, Bronco is already starting to look like last year’s news.

Jim Farley announced recently that, going forward, Ford is going to focus on electrification. Given that it took 15 years to approve and develop this Bronco, it will take Ford even longer to approve a redesign now that the company’s goals lay somewhere else completely.

Well, didyaever own a first gen JK with the 3.8L? Bronco is leagues ahead of JK for an initial release. Bronco has a storied history and many loyal owners of vintage models, just like Jeep. A hybrid Bronco or all-electric will no doubt be at hand in short order. Development times on all electric is way w short, few legislative hurdles, etc. If you’re worried about Bronco’s effect on Jeep, it will be in the area of the front suspension. Jeep has taken a live axle as far as it’s going to go and if Toyota and Ford can succeed with IFS on a utility platform, so will Jeep if it kills off death wobble, ride quality issues, etc.

 

[AcesandEights]

Well, didyaever own a first gen JK with the 3.8L? Bronco is leagues ahead of JK for an initial release. Bronco has a storied history and many loyal owners of vintage models, just like Jeep. A hybrid Bronco or all-electric will no doubt be at hand in short order. Development times on all electric is way w short, few legislative hurdles, etc. If you’re worried about Bronco’s effect on Jeep, it will be in the area of the front suspension. Jeep has taken a live axle as far as it’s going to go and if Toyota and Ford can succeed with IFS on a utility platform, so will Jeep if it kills off death wobble, ride quality issues, etc.

I'm glad you brought up the first-gen JK as a comparison, because I think Ford's Bronco is better than a first-gen JK, but not leagues ahead. The JK came out 16 years ago, and Ford probably has a better vehicle (in some ways) than the 16-year old JK.

People have been saying Jeep has taken live axles as far as they can for decades, and maybe they have, but so what. The live axle is just better in almost all cases, it just is. People act like the live/solid axle sucks at everything but rock crawling. It doesn't. IFS is wrought with its own handling and ride control issues. If Jeep got rid of the solid axle, it would be to exchange one set of issues for a host of others.

 

[Strommen95]

Well, didyaever own a first gen JK with the 3.8L? Bronco is leagues ahead of JK for an initial release.

The Broncos launch has been an absolute disaster, so this comment and comparison is ridiculous. Obviously, the vehicle launched in 2020 will be better than the one launched in 2006.

The JK revolutionized the Wrangler- the Bronco couldn’t outdo the JL with several years of benchmarking. Take your blinders off.

 

[SoK66]

I'm glad you brought up the first-gen JK as a comparison, because I think Ford's Bronco is better than a first-gen JK, but not leagues ahead. The JK came out 16 years ago, and Ford probably has a better vehicle (in some ways) than the 16-year old JK.

People have been saying Jeep has taken live axles as far as they can for decades, and maybe they have, but so what. The live axle is just better in almost all cases, it just is. People act like the live/solid axle sucks at everything but rock crawling. It doesn't. IFS is wrought with its own handling and ride control issues. If Jeep got rid of the solid axle, it would be to exchange one set of issues for a host of others.

I take it you haven’t driven either a first gen JK or a current Bronco. With weight concerns, handling issues, death wobble, etc, if Jeep could get rid of the solid axle and retain its market share it would do so in a heartbeat. KoH and race truck winners have all become IFS, just a matter of time before the solid axle is gone.

 

[aldo98229]

Well, didyaever own a first gen JK with the 3.8L? Bronco is leagues ahead of JK for an initial release. Bronco has a storied history and many loyal owners of vintage models, just like Jeep. A hybrid Bronco or all-electric will no doubt be at hand in short order. Development times on all electric is way w short, few legislative hurdles, etc. If you’re worried about Bronco’s effect on Jeep, it will be in the area of the front suspension. Jeep has taken a live axle as far as it’s going to go and if Toyota and Ford can succeed with IFS on a utility platform, so will Jeep if it kills off death wobble, ride quality issues, etc.

Yes I did. I owned a 2008 Sahara and two 2009 Rubicons. They were crude inside, and the 3.8L V6 was on its way out. I paid $20,000 for that Sahara, $26,000 for the Rubicon 2-door and $28,000 for the Rubicon 4-door. I knew what I was getting into, and that's exactly what I got.

And no, I am not worried about Bronco's effect on Jeep. Bronco will come and go. Just watch.

 

[AcesandEights]

I take it you haven’t driven either a first gen JK or a current Bronco. With weight concerns, handling issues, death wobble, etc, if Jeep could get rid of the solid axle and retain its market share it would do so in a heartbeat. KoH and race truck winners have all become IFS, just a matter of time before the solid axle is gone.

The Jeep Wrangler is not designed or marketed to compete in KoH. Even if the Bronco is marketed that way, it can't "compete" in KoH. It just means the Bronco is a gimmick.

I don't disagree, but I'm not sure I agree either, with some of your other comments. Jeep will probably maximize profits, which means keeping the solid axle and keeping costs lower (engineering, manufacturing, etc.) while retaining customers. That being said the solid axle is better than IFS for more reasons than it's not, so it makes more sense for Ford to put a D44 solid axle in the Bronco than for Jeep to add IFS to the Wrangler. The part that is missing for most people, due to great marketing, is the SFA is a better system. It's not competing with IFS, it is leading the market.

KoH is a different thing, and yes, I ran Hammer trails before KoH was a "thing". If you took that (what's run at KoH) to mean that's what you should drive to take the kids to soccer, we'd all be driving purpose built side-by-sides....because that's where KoH is going. Driving a side-by-side in competition or on the weekends doesn't equate to Jeep's doing it wrong.

ETA: Ford took parts of the 2008 Toyota 4Runner, and 2006 Jeep JK, and built a Bronco. Wow, Ford is only a dozen or more years behind either, and gave us the best of neither.

 

[entropy]

I take it you haven’t driven either a first gen JK or a current Bronco. With weight concerns, handling issues, death wobble, etc, if Jeep could get rid of the solid axle and retain its market share it would do so in a heartbeat. KoH and race truck winners have all become IFS, just a matter of time before the solid axle is gone.

None of these issues experienced with my 3 year old JL.

The solid front axle is still king. Bronco is the latest proof that the IFS cannot yet replace the SFA of the Jeep.

 

[Mikester86]

This cat doesn’t realize that there’s only one: JEEP!

 

[SoK66]

The Broncos launch has been an absolute disaster, so this comment and comparison is ridiculous. Obviously, the vehicle launched in 2020 will be better than the one launched in 2006.

The JK revolutionized the Wrangler- the Bronco couldn’t outdo the JL with several years of benchmarking. Take your blinders off.

There are alreathousands of Bronco owners who think it outperforms JL

This cat doesn’t realize that there’s only one: JEEP!

 

[SoK66]

Yes I did. I owned a 2008 Sahara and two 2009 Rubicons. They were crude inside, and the 3.8L V6 was on its way out. I paid $20,000 for that Sahara, $26,000 for the Rubicon 2-door and $28,000 for the Rubicon 4-door. I knew what I was getting into, and that's exactly what I got.

And no, I am not worried about Bronco's effect on Jeep. Bronco will come and go. Just watch.

There are alreathousands of Bronco owners who think it outperforms JL

Apparently there’s only one Bronco, too.

Who remembers the 3.6 cylinder heads dropping seats from 2012 on that never really got fixed? Bronco 2.7 issue is a bad batch of valves that’s long past. Bronco is a cash cow that will be around for a long time. Biggest mistake Ford ever made was dropping it from the lineup in ‘97.

 

[Mikester86]

There are alreathousands of Bronco owners who think it outperforms JL

We will let them be wrong. Just don’t tell them, it can be their little secret.

 

[aldo98229]

Apparently there’s only one Bronco, too.

Who remembers the 3.6 cylinder heads dropping seats from 2012 on that never really got fixed? Bronco 2.7 issue is a bad batch of valves that’s long past. Bronco is a cash cow that will be around for a long time. Biggest mistake Ford ever made was dropping it from the lineup in ‘97.

FCA jumped right on the 2012 3.6 V6 issue. Within six months most of those engines had been identified, recalled and repaired.

EcoBoost engines started blowing up in November 2021. Here we are, seven months later, and engines are still blowing up. Ford hasn’t communicated with the affected owners proactively, or even acknowledged that the problem exists.

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