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Knock in rear with Dana 44

Arterius2

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So I have some info from a Dana rep. I live in the Detroit area and we have a new off road park opening next year. Yesterday there was a one time special event (Detroit 4fest) held at the new park. Anyway, jeep, dana and other major companies had booths there. I went to the dana booth and asked if they were familiar with the M220 LSD issues. They guys ask what issues? I explained this thread and how I needed a new rear axle at 3,000 miles and how my new axle already has black oil in it and I'm planning on my third axle. I told him between talking with the dealer and reading info on this thread there is either an issue with the LSD wearing and causing bearing failure(mainly pinon bearing) or bearing failure causing LSD failure. I asked are there going to be new/updated parts available? The guy got a small smile on his face and said I'm sorry that happened to you. He then said he was aware of the issue. He said the problem is caused by premature/excessive wear of the LSD clutch plates. He said the excessive wear causes tip loading of the spider gears and then they fail. The failed gears then send crap into the axle that kills the bearings. He said there are upgraded clutch plates coming but there won't be released until November. I wish I had better news but I got a rep from dana to admit there is an issue, explain the cause, and tell me better parts to resolve the issue are coming. I call that a win?!! He did say if I got another new axle and bought the parts to make it an open diff I would never have a problem He also said I could just get the new upgraded clutch plates, let them break in, and I would also have an open diff!
Did he mention if there is going to be a recall or is this something we have to pay out of pocket and fight with the dealers for?
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Lou_JLU

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2nd Visit: A short update to a long story. (post 514, 546)

The service manager played passenger while I demo'd the sound for him. At first I couldn't get the rotational knocking noise to happen as it is intermittent on my jeep but after a couple acceleration / deceleration cycles I heard the characteristic creak of something unbinding in the back end and thereafter I had no trouble having him hear the rear differential acting up.

The service tech opened up the rear differential and noted the fluid was burnt (I suspect not reportedly burnt but black due to worn clutch packs as moebigslee's Dana contact mentioned earlier post 575) and the spider gears showing wear and movement.The service manager brought me out to see the wear pattern and movement which I estimate to be about 1/16 inch of slop or more.

At this time a new differential carrier and gear set is on order. It may be a little wait but progress is moving in the right direction.

Thanks to the information from other ops posting here, JeepCares "Alex" and FCA case workers Mimi and Daveah for facilitating this issue forward.
 
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moebigslee

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Did he mention if there is going to be a recall or is this something we have to pay out of pocket and fight with the dealers for?
There was no mention of a recall and I don't think the guy I spoke with was at a level to be in on a decision like that. If it were me I would not hold my breath on there being a recall. The auto makers are in the business of making money....not sterling reputations or caring about the little guy. Shouldn't be like that but unfortunately I think it is.
 

brewtus98

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So I have some info from a Dana rep. I live in the Detroit area and we have a new off road park opening next year. Yesterday there was a one time special event (Detroit 4fest) held at the new park. Anyway, jeep, dana and other major companies had booths there. I went to the dana booth and asked if they were familiar with the M220 LSD issues. They guys ask what issues? I explained this thread and how I needed a new rear axle at 3,000 miles and how my new axle already has black oil in it and I'm planning on my third axle. I told him between talking with the dealer and reading info on this thread there is either an issue with the LSD wearing and causing bearing failure(mainly pinon bearing) or bearing failure causing LSD failure. I asked are there going to be new/updated parts available? The guy got a small smile on his face and said I'm sorry that happened to you. He then said he was aware of the issue. He said the problem is caused by premature/excessive wear of the LSD clutch plates. He said the excessive wear causes tip loading of the spider gears and then they fail. The failed gears then send crap into the axle that kills the bearings. He said there are upgraded clutch plates coming but there won't be released until November. I wish I had better news but I got a rep from dana to admit there is an issue, explain the cause, and tell me better parts to resolve the issue are coming. I call that a win?!! He did say if I got another new axle and bought the parts to make it an open diff I would never have a problem He also said I could just get the new upgraded clutch plates, let them break in, and I would also have an open diff!
The next logical question is for those of us that don't have an issue now, what to do? Change the fluid frequently to help prevent a failure and if it fails after a fluid change have FCA/dealer blame a subsequent failure on self-maintenance?? Just like steering damper issues, clutch plates have been used in LSDs for decades and now we have problems!!!! This is not new technology. SO far I am about 13xxx miles and no issues. Worried about it failing AFTER warranty is up.
 

zzman930

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Update on mine. Dealer decided to determine it as the rear driveshaft so they ordered one and replaced it. Changed nothing as I suspected. Told them about this thread and they said it doesnā€™t matter, in their eyes itā€™s just writing. On the plus side they are putting chassis ears back on and hopefully they will move towards opening up the rear diff soon.
 

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zzman930

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Another update on mine: just got a call from the dealer. They ended up opening the rear diff and they said the fluid looked burnt and the LSD was not functioning at all how it should have been. They tried to order just new clutch plates but they canā€™t order that part alone apparently so they ordered a new rear diff kit to replace the innards. Parts should be here 2-5 days
 

CanAmMick

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Our Jeep has been in the shop since the 18th for a rotational knock. The dealership called Friday and told us that the parts came in that morning. Hopefully weā€™ll be able to pick it up sometime Monday unless they have other issues.

I will have to say that our dealership in Sheridan Wy has been great to work with. Every time weā€™ve had it in the shop for warranty work or when theyā€™ve install our aftermarket accessories theyā€™ve always kept us well informed on what was going on.

Once we get it back, Iā€™ll be sure to let everyone know what they replaced.
 

Mojito

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How can it be clutch plates when BRAND NEW VEHICLE only has 2-4 miles on the speedo?
All of them on the lot had the same issue. Went to different dealership and same thing.
Mechanic said donā€™t buy one until the fix.
To late...
 

zzman930

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Update on my Jeep: after an entire month in the shop it is finally fixed. They ended up replacing the innards of the rear diff and there is no more knocking. I hope that it stays that way but I guess we will see
 

4LowPhoto

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Hi Ryan,

If it would be of interest, I would be more than happy to have this concern formally documented and connect you with a case specialist for an additional layer of assistance while your Wrangler is in service. Please follow up with me via PM to get the process started, hope to hear from you soon!

Mark
Jeep Social Care Specialist
Can I get this please, my dealer simply will not even look it. Claiming it's my tires. Even though I put the stock ones back on, and it still does it. thanks
 

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luna4x4

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Update on my situation:

TLDR: dealership replaced rear differential, issue resolved.

I took the Jeep in two days ago and was able to get a tech to ride with me while I reproduced the problem. I mentioned this thread and mentioned that other owners who had this issue reported burnt oil and metal debris in the rear differential.

I got a call later that day and was told a whole new differential was going to be ordered and that it would take a couple of days. Fast forward to today and I got a call that the repair was complete. Total repair took around 2 days.

I picked my Jeep up and immediately drove to closest neighborhood to see if the dealership fixed it. I'm happy to report that replacing the rear differential resolved my issue!

Here is a copy of the job log for the repair:

"Found rear differential making noise at low speeds. Removed differential cover and found burnt oil with metal debris. Inspected vehicle pinon backlash and found with play. Removed carrier and found spider gear worn out and clutches due to metal debris and backlash having play. Inspected vehicle bearings and found worn out causing vehicle to make noise at low speeds. Performed complete replacement of rear differential due to internal failure and metal contamination on the housing."

Having a tech ride with you before starting any repair work is key. Hope this helps someone.
 

D60

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Update on my situation:

TLDR: dealership replaced rear differential, issue resolved.

I took the Jeep in two days ago and was able to get a tech to ride with me while I reproduced the problem. I mentioned this thread and mentioned that other owners who had this issue reported burnt oil and metal debris in the rear differential.

I got a call later that day and was told a whole new differential was going to be ordered and that it would take a couple of days. Fast forward to today and I got a call that the repair was complete. Total repair took around 2 days.

I picked my Jeep up and immediately drove to closest neighborhood to see if the dealership fixed it. I'm happy to report that replacing the rear differential resolved my issue!

Here is a copy of the job log for the repair:

"Found rear differential making noise at low speeds. Removed differential cover and found burnt oil with metal debris. Inspected vehicle pinon backlash and found with play. Removed carrier and found spider gear worn out and clutches due to metal debris and backlash having play. Inspected vehicle bearings and found worn out causing vehicle to make noise at low speeds. Performed complete replacement of rear differential due to internal failure and metal contamination on the housing."

Having a tech ride with you before starting any repair work is key. Hope this helps someone.
Thank you. So this backs up what has been suggested: clutches wear, side/spider gears start playing footsie and bad things start happening.

Too bad Dana couldn't build a reliable limited grip.....
 

brewtus98

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Update on my situation:

TLDR: dealership replaced rear differential, issue resolved.

I took the Jeep in two days ago and was able to get a tech to ride with me while I reproduced the problem. I mentioned this thread and mentioned that other owners who had this issue reported burnt oil and metal debris in the rear differential.

I got a call later that day and was told a whole new differential was going to be ordered and that it would take a couple of days. Fast forward to today and I got a call that the repair was complete. Total repair took around 2 days.

I picked my Jeep up and immediately drove to closest neighborhood to see if the dealership fixed it. I'm happy to report that replacing the rear differential resolved my issue!

Here is a copy of the job log for the repair:

"Found rear differential making noise at low speeds. Removed differential cover and found burnt oil with metal debris. Inspected vehicle pinon backlash and found with play. Removed carrier and found spider gear worn out and clutches due to metal debris and backlash having play. Inspected vehicle bearings and found worn out causing vehicle to make noise at low speeds. Performed complete replacement of rear differential due to internal failure and metal contamination on the housing."

Having a tech ride with you before starting any repair work is key. Hope this helps someone.
Did the replacement axle have a new/different part number? Any design/material changes to prevent repeat failure?
 

brewtus98

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Hi Everyone,

Our teams are aware of this concern. Our executive leadership is engaged and working with the appropriate parties to have a resolution implemented as soon as possible. In the meantime, if you are experiencing a clunk/knock/thump, please make an appointment with your dealer and send us a private message. We are happy to create and escalate a case on your behalf to have additional assistance throughout the repair process.

Darlene
Jeep Social Listening Analyst
I refer back to this post, for which I haven't seen any further updates on this forum - unless I missed it.
 

brewtus98

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So I have some info from a Dana rep. I live in the Detroit area and we have a new off road park opening next year. Yesterday there was a one time special event (Detroit 4fest) held at the new park. Anyway, jeep, dana and other major companies had booths there. I went to the dana booth and asked if they were familiar with the M220 LSD issues. They guys ask what issues? I explained this thread and how I needed a new rear axle at 3,000 miles and how my new axle already has black oil in it and I'm planning on my third axle. I told him between talking with the dealer and reading info on this thread there is either an issue with the LSD wearing and causing bearing failure(mainly pinon bearing) or bearing failure causing LSD failure. I asked are there going to be new/updated parts available? The guy got a small smile on his face and said I'm sorry that happened to you. He then said he was aware of the issue. He said the problem is caused by premature/excessive wear of the LSD clutch plates. He said the excessive wear causes tip loading of the spider gears and then they fail. The failed gears then send crap into the axle that kills the bearings. He said there are upgraded clutch plates coming but there won't be released until November. I wish I had better news but I got a rep from dana to admit there is an issue, explain the cause, and tell me better parts to resolve the issue are coming. I call that a win?!! He did say if I got another new axle and bought the parts to make it an open diff I would never have a problem He also said I could just get the new upgraded clutch plates, let them break in, and I would also have an open diff!
Or this one.....
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