Lemon Law Arbitration vs. Litigation

[GreyFox]

OP here.

I have had an attorney since the 3rd time the vehicle went into the dealership. I have 6 repair orders and 34 total days out of service. To make things worse, the dealership actually damaged the front busing linkage on the steering arm in the process of one of the repairs and had to replace that at their cost.

You would think after 6 work orders and 34 days out of service that FCA would have offered a buyback. But, they go so hard back and forth of, “driving as designed” and throwing parts at the car to try to “resolve” the issue. I waited about 8 weeks or so for FCA to get back to my attorney about the buyback which they are refusing to do. They offered a cash settlement, but it’s not enough to recover my losses.

The attorney advised me to go to the new car sales as if I was going to trade in the vehicle. They offered $30,000 for trade and my payoff is $37,500 (I have only had it since 5/22/2018). It’s also not enough to cover the cost of the after market “fixes.” And I am NOT taking a loss on their mistakes.

The attorney works on a contingency basis. Therefore, I haven’t paid anything so far.

In my state (Maryland) the arbitrator is not able to award attorney fees. The attorney wouldn’t be assisting me with the arbitration because there would be no way for them to get paid. Which I completely understand and don’t expect anyone to work for free because I certainly don’t. After dealing with all of this since mid June, I don’t think I could mentally handle the additional stresses of going through arbitration on my own. And in the end to just have them refuse a buyback and still have to wait for a trial date.

So, we are officially heading to trial at this point and I have a feeling that these next few months are going to be a nightmare.

They will not pay you for your after market parts, even if you were trying to correct any steering wanders. If anything, you will only get what you and your dealer agreed to at purchase.

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[KnG818]

OP here.

I have had an attorney since the 3rd time the vehicle went into the dealership. I have 6 repair orders and 34 total days out of service. To make things worse, the dealership actually damaged the front busing linkage on the steering arm in the process of one of the repairs and had to replace that at their cost.

You would think after 6 work orders and 34 days out of service that FCA would have offered a buyback. But, they go so hard back and forth of, “driving as designed” and throwing parts at the car to try to “resolve” the issue. I waited about 8 weeks or so for FCA to get back to my attorney about the buyback which they are refusing to do. They offered a cash settlement, but it’s not enough to recover my losses.

The attorney advised me to go to the new car sales as if I was going to trade in the vehicle. They offered $30,000 for trade and my payoff is $37,500 (I have only had it since 5/22/2018). It’s also not enough to cover the cost of the after market “fixes.” And I am NOT taking a loss on their mistakes.

The attorney works on a contingency basis. Therefore, I haven’t paid anything so far.

In my state (Maryland) the arbitrator is not able to award attorney fees. The attorney wouldn’t be assisting me with the arbitration because there would be no way for them to get paid. Which I completely understand and don’t expect anyone to work for free because I certainly don’t. After dealing with all of this since mid June, I don’t think I could mentally handle the additional stresses of going through arbitration on my own. And in the end to just have them refuse a buyback and still have to wait for a trial date.

So, we are officially heading to trial at this point and I have a feeling that these next few months are going to be a nightmare.

Well since your not going to respond to two posts I have made, I will attempt to try and help you with a bit of honesty but mostly assumption.

I'm assuming your claiming a buyback because of "steering" issues.

Is this your first Jeep?

All Jeeps since the bible was written have a certain characteristic of steering. They've always handled like drunken sailors...the JL is a MASSIVE improvement. There is nothing wrong with the steering, it's a Jeep thing. It's due to design which the FCA has stated.

Let's fast foward because I'm not positive your issue is steering.

IF a full buy back is granted the FCA would cut you a check for the purchase price, not the amount of your bank loan(if you have one). As far as trading it in - your Jeep will be worth far less than its purchase price leaving you upside as you now know.

What are the losses your claiming? Aftermarket parts? Sorry, but you wont get one red cent for any aftermarket parts.

I wish you luck buddy, but if I'm close in my assumptions your about to waste a whole lot of time and effort for nothing.

Being an irate, unhappy new vehicle owner does not win you a full buyback...remember that.

I'm not trying to piss you off or dog your efforts, I'm trying to be helpful through honesty.

We can help you but you need to at least tell us what your problem with the Jeep is.

 

[glang1992]

What is your issue with the Jeep?

My jeep was in shop more than 4 times for warranty issues...it sucks totally agree, but it's just a reality.

Basically, why do you think a full buyback is justified for the issues your having? I understand time and the nuessance of....but what is the problem your having with the Jeep?

....I have a funny feeling I know what your issue is.

The steering problem. Dun dun dunnnnn. Shocker right?

 

[KnG818]

The steering problem. Dun dun dunnnnn. Shocker right?

It's not a problem though....its a steering characteristic. A "Jeep thing" if I may.

There is no "problem".

The stabilizer recall was to calm the masses, but the characteristic is still there(as well as helps a little if you experience exaggerated shimmy).

Throw on a high quality adjustable steering stabilizer and thank me later(I recommend Fox ATS)

 

[glang1992]

Well since your not going to respond to two posts I have made, I will attempt to try and help you with a bit of honesty but mostly assumption.

I'm assuming your claiming a buyback because of "steering" issues.

Is this your first Jeep?

All Jeeps since the bible was written have a certain characteristic of steering. They've always handled like drunken sailors...the JL is a MASSIVE improvement. There is nothing wrong with the steering, it's a Jeep thing. It's due to design which the FCA has stated.

Let's fast foward because I'm not positive your issue is steering.

IF a full buy back is granted the FCA would cut you a check for the purchase price, not the amount of your bank loan(if you have one). As far as trading it in - your Jeep will be worth far less than its purchase price leaving you upside as you now know.

What are the losses your claiming? Aftermarket parts? Sorry, but you wont get one red cent for any aftermarket parts.

I wish you luck buddy, but if I'm close in my assumptions your about to waste a whole lot of time and effort for nothing.

Being an irate, unhappy new vehicle owner does not win you a full buyback...remember that.

I'm not trying to piss you off or dog your efforts, I'm trying to be helpful through honesty.

We can help you but you need to at least tell us what your problem with the Jeep is.

I hadn’t responded specifically publicly because of not knowing what I was / was not allowed to say during this process. That and I don’t always see how many responses there were. I haven’t put any after market parts on it. The only parts have been put on are ones that the dealership has replaced. I took it to an aftermarket shop for ideas on prices for aftermarket fixes. I’m hesitant to put aftermarket parts considering this is a lease. The first vehicle that I have ever leased. I will have to take the parts back off when I return the vehicle. That and they could say that in putting aftermarket parts on, I voided my warranty on certain parts.

No, it’s not my first Jeep. I had a 2013 JKU that I drove on many long distance drives home from school. Never had a single issue with that and it never steered even remotely close to the way that this $40some thousand piece does. I get that it is not going to drive like my Grand Cherokee. And maybe yours doesn’t have the issue, but that doesn’t mean that everyone that has the same exact complaint is just being over dramatic and that the vehicle is “driving as designed.” You almost sound like you work for Chrysler or a dealership with that shit.

I’ve also had a 19 JLU Sahara for a rental and went to the dealership and test drove a 2019 Sport for comparison and neither drove the way that mine does.

Thanks for your astute observations though.

 

[KnG818]

I hadn’t responded specifically publicly because of not knowing what I was / was not allowed to say during this process. That and I don’t always see how many responses there were. I haven’t put any after market parts on it. The only parts have been put on are ones that the dealership has replaced. I took it to an aftermarket shop for ideas on prices for aftermarket fixes. I’m hesitant to put aftermarket parts considering this is a lease. The first vehicle that I have ever leased. I will have to take the parts back off when I return the vehicle. That and they could say that in putting aftermarket parts on, I voided my warranty on certain parts.

No, it’s not my first Jeep. I had a 2013 JKU that I drove on many long distance drives home from school. Never had a single issue with that and it never steered even remotely close to the way that this $40some thousand piece does. I get that it is not going to drive like my Grand Cherokee. And maybe yours doesn’t have the issue, but that doesn’t mean that everyone that has the same exact complaint is just being over dramatic and that the vehicle is “driving as designed.” You almost sound like you work for Chrysler or a dealership with that shit.

I’ve also had a 19 JLU Sahara for a rental and went to the dealership and test drove a 2019 Sport for comparison and neither drove the way that mine does.

Thanks for your astute observations though.

No I dont work for chrysler...am honesty trying to help.

My Rubicon is fully custom from the ground up...fully custom. I know a thing or two.

The problem I have here is, defective steering can only be caused by only a handful of easily diagnosable things.

It's hard to believe, if it is defective, it hasnt been fixed after all this time(you've been posting this for months)...especially if the FCA is or has been involved.

What psi your tires at? ....just curious

No way on earth your telling me your JK handled better than the JL.

If your JL is THAT BAD why you driving it? That to me would be insane.

 

[Squibbles]

My experience is NOT to do arbitration. Go the legal route straight away.

Reasons:
1.) I did arbitration for my 2019 JLU bought in 3/19 because of 2 inch of steering play and because Jeep told me "to live if it, there is nothing they can do" after 35 days in workshop. They agreed that it drives like a 50 year old panel van with worn out steering but it is not worse compared to other JLU's on the lot.
2.) I lost arbitration since in FCA eyes I could not demonstrate one of the three things:
a.) loss in value,
b.) safety issue
c.) limitation of use

Arbitration result:
Value:
There is no limitation of value since there is nothing wrong with the JLU !!!!!!
Safety:
Since I had no accidents ( and I am still alive) the vehicle is safe. Despite the fact that my JLU can not be driven in a straight line since the steering play is forcing the driver to continuously to correct.
Use:
I drove 10800 mls up to the date of arbitration and this is more than average. Therefore there is no limitation of use.

The NCDS arbitrator was an arrogant guy who just followed FCA's lawyers line. I feel this process is pretty rigged towards the car manufacturers. Nobody cared that I had to take my lift out and make my JLU stock to even have a chance in arbitration. And even then the FCA lawyer argumented that the previous (Non Mopar) lift might have damaged the vehicle in a way and that I was responsible for the steering issue.

An additional issue with arbitration came up two days ago and this issue is very concerning. Since the arbitrator and FCA found that there is nothing wrong and 2 inches of steering play is normal, the regional Jeep manager instructed my dealer not to entertain any steering related warranty work on my JLU since there are " Things are going on with this Jeep and its owner" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Background:
After the arbitration decision I switched the dealerships. They took the JLU in and told me that they are not sure if Jeep with pay for the rental car. but they gave me a rental car. The dealership the first time did a good job and consulted a FCA engineer. This engineer found the steering gear to be defective and to be replaced additionally they found tool marks on the steering gear. At this time the regional FCA manager got involved. She shut down the hole repair process and they charged me 5 days of car rental. I made the mistake to try to adjust the steering gear adjustment screw by an 1/8. It improved the steering a little bit but not much. Therefore I put it back to spec after a test drive. Unfortunately my desperate search for a solution to the steering problem backfired badly.


Lessons learned:
1.) If you deal with a problem which has no official FCA solution , take a lawyer,
2) If you have a problem which is not fixed by FCA DO NOT USE the vehicle! Drop it off at FCA dealerships and request rental cars. Have your safety concerns stated in the repair request. If the vehicle is not fixed after a repair bring it back immediately and request a rental car. If the do not give you a rental car anymore, get a lawyer and pay for the rental yourself. Do not be nice to the the dealer. Nobody in the dealership is going to hug you after you lost an arbitration case!
3.) Warranty is not worth a thing if it is denied.
4.) Do not buy a new FCA vehicle and do not buy a model which is not at least 3 years in the market. FCA seem to have a big issue with their suppliers and quality control and is solving their issues on the back of their customers.
5) This is the last FCA vehicle I will have bought new.
6.) I spent so far about 200 hours and $2000 fighting FCA with the result that I am on my own. Now I have to spent another $1500 to replace the steering gear.
7.) Do not think of burning your car, taking a hammer to it in front of TV cameras and the dealership. Do not run it of the road or against a tree. I thought already of all of it. Take a lawyer.

Would you buy a Jeep again?

 

[Rdmitch]

In most states there is a fee shifting clause that will require FCA to pay your attorney fees
due to a breach of warranty. This is what this issue will fall under. Your attorney, if up to speed on these lemon law issues will understand how to approach the problem.

 

[Rdmitch]

I hadn’t responded specifically publicly because of not knowing what I was / was not allowed to say during this process. That and I don’t always see how many responses there were. I haven’t put any after market parts on it. The only parts have been put on are ones that the dealership has replaced. I took it to an aftermarket shop for ideas on prices for aftermarket fixes. I’m hesitant to put aftermarket parts considering this is a lease. The first vehicle that I have ever leased. I will have to take the parts back off when I return the vehicle. That and they could say that in putting aftermarket parts on, I voided my warranty on certain parts.

No, it’s not my first Jeep. I had a 2013 JKU that I drove on many long distance drives home from school. Never had a single issue with that and it never steered even remotely close to the way that this $40some thousand piece does. I get that it is not going to drive like my Grand Cherokee. And maybe yours doesn’t have the issue, but that doesn’t mean that everyone that has the same exact complaint is just being over dramatic and that the vehicle is “driving as designed.” You almost sound like you work for Chrysler or a dealership with that shit.

I’ve also had a 19 JLU Sahara for a rental and went to the dealership and test drove a 2019 Sport for comparison and neither drove the way that mine does.

Thanks for your astute observations though.

Good answer

 

[KnG818]

In most states there is a fee shifting clause that will require FCA to pay your attorney fees
due to a breach of warranty. This is what this issue will fall under. Your attorney, if up to speed on these lemon law issues will understand how to approach the problem.

....but there is no breach LOL

what's the breach of warranty?....that the Jeep drives and functions like a Jeep?

 

[RagTopDeluxe]

It's hard to believe, if it is defective, it hasnt been fixed after all this time(you've been posting this for months)...especially if the FCA is or has been involved.

What psi your tires at? ....just curious

No way on earth your telling me your JK handled better than the JL.

If your JL is THAT BAD why you driving it? That to me would be insane.

Believe it. All of it.

Our built JK drove *much* better than my JLR. The best description I read was driving one of these Jeeps is like going downhill in a wagon and trying to control it.

FCA has been utterly worthless in fixing these JLs with steering issues, which goes way beyond “it’s a Jeep thing.”

 

[Rdmitch]

....but there is no breach LOL

what's the breach of warranty?....that the Jeep drives and functions like a Jeep?

The federal. Manguson-Moss act treats issues that connot be repaired as a breach of warranty since a vehicle has an warranty to function safely and properly and repairs to this warranty must be satisfactory to the purchaser. Not being able to repair the problem is a violation (breach) of this warranty and is recoverable per federal law under this act.

Look it up...or ask your attorney.

 

[KnG818]

The federal. Manguson-Moss act treats issues that connot be repaired as a breach of warranty since a vehicle has an warranty to function safely and properly and repairs to this warranty must be satisfactory to the purchaser. Not being able to repair the problem is a violation (breach) of this warranty and is recoverable per federal law under this act.

Look it up...or ask your attorney.

Right, I agree with you on the law part....but not liking(or not satisfied) with the way it handles is not a valid reason for buyback. It's not a defect, it's the way the Jeep handles.

You seem over focused on law and not the fact that "it is what it is".

....like buying a plane ticket and demanding a full refund because your ears kept popping at high altitude after they tried giving you chewing gum to help remedy the popping.

Sorry, it's what you bought.

 

[Rdmitch]

Right, I agree with you on the law part....but not liking(or not satisfied) with the way it handles is not a valid reason for buyback. It's not a defect, it's the way the Jeep handles.

You seem over focused on law and not the fact that "it is what it is".

....like buying a plane ticket and demanding a full refund because your ears kept popping at high altitude after they tried giving you chewing gum to help remedy the popping.

Sorry, it's what you bought.

You’ve obviously never driven a JL with the problem. If you have you would understand the issue is not the jeep thing. We all know how a jeep should drive and accept that when we make our purchases. The wandering issue (not play in the steering wheel) is a major issue on a percentage of Jl series vehicles that like to navigate themself from lane to lane.
It is a true defect and since they can’t find a fix it’s a warranty breach.
If you were in my area I would be very pleased to let you take it for a nice little drive, I truly believe you would change your thinking on this matter.

 

[Goin2drt]

The federal. Manguson-Moss act treats issues that connot be repaired as a breach of warranty since a vehicle has an warranty to function safely and properly and repairs to this warranty must be satisfactory to the purchaser. Not being able to repair the problem is a violation (breach) of this warranty and is recoverable per federal law under this act.

Look it up...or ask your attorney.

Here is the problem with your statement. Satisfactory to you could be and will be (guaranteed) different from FCA or any other person for that matter. I may think that same Jeep is fine vs the another person. Proving they are in breach is the work to be done by whomever chooses to go this route.

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