College isn't worth it

[Rogues Gambit]

Piggybacking off my comment on this thread: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...ing-more-for-new-job.38009/page-3#post-846847 (#42), if you're not going for STEM, Law or Education, you're just wasting your time



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/7-re...guE4QIyXvMYK4Of-7163X_Y8IM06GNofdaD1nM-YwfMjE
https://owlcation.com/academia/Top-6-Reasons-College-Is-Overrated

And of course:

Discuss

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[beachbumm78]

Definitely agree it’s not for everyone. All depends on your end goal. Some careers do require a bachelor degree.
Have a cousin that’s a welder and makes 6 figures. Only did trade school which his company helped pay for (he started welding in HS and then did apprenticeship). Another is a teacher which does require schooling. (Their low pay is another topic entirely haha).

 

[IndustrialAction]

If you want a white-collar job, you need to have at least a bachelor's. I wouldn't hire anyone who didn't have one. Now if that's not your ambition, skip it and learn a trade.

I will say that I got an average bachelor's from a state university, came out with a bit of debt which has been paid off and I earn more than enough to afford my JLUR and all the goodies I add to it. Any time I see guys hanging off the side of my building cleaning windows or fixing plumbing issues or out sweating their asses off on the new metro line, I am thankful that I went to college.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

If you want a white-collar job, you need to have at least a bachelor's. I wouldn't hire anyone who didn't have one. Now if that's not your ambition, skip it and learn a trade.

I will say that I got an average bachelor's from a state university, came out with a bit of debt which has been paid off and I earn more than enough to afford my JLUR and all the goodies I add to it. Any time I see guys hanging off the side of my building cleaning windows or fixing plumbing issues or out sweating their asses off on the new metro line, I am thankful that I went to college.

See, that's the other flip side, go to a cheap community college and get a basic bachelors, then call it a day. I've worked in the fields before, and while it's not glamorous, I was more thankful to be making $$$ than wasting it in school

Definitely agree it’s not for everyone. All depends on your end goal. Some careers do require a bachelor degree.
Have a cousin that’s a welder and makes 6 figures. Only did trade school which his company helped pay for (he started welding in HS and then did apprenticeship). Another is a teacher which does require schooling. (Their low pay is another topic entirely haha).

My nephew is going to Montclair for teaching. If you ever seen the F&F Parody Superfast, at one point, the villain wants them to drive his car for $100k as he can't afford to pay off all the tickets due to lack of insurance, which the One guy keeps pointing out "The math doesn't add up"

Now if you're like my Brother in law, whose a Radiologist, and getting offers ranging from $500k to a Mil, then yeah, go to collage, otherwise, learn a trade, save your $$$, and start your own business, work your way to the top

 

[Rogues Gambit]

The 7 steps to your kid becoming an entrepreneur:

1. They go to Trade School
2. They get hired after graduating
3. They get experience, pay off what little debt and save
4. They eventually have enough $$$ to buy a cheap truck and office space
5. They build things up and expand
6. The time it would of taken them to pay off their debts, they've got a house, a good business and possible a family
7. Thank me later for this

Ok, more 5 with 6 and 7 basically being overdrive, but still

 

[Flyslinger2]

One of my pet peeves.

Perfect example is one family that I know who sent all 5 kids to college. Maxed out all possible school loans. One child rebooted his college career several times which ultimately took 7 years to finish. Went to an expensive private school. Probably around $150K in school debt. Children 2 to 4 all finished in 4 years. All got jobs at WaWa or the equivalent after school. So they are barely making minimum wage and still living at home with their parents. All total, those parents have in excess of $500K student loan debt they signed up for. That's outrageous.

All of our children were home-schooled with a curriculum that is CBT. We assumed that most jobs they would have would be computer based and we were correct. Two of our children got jobs with security companies that got them a Top Secret clearance. As soon as they got that they were in high demand. They were hired by tech firms and those companies are paying for their college. ALL. OF. IT. One other child did his entire 4 years of college online full-time, while working full-time and volunteering significant hours each week to a charity. He had a 3.8 GPA. Another child did the company paid apprenticeship program with his company and he is now making $150K a year at age 30.

I firmly believe that no parent should ever pay for their children's college. You are doing them a huge disservice. You should be teaching them how to navigate the education process to be debt free or almost when you are finished. My son that did the online courses had a small student load which he paid off within a few months. Plenty of companies are willing to subsidize education. You can get part time jobs that require clearances and make yourself more marketable.

The student loan game has created a very greedy animal in the form of tenured professors that may work 10 or 20 hours a week and are getting substantial salaries. Yes, some have requirements to publish, do research or teach elsewhere but they still are making serious bank. College and University budgets have increased by 10 to 20% each year for decades. Why can they do this? Because of all the free money that has been provided by the school loans which is backed by our federal government, i.e. you and me. We, through our taxes, are paying for others to go to college and we get nothing for it: no education, no diploma, no amazing job offers, nothing. The only thing we get are politicians who keep saying we aren't paying enough and should pay more. AHHHHHHHHHHH

My children are very gracious with their compliments to my wife and I about how we planned for their education. They have seen their peers screw up their lives with meaningless college adventures and end up with mountains of debt and no way out.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

One of my pet peeves.

Perfect example is one family that I know who sent all 5 kids to college. Maxed out all possible school loans. One child rebooted his college career several times which ultimately took 7 years to finish. Went to an expensive private school. Probably around $150K in school debt. Children 2 to 4 all finished in 4 years. All got jobs at WaWa or the equivalent after school. So they are barely making minimum wage and still living at home with their parents. All total, those parents have in excess of $500K student loan debt they signed up for. That's outrageous.

All of our children were home-schooled with a curriculum that is CBT. We assumed that most jobs they would have would be computer based and we were correct. Two of our children got jobs with security companies that got them a Top Secret clearance. As soon as they got that they were in high demand. They were hired by tech firms and those companies are paying for their college. ALL. OF. IT. One other child did his entire 4 years of college online full-time, while working full-time and volunteering significant hours each week to a charity. He had a 3.8 GPA. Another child did the company paid apprenticeship program with his company and he is now making $150K a year at age 30.

I firmly believe that no parent should ever pay for their children's college. You are doing them a huge disservice. You should be teaching them how to navigate the education process to be debt free or almost when you are finished. My son that did the online courses had a small student load which he paid off within a few months. Plenty of companies are willing to subsidize education. You can get part time jobs that require clearances and make yourself more marketable.

The student loan game has created a very greedy animal in the form of tenured professors that may work 10 or 20 hours a week and are getting substantial salaries. Yes, some have requirements to publish, do research or teach elsewhere but they still are making serious bank. College and University budgets have increased by 10 to 20% each year for decades. Why can they do this? Because of all the free money that has been provided by the school loans which is backed by our federal government, i.e. you and me. We, through our taxes, are paying for others to go to college and we get nothing for it: no education, no diploma, no amazing job offers, nothing. The only thing we get are politicians who keep saying we aren't paying enough and should pay more. AHHHHHHHHHHH

My children are very gracious with their compliments to my wife and I about how we planned for their education. They have seen their peers screw up their lives with meaningless college adventures and end up with mountains of debt and no way out.

I'm actually gonna take notes from you, as I don't even have a gf yet and wanna be as far ahead of the curve as possible, though always did wanna home or private school them.

Exactly, HOW MANY people do I know or have met who winded up making my coffee or something equivalent years later, or went to school for one thing and wound up doing something completely different.

I get it, most people were indoctrinated with "College or Bust", with the image of the frumpy blue collar worker vs Savvy looking White collar working with a $15-20k difference between them, but as I've learned, it's the 21st Century and collage is essentially an outdated system with a ponzi scheme called student loans.

Either parents should do what you do, or if not, Plan B is trade/voc. Plan Z is win the lottery, but I digress xD

 

[Kona Damien]

College inflation is off the charts. I think they have close to pricing themselves out of existence or at least making themselves much less significant in most people’s life plans. This is why there is such a push for free college. I think you should really consider if your children should go to college right out of high school. If they know what they want to do and are sure of it, send them. I agree that sending your child to a school to put them and/or you into 6 figure debt just so they can find themselves is a horrible idea.

There is an excellent way to get your college for free and gain life experience. Join the military! You can enlist and get the GI bill or ROTC or obtain a commission or the truly amazing student can get into one of the academies.

 

[Flyslinger2]

College inflation is off the charts. I think they have close to pricing themselves out of existence or at least making themselves much less significant in most people’s life plans. This is why there is such a push for free college. I think you should really consider if your children should go to college right out of high school. If they know what they want to do and are sure of it, send them. I agree that sending your child to a school to put them and/or you into 6 figure debt just so they can find themselves is a horrible idea.

There is an excellent way to get your college for free and gain life experience. Join the military! You can enlist and get the GI bill or ROTC or obtain a commission or the truly amazing student can get into one of the academies.

This. Serve others. Make money. Get an education. Get experience.

 

[cbrenthus]

There are many options out there that nobody wants to talk about. Only idiots are paying full price for Bachelor degrees. I went to community college for about a grand a semester and paid cash. Then, after earning my AA, I transferred to an expensive, local university, and received scholarships and grants due to my high grades at CC. Lived off campus, worked full time, and financed my tuition. I earned my Bachelors from a great university for about 1/8th of what it would have cost to go outright, and while I have student loans, they are consolidated and low interest so not very high on my pay-off priority list.

I'm also very much against student loan forgiveness because of this. I'm sick of hearing that the poor Drama majors can't afford their 6 figure student loans because the best job they can find is working a counter for minimum wage. Cry me a river (oh wait, you're probably not that great an actor even though you have a prestigious acting degree ). I majored in Business and Management Information Systems, which wasn't much fun but has much better prospects once out of school.

The bottom line is that this whole "college is too expensive please pay off my loans" phenomenon is happening because a ton of spoiled brats have gone to college with no regard to the ROI they would receive.

I'm also very supportive of trade schools as well.

Oh, and I almost forgot, I did a semester majoring in Marine Biology right after high school. After a few labs where I saw how 40 year old Marine Biologists lived, I decided not to continue the next semester. I took a few years off and worked until I had my head on straight. I also suggest taking a gap year for high school grads - after 13+ years of school take a freakin' year off and figure out what you want to do.

 

[JP18]

Look into the apprenticeship system in Germany. Very interesting. And very un-American LOL

JP18

 

[dsgrey]

It's not for everyone nor required for every job. I commuted to a local state school MANY years ago, worked part-time and graduated without any debt. In my field, you must have a BS. 2 of my 3 kids did the same - attended local state school and I paid for it with my annualized cost being around $600 a month for books and tuition plus they worked part-time while going to school. Those 2 believe it was worth it plus they have no debt. This was fairly recent since all 3 are still in their 20s. I know plenty of people who financed "the experience" of living on campus at a large university and never working while also turning a 4 year program into a 6 year party adventure. One of mine is married to a person who is almost 30, never found a successful job with his degrees and is what I deem a professional student now working on his doctorate.

 

[crazychile]

Graduated with first degree in 1995 from a respected state college with a degree that wasnt something stupid. I paid ~$1000 per semester that I paid as I went (also worked almost full time) so when I graduated I had ZERO debt. At that price it was a good investment. At 10x that, which is close to what it is now, probably not a great investment unless its a STEM degree where you can get hired right away for $50-60k a year or more.

Second degree (STEM) was paid 100% by employer.

Told my 3 kids that Daddy ain't payin' for college. 2 are still in High School with one being encouraged to do trades, (he likes to weld) and the other probably going to college but only with ROTC scholarship.

My oldest is in National Guard and goes to a local University. Her yearly out of pocket expenses are about 1-2k after all the military reimbursements. She has money in the bank and just paid cash for a decent $5500 used car.


edit: Oh and I started my first degree at Community College to get through all the GenEd cheaply. That Community college now costs about 3x what I paid at University in 1995. Crazy

 

[anotherWS6]

It's not for everyone nor required for every job. I commuted to a local state school MANY years ago, worked part-time and graduated without any debt. In my field, you must have a BS. 2 of my 3 kids did the same - attended local state school and I paid for it with my annualized cost being around $600 a month for books and tuition plus they worked part-time while going to school. Those 2 believe it was worth it plus they have no debt. This was fairly recent since all 3 are still in their 20s. I know plenty of people who financed "the experience" of living on campus at a large university and never working while also turning a 4 year program into a 6 year party adventure. One of mine is married to a person who is almost 30, never found a successful job with his degrees and is what I deem a professional student now working on his doctorate.

On campus experience....lol. That scares the shit out of me. Especially when your school is 20 minutes from your parents house. It is good for some, but man what a gamble.

 

[anotherWS6]

Also did first half of my degree at community college and then went to a big name, local university. I graduated at 27 years old. I worked the whole time however. The 2nd, expensive half of college took two years while working full time and married. The first half took 7..... that could have turned out disastrously if not for community college.

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