College isn't worth it

[OldGuyNewJeep]

"College isn't worth it" is a very broad statement. Is it for everyone? No. Just ask Judge Smails:



Is it required for certain professions, and can it open doors? ABSOLUTELY.

I won't pay for any of my three kids to go "earn" a degree in something silly (I'm looking at you, Women's Studies), but my oldest is off to college next year to pursue a degree in electrical engineering. He's going to UConn because we live in CT and I think that paying private school tuition is absurd. Guess what? You can't expect to find a career in STEM without a college degree. Ditto for teacher, doctor, lawyer, etc. Hell, in CT we require our teachers to have a Master's degree.

If it's not for you (or your kid), there is high demand for skilled labor. Learn a trade and maybe start a business. Awesome. To come here and say that "college isn't worth it," however, is ignorant. "Going into debt to pay for a degree in something useless" I can get behind, but not "college isn't worth it." I mean, community college is affordable by anyone just about who's willing to work.

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[00Sebby]

It's like everything else... your results may vary. Based on personal experience, I totally disagree with the premise of the title of this thread. For my family, college has been worth a lot. My wife went from stay-at-home mom until the boys were in junior high/high school then finished her bachelors, masters and PhD to become a college professor. I built most of my career with AS degrees but finally had to get my bachelors and MBA to keep up with my job. Fortunately I was laid off as I finished my MBA and fell into consulting through people I met in the MBA program.

She has a great income and benefits as a professor working 30-ish weeks per year. I now make twice as much as I did in my prior management position working 60-70 hour weeks but I only work 10 to 15 days per month on average and can take off whenever I like. Neither of us could have the jobs/income/freedom we now have without the college degrees as neither of us are very entrepreneurial or extremely talented.

My oldest son got scholarships/assistantships/etc. that paid his way through his masters with little debt incurred. Started his first real job with a nice income. Youngest son got several scholarships and has started his undergrad to become an economist. Neither of them are entrepreneurial, interested in trades, etc. but both have always been good in school, so college is an obvious path.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

The other problem is the worthless degrees

"College isn't worth it" is a very broad statement. Is it for everyone? No. Just ask Judge Smails:



Is it required for certain professions, and can it open doors? ABSOLUTELY.

I won't pay for any of my three kids to go "earn" a degree in something silly (I'm looking at you, Women's Studies), but my oldest is off to college next year to pursue a degree in electrical engineering. He's going to UConn because we live in CT and I think that paying private school tuition is absurd. Guess what? You can't expect to find a career in STEM without a college degree. Ditto for teacher, doctor, lawyer, etc. Hell, in CT we require our teachers to have a Master's degree.

If it's not for you (or your kid), there is high demand for skilled labor. Learn a trade and maybe start a business. Awesome. To come here and say that "college isn't worth it," however, is ignorant. "Going into debt to pay for a degree in something useless" I can get behind, but not "college isn't worth it." I mean, community college is affordable by anyone just about who's willing to work.

Didn't you see where I said STEM, Law, Medicine (just found out the M stand for math >.>) and Education are the only fields that require a degree? Kinda missed that point there, didn't you.

By the time my future kids are college age, it'll probably of collapsed onto itself.

Still waiting for a millennial like me to say it wasn't/isn't worth it and they say it's trade/voc or bust, as most of you guys are older with families and kids here

 

[Kluk Ztopolovky]

Definitely agree it’s not for everyone. All depends on your end goal. Some careers do require a bachelor degree.
Have a cousin that’s a welder and makes 6 figures. Only did trade school which his company helped pay for (he started welding in HS and then did apprenticeship). Another is a teacher which does require schooling. (Their low pay is another topic entirely haha).

Yes , welders make nice dollar but I couldn't be welding day after day , you could pay people any money but there are jobs which can be performed well by some and others wouldn't last long regardless their earnings. I couldn't work for instance at a car plant only to become a human robot just as I couldn't be washing windows on skyscrapers. : )

 

[Chipe]

Lawyer:doctor:priest:teacher:nurse:accountant:engineer:finance:hr:pilots:computer hardware design: pharmacy:veterinarian:medical technology:operations manager:chemist:botanist:oceanography:archaeology:entomologist:therapists:medical/hospital management:armed forces officer:FBI:prosthetics:"........................

Definitely worth it IMHO since you can’t do them 99.7% of the time without at least a bachelors. Most you need advanced degrees.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Lawyer:doctor:priest:teacher:nurse:accountant:engineer:finance:hr:pilots:computer hardware design: pharmacy:veterinarian:medical technology:operations manager:chemist:botanist:oceanography:archaeology:entomologist:therapists:medical/hospital management:armed forces officer:FBI:prosthetics:"........................

Definitely worth it IMHO since you can’t do them 99.7% of the time without at least a bachelors. Most you need advanced degrees.

You need a degree to be a priest?? If you got the skills, you don't need a degree to design computer hardware, just learn on the internet and diy

Isn't that like 10-11% of the market? More niche these days basically, rest of the market basically doesn't require a degree you're saying.

 

[Chipe]

You need a degree to be a priest?? If you got the skills, you don't need a degree to design computer hardware, just learn on the internet and diy

Isn't that like 10-11% of the market? More niche these days basically, rest of the market basically doesn't require a degree you're saying.

Lol. Yes, you need a Bachelors, Masters and then 3 years of Seminary, at least to become an Episcopal Priest. Same in UCC, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, American Baptist and most mainline denominations.

 

[SoCalWrangler]

The whole debate about a 4 year college being better then college or vice versa is completely irrelevant as a persons drive for success is significantly more important.

There are bums on both sides and there are winners killing it everyday at what they do. A person drive is really the main determining factor to their financial success... unless your a trust fund baby then all of society hates you.

 

[crazychile]

The other problem is the worthless degrees

Right. Somewhere along the way when college became the defacto post high school plan, some people decided that ANY college degree would create opportunities for them and saw it as the easy road to job security. Then wondered why they couldn't get a job and couldnt pay back the loans.

During my first degree I needed extra credits so that I would have enough at that specific University. This was as I was nearing the completion of all my major classes (in Business). So I took a bunch of art classes as filler to build credits. It was like recess between the classes that I actually had to study for. When I graduated with my business degree I was essentially 1 class short of an Art minor.

Right before I graduated, my favorite Art teacher pushed HARD to convince me to pursue a Masters in Art, because she thought I was exceptionally talented. My response to her was a respectful, "But I don't want to live out of the back of my truck to get a degree that is already over represented and too few jobs." Had I done it, it would have been disastrous, not to mention I was already managing a small business and was making more money than most people right out of college. I wanted to be done with school and get on with my life.

I loved doing metal sculpture, but that is a HOBBY, not a career in 99% of cases. If you want to get some foo-foo degree, get it when you retire or already financially secure and do it for your own personal enrichment. Not with the illusion that you're going to be able to afford rent and food with something like that as your sole degree.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

The whole debate about a 4 year college being better then college or vice versa is completely irrelevant as a persons drive for success is significantly more important.

There are bums on both sides and there are winners killing it everyday at what they do. A person drive is really the main determining factor to their financial success... unless your a trust fund baby then all of society hates you.

I absolutely disagree. For many professions a lack of a degree is a bar to entry at all, no matter how driven toward success a person may be.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

I think all parents who care should sit their kids down and explain that not all degrees are worth it, that anything that isn't STEM, Law, Medicine or Education is better off at Voc and that they'll be disowned if they pursue a major in anything that ends in "Studies", or if you're Asian, you'll dishonor the family

 

[00Sebby]

I think all parents who care should sit their kids down and explain that not all degrees are worth it, that anything that isn't STEM, Law, Medicine or Education is better off at Voc and that they'll be disowned if they pursue a major in anything that ends in "Studies", or if you're Asian, you'll dishonor the family

I often thought the same way. However, after spending about 3.5 years pursuing a PhD in Natural Resources, I saw several young people get good jobs in Ag and Forestry, with a few going on to get their PhDs for teaching.

My oldest son (now 24 yrs old) went into journalism and he graduated this summer with his Masters. Worthless, right? He just started a job with a local PR firm earning as much as an average manufacturing/industrial engineer with mandatory no-more-than 8hr workdays, no weekends, early Friday work stop where the last hour of day is socializing with team, enjoying beer, wine, etc. all paid for and on-the-clock.

I, on the other hand, spent 20+ years in automotive parts manufacturing working 50-70 hour weeks. Yes, pay was good but the jobs sucked and there was no free time. That's kind of what I see with kids getting out of voc school whether it's auto body, welding, going to work in oil fields, etc... they're working their a$$es off and make good money, but they're always going to be working like a machine to do so.

Like someone above said. It's all about drive first. A person with drive will be successful. But passion comes second. With both one can probably be successful at anything. Without drive or ambition, one will get mediocre results. Without passion, one will always be working for a paycheck and if lucky will be able to tolerate it.

 

[Chipe]

You need a degree to be a priest?? If you got the skills, you don't need a degree to design computer hardware, just learn on the internet and diy

Isn't that like 10-11% of the market? More niche these days basically, rest of the market basically doesn't require a degree you're saying.

I guess what I am saying is that white-collar professional, high paying jobs need degrees (being a priest doesn't pay well btw). Blue collar, which is probably 60-70% of the workforce, no or some college. Vocational School is necessary for some, even if it's OJT.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

I guess what I am saying is that white-collar professional, high paying jobs need degrees (being a priest doesn't pay well btw). Blue collar, which is probably 60-70% of the workforce, no or some college. Vocational School is necessary for some, even if it's OJT.

Yet plenty of self made millionaires and billionaires didn't finish

Definitely a hell of a thread here btw

 

[Chipe]

Yet plenty of self made millionaires and billionaires didn't finish

Definitely a hell of a thread here btw

Yes, too both. . I don't know about the plenty though. For every Bill Gates, Ted Waitt, Michael Dell, etc., there are millions and millions of people making minimum or just above minimum wage. We are fast becoming a nation with no middle class, just the haves and the have nots. I attribute part of this to your original point: college isn't necessary for a lot of good paying jobs, but somehow we have bought into the idea that a college degree is somehow a "ticket" in to just that. But when you put crippling debt onto that ticket, then you have the working poor trying to pay back what they borrowed. It's a terrible cycle.

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