New 2020 Land Rover Defender vs Jeep JL Wrangler

[AnthemAVM]

It is nice, but you can't take the doors off

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[pablo_max3045]

It is nice, but you can't take the doors off

I wonder what percentage of people actually remove their door. Or even their hard tops for that matter.
I have removed the panels a couple of times, but in the 25 years I have owned CJs or Wranglers I have never once remove the doors. Except my first CJ, but that was to paint them.
When I was last living in Cali and offroading very often, I had only seen a couple of folks with no doors. That was usually only at the dunes though.
I have never seen anyone with the window folded down though.
I did try offroading once with the top off. Took months to get all the dust out of the ac vents. Never again for that.
I was a huge Defender fan. I think it actually looks a lot better and more rugged than a wrangler. The old one I mean. It was also way more practical. It could tow like 5 times what a wrangler can, carry significantly more payload and, best of all, a top that takes a roof rack. It was just built like shit. Half the adventure in mine was repairing that shit box along the way. Still, I love that POS.
The new "defender" is really just a "pretender".
It is just a Discovery sport with a stiffer chassis. People who have climbed underneath have already noted that all the suspension bits are the same.
It will surely be capable offroad, but very fragile. As all air suspension systems are.
I also really hate the new look. It looks like, as others have mentioned, like someone ran a Kia sole gen1 through a copy machine at 1.5 zoom and then stuck some extra plastic bits on it.
That "car" makes me sad.

 

[Ahmed]

Previously I had presented an idea here in this forum about what you will see in the picture below
But Land Rover has done the easiest and most practical work

Many members here offer great ideas but no interaction by officials!

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View attachment 227239

 

[Kyanche]

i can totally see these new Defenders being driven by well paid professional millennials that live on the blvd in $5k a month apartments. and that's the target market for these things. not for off road enthusiasts lol.
......

**i see a TON of new rubicons around here as well which im sure many are also being driven by well paid yuppies who just dont want to look like boujee snobs in a luxury suv lol.

You sound like being a well paid millennial is something to be ashamed of.

Anyway, I appreciate people making boxy SUVs, but I don't really want an SUV. I want a jeep. That's pretty much it. If I weren't buying a shiny blue JL I'd probably just wait to finish paying my JK and buy some kinda sporty roadster of some sort.

Tall wagons are boring stupid vehicles.

 

[JAY]

Autoblog put together a nice comparison chart and article on the 2020 Defender vs 2020 JL Wrangler:

Engines and drivetrains

The Land Rover is the clear high-performance option of these two SUVs. Its base turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder, offered only in the four-door Defender 110, is more powerful than either of the gas engines offered on the Jeep Wrangler. The Wrangler's four-cylinder matches it on torque, at least. The optional turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six in the Defender makes over 100 more horsepower and pound-feet of torque than either Jeep gas engine. But if you're looking for diesel propulsion, along with its associated torque and fuel economy, the Wrangler will be your only option. Final specs haven't been released, but in the Ram 1500, the same engine makes 260 horsepower and 480 pound-feet of torque. Fuel economy hasn't been announced for the Land Rover or the diesel Wrangler. But if fuel economy is a concern, the four-cylinder Wrangler is the most frugal of the SUVs we have numbers on.

As for transmissions, the Wrangler is your only choice if you have to have a manual. It's available on both the two-door and four-door models, but only with the V6 engine. If you don't mind an automatic transmission, both SUVs come with variations on the ZF eight-speed auto.

Getting the power to the wheels is another area where these two SUVs diverge. The Jeep is very traditional with a standard selectable four-wheel-drive system with two-wheel drive, and low- and high-range four-wheel drive modes. On the Sahara, there's an available full-time four-wheel drive mode, but the other modes are still available. On the Land Rover, you get full-time four-wheel drive, the same kind used on the Land Rover Range Rover. Traditional off-road enthusiasts will probably prefer the Wrangler's selectable system, but those looking for simple, seamless four-wheel traction will likely prefer the Defender's full-time system.

Suspension and off-road capability

Here, the Wrangler and Defender go in different directions yet again. The Wrangler relies on very traditional solid front and rear axles for its suspension setup. This allows for lots of axle articulation that helps make sure all four tires are on the ground and moving the SUV forward. To help with this, the Rubicon version offers disconnecting sway bars for further axle articulation as well as front and rear electronic differential lockers to keep power going to all four wheels.

The Defender uses a much more modern suspension setup with independent suspension at both ends. This can provide a more refined on-road driving experience, but can limit axle articulation and lead to having a wheel or two in the air at times when off-roading. Land Rover does include various terrain settings for the drivetrain to improve traction in different driving conditions. It will also offer a locking center differential and automatic locking rear differential to help improve traction.

Suspension design isn't the only thing to look at when considering off-road capability. You also want to see what kind of ground clearance and approach, breakover and departure angles each vehicle has, which determine how steep a hill or object your SUV can climb onto, clear, and descend down without hitting anything expensive. Though the Defender sits the lowest in standard settings, its adjustable suspension can lift it to have 11.5 inches of ground clearance, which is even more than the Wrangler Rubicon's 10.8 inches. As for approach angles, both versions of the Wrangler will let you get started up a steeper hill. But when it comes to cresting and coming down, the Defender, in both 90 and 110 styles, can handle sharper and steeper objects than comparable Wranglers.

Exterior and interior dimensions

Comparing two-door and four-door models, both types of Wrangler are a bit shorter, narrower and lower than the comparable Defenders on the outside. Despite that, the Wrangler does have more head- and legroom for the front passengers, and more rear headroom than the Defender. The Defender has an edge when it comes to front shoulder room and rear legroom. The Defender 110 has an extra bonus in the availability of a third row of seats, something not available on the Wrangler Unlimited.

When it comes to cargo space, the Wrangler has the absolute maximum amount of space available. And when comparing the two-door models, the Wrangler has more space behind the rear seats. But with the four-door models, the Defender 110 has more cargo space behind the second row, something that's possible by having enough room to cram in a third row if desired. The Defender is also the clear choice if you want to tow, as it has a maximum tow rating of 8,200 pounds for both the 90 and 110 versions. The four-door Wrangler Rubicon is only rated up to 3,500 pounds, and the two-door model isn't rated at all. If you want a Wrangler to tow things, you're better off with the Gladiator pickup truck, which can tow up to 7,650 pounds.

Price

The Jeep Wrangler is, unsurprisingly, the more affordable choice. Though pricing hasn't been announced for the 2020 model, it should start at about $30,000 for a base two-door Sport and about $33,000 for a base Wrangler Unlimited Sport. The Land Rover Defender starts at $50,925 for the 110. Pricing hasn't been announced for the 90, which will be available later in 2020, along with pricing.

 

[BDJeep1]

Just a on styling alone, Mark Allen and the Jeep design team did an excellent job keeping the JK true to the brand and history. I have always really liked the Defender but this design lost a lot of the aggressiveness and character of the past. Ve.ry bland and looks like the rest of the LR line-up.

 

[Biohazard]

Really want to like this thing, but after driving a late model discovery around for a week in Utah as a rental, I'll keep my JLUR. All those features are gimmicky. Windshield heater was a bunch of thin wires that reflected light at night, made driving at night very annoying. The infotainment system would randomly shut down while we were driving and require a stop/shutdown/restart to get working again. Lots of creaking and odd feeling handles and locks...Definitely not worth the price premium of a Landover.

I expect this little guy to be the same. Only advantage is the classiness and image of land Rover...which is just a waste anyway

 

[FitBliss]

I will say "jeep take note", Factory Snorkel, Watch water proof Key, Roof rack that support rooftop Tent, Heated seats all rows

 

[VolCntry73]

I wonder what percentage of people actually remove their door. Or even their hard tops for that matter.
I have removed the panels a couple of times, but in the 25 years I have owned CJs or Wranglers I have never once remove the doors. Except my first CJ, but that was to paint them.
When I was last living in Cali and offroading very often, I had only seen a couple of folks with no doors. That was usually only at the dunes though.

If ya never removed your doors, you ain't livin'. My top is down just about any time it's not raining. Doors come off on days that the rain chances are nil.

 

[DaltonGang]

Everything looks great, on paper, but take it to the trails for a while, then see which is better.
Also, if the reliability is anything like the old ones, no thank you. I have seen plenty, that looked fantastic, inside, and out, with an engine and tranny that needed work. It was not worth the price, to fix it. Some just ripped out the engines and trannies, and stuffed Chevy 350 motors, with a Turbo Hydra 350 or 400 tranny inside. Then it was reliab!e, with power to boot. The ones I speak of are the 1990-2005 or so, models.

I've seen the same thing, in Jaguars. English junk. I know, my wife had an S-Type model.

 

[Namib]

The new Defender is what the Discovery should have been... and then they need to do the real Defender replacement.

 

[Andras]

Fabric lol

https://jalopnik.com/what-i-found-when-i-crawled-under-the-2020-land-rover-d-1838080009

I think these are pre-production models, so final finish/materials might be different

 

[Andras]

I have an 2013 LR4 (V8) and a 2018 JLU Rubicon (2.0). I have off road tires on both (31" on the LR4, 35" on the JLU), I off roaded them both. Looks like the new defender is going to be very similar to the LR4 in setup/size/capabilities. Anyhow this is my long term rundown on the LR4 vs JLU:

off road: Obviously JLU is much more capable, and you don't afraid to break stuff. Service on the LR4 starts with a $1k, doesn't matter how small the damage. One of the huge advantage of the Jeep is the option of large tires - you don't have this option on the LR4 (johnson rods give you a bit of options), or the new defender (32" tires).
However overwhelming majority of the LR buyers will never take these off road.

snow: JLU is better in crawling in deep snow (purely due to the 35" tires), but everywhere else the LR is much better. LR is much more stable in slippery conditions, have all time 4wd, independent suspension. I would not dare to go more than 25mph in conditions where LR is stable at 50mph.

on road: this is my big complain on the JLU - really bad on bumpy roads (a lot around NY) at highway speeds. Can be flat out dangerous as the rear end jumps due to the solid axle.

quality: someone complained about LR quality. Well LR had some issues (had LRs since 2006), but my experience is that FCA quality is much much worst (backup camera blue screen, leaking turbo, speaker quality, cabin materials/finish, roadnoise in the cabin). And I'm not even talking about the service department. They are horrible. Everything they touch start to rattle after they put it back together.

However - when it comes to driving satisfaction - I ended up using the JLU as my daily driver, makes me smile every time.
I like some features of the new defender (jump seat is cool, 400hp is nice), but would not take it over the JLU.

 

[mazeppa]

Doug DeMuro comments on the new Defender.

 

[Pig-Pen]

You sound like being a millennial is something to be ashamed of.

well....

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