In praise (or not) of ESS? **NO POLITICS**

[GreyFox]

One good thing about ESS is that I'm teaching my daughter to drive, so it engages when she comes to a complete stop. No guessing for her on if she is completely stopped.

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[okie dokie]

I work on an AFB so i disable it for the stop n go traffic getting through the gate process then dont worry about it at all after that.

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[jellis4148]

It's amazing how people get bent out of shape over technology. It's something new, so some people are going to hate it, regardless of how good it is. I'm sure the manufacturers wouldn't use it, if it wasn't beneficial to some degree. Again, if you don't like it, shut it off. If you do like it, or don't care, leave it on. I'm sure in the next 5 years, there will be something new that people will bitch about. I can see it now, "OMG, I hate this or that. Why are they doing this? It's sooooooo stupid". I remember my grandpa thinking fuel injection was crazy. Having a computer run your car. "It will never work", he said. If it wasn't for technology and advancements, we'd all still be flooding the carburetors on those cold mornings, and using points.

 

[Nvdardx28]

I think that most people could agree that if Jeep just allowed the ESS setting to persist after each turn off, meaning if you want it off it stays off or if you want it on it stays on, then it would make most people happy. Then the people that love it can keep it on all the time, and the people that hate it can leave it off all the time. I personally do not like it and it is the most annoying when going into park as several people in this thread have mentioned.

 

[AnnDee4444]

You have saved money...half a gallon per month x 48 months x $3 per gallon = $72 over 4 years. On a $40-$50k vehicle? Ok...Congrats.

I'm still not convinced it's all "free money", but hey, I'll splurge.

I'll just push the button and leave mine run...or better yet, I programmed around it.

I don't agree with this logic.

Since you already spent money buying the ESS system in the first place you might as well recoup some of the cost. You literally have to do nothing for ESS to work. It takes more time & money to program around it so that you can get the benefit of... spending more money on fuel.

It's OK to turn ESS off if because you don't like it, but to turn it of because it doesn't save enough money is not logical.

 

[word302]

I think that most people could agree that if Jeep just allowed the ESS setting to persist after each turn off, meaning if you want it off it stays off or if you want it on it stays on, then it would make most people happy. Then the people that love it can keep it on all the time, and the people that hate it can leave it off all the time. I personally do not like it and it is the most annoying when going into park as several people in this thread have mentioned.

It wouldn't meet CAFE standards if it didn't default to "on".

 

[Jebiruph]

I have a 3.6.

So how do you know it takes a full rotation to start?? Why would it behave differently from other systems that are more efficient?? My engine (consistently) starts almost instantly. That leads me to believe it is stopping at an optimal point in the firing cycle.

To start the engine, at least one cylinder needs needs to compress and ignite an air/fuel mixture. So you need an intake stroke and a compression stroke, one rotation. A direct injection engine only needs to complete the current compression stroke.

 

[Jebiruph]

Um... HUH??

You're saying a throwout bearing will be ruined simply because the clutch is engaged? So keeping the clutch in for the instant I am slow-stopped at a stop sign is going to wear that out??

Manual transmissions are wearable parts. They wear from use no matter what you do. That being said there is no way that system is so weak that the act of pressing the pedal will ruin that bearing.

I said you are adding extra wear to your throwout hearing, which you are.

 

[noloc45]

Which engine/transmission?

3.6 auto

 

[mwilk012]

I said you are adding extra wear to your throwout hearing, which you are.

So he should do what, roll to a stop in neutral with the clutch out?

 

[Jebiruph]

So he should do what, roll to a stop in neutral with the clutch out?

Follow the quote chain backwards and you will see what I was referring to.

 

[mwilk012]

Follow the quote chain backwards and you will see what I was referring to.

Yea, it seems like you guys are talking about 2 different things. One is about a momentary stop such as a stop sign, the other about prolonged red lights. I can definitely see the recommendation to not hold for nothing, but a momentary stop has almost no realistic alternative.

 

[KDB]

If you are keeping the clutch in just to stop the engine from shutting down, you are adding extra wear to your throwout hearing. I've not heard that the throw out was beefed up for ESS.

I’ve heard that before too but did that routinely in my JK (held clutch in while waiting at a red light) and never had issues with the throw out bearing for the entire time I had it. Bought it new in ‘09 and sold it last year with 150,000 with no clutch or throw out bearing issue ever. Not saying it won’t happen just that my experience didn’t show it to be an issue.

 

[Advanced]

Agreed.


If this thread is going to have any meaningful conversation, I think it is best to state your engine/transmission.

I have a 2.0 and only find the ESS annoying while parking. I have found a way to park and not have it re-start, but it is far too complicated to get right every time (stop --> ESS shuts motor off --> without putting transmission in park, open door --> take foot off of brake --> shift to park --> push ignition button until off). Like I said, too complicated.

If I need to pull-out quickly on a crowded or fast moving road, I either turn ESS it off with the button, or wiggle my foot on the brake so that the motor starts. The foot method took me a few days to figure out, but now I don't even realize I do it.

The longevity obviously is yet to be seen, but I don't think killing & restarting a warm engine has nearly the same wear as a cold start, and ESS is not active until the engine is up to operating temperature (in the 2.0 at least). I am not 100% familiar with all the mechanical bits on the 2.0, but I do like that ESS provides the possibility of less parts (12V battery, alternator, & starter should not needed with the right design).

I have not noticed any fuel mileage increases, but I haven't driven for an extended period of time with ESS disabled. I don't think that the ESS starting the ICS motor uses more fuel than an idling engine, because the ESS is never a cold start. My thoughts on why: During normal driving, a fuel injected engine cuts all fuel when decelerating, and seamlessly restarts the fuel flow when needed. No fuel is used when decelerating. If you shift into neutral while decelerating, the fuel injection will use more fuel than if you just left the vehicle in gear. Now my theory is that the ESS electric motor has enough power to spin the ICE engine back up to idling speed, where the fuel injection can regain control again. No additional fuel is used in getting the motor back up to idling speed. A traditional ICE engine starter probably does not get the engine to idling speed, and additional fuel is needed to help get to idling speed. This is probably also why the 3.6 ESS is not as smooth as the 2.0.

Thank you for above.

We should really focus on how to use the ESS system optimally. The issue of liking it or not is not something I allow myself to think about.

For many of us ESS is something new that we need to learn how to use. The way I drive has changed as a result of ESS. I am often sitting in stop and go traffic and I wish I could have the engine off more off the time. What is noted above on how to keep engine from re-starting when parking is something I have been trying to figure out, thanks again. I will also point out that coming to a slow stop tends to keep engine on and a harder stop will shut off.

My question is has anyone figured out how to get car into neutral to let the car move forward under its own weight without restarting the engine?

 

[word302]

Thank you for above.

We should really focus on how to use the ESS system optimally. The issue of liking it or not is not something I allow myself to think about.

For many of us ESS is something new that we need to learn how to use. The way I drive has changed as a result of ESS. I am often sitting in stop and go traffic and I wish I could have the engine off more off the time. What is noted above on how to keep engine from re-starting when parking is something I have been trying to figure out, thanks again. I will also point out that coming to a slow stop tends to keep engine on and a harder stop will shut off.

My question is has anyone figured out how to get car into neutral to let the car move forward under its own weight without restarting the engine?

Yes. The secret is to drive a 6-speed.

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