Loose steering feels like it has play and drifts

[Dkretden]

I am brand new to this issue and contemplating a JL or JT. Is the problem still present on more recent vehicles off the line? Is it seen on both JLs and JTs?

It seems that you may not have received an answer...... let me give you mine....

those with steering issues report them for 2018, 2019, and 2020 JLs and JTs (I think). That said, it is extremely difficult for me to understand what could be causing it. Some of it is likely new Jeep owners not understanding that a solid axle is not a IFS sedan. But that seems not to be the case for all as some experienced Jeep folks on this forum report significant problems too.

personally, I think that you should go to a dealer, find the vehicle that you want and TEST DRIVE it on the freeway (at speed) and city streets at speed. If you like the way it drives (and I will bet you do), buy it. If you don’t like the way it drives, test drive another one. And possibly a third. Still don’t like the way it drives? Walk away, and look for another vehicle.

I test drove one. It drives like the linked video. I would venture to say that most do. Take one for a spin......

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[BRuby]

I think that you should go to a dealer, find the vehicle that you want and TEST DRIVE it on the freeway (at speed) and city streets at speed. If you like the way it drives (and I will bet you do), buy it. If you don’t like the way it drives, test drive another one. And possibly a third. Still don’t like the way it drives? Walk away, and look for another vehicle.

Yep.

 

[Midlife Crisis 2020]

Mine was way worse than this. First of all you wouldn’t drive it at 82, no way. At 75 your knuckles were white. My hands were never still, ever, not even for a second. I was constantly moving back and forth a couple of inches just to keep it going straight. Even then if a big rig pasted or wind blew the box it would wander to the edge of the lane.

Same for me. We’ve had our Jeep for two weeks, and I can’t get it above 65 on the highway. Constant steering adjustments, with one-handed driving being an impossibility if there are large vehicles in adjacent lanes or uneven pavement.

Going to schedule a service appoint on Monday. Any suggestions appreciated.

1300 miles

 

[Goin2drt]

Same for me. We’ve had our Jeep for two weeks, and I can’t get it above 65 on the highway. Constant steering adjustments, with one-handed driving being an impossibility if there are large vehicles in adjacent lanes or uneven pavement.

Going to schedule a service appoint on Monday. Any suggestions appreciated.

1300 miles

Yep good luck and ensure you bring an extra bag of patience.

 

[Dkretden]

Same for me. We’ve had our Jeep for two weeks, and I can’t get it above 65 on the highway. Constant steering adjustments, with one-handed driving being an impossibility if there are large vehicles in adjacent lanes or uneven pavement.

Going to schedule a service appoint on Monday. Any suggestions appreciated.

1300 miles

Does it drive differently on the freeway today than on your test drive? If so, with only 1300 miles, perhaps it’s just a simple matter of a couple of bolts needing some torque?

 

[RustyH]

Taking mine in on Wednesday for them to look at. 2018 JLUS with 3600 miles. I bought it 1000 miles and a month ago. Steering wanders all over the place. When I talked to the service advisor, he mentioned that they'd check the torque on everything (S1819000003, I assume) and set maximum toe. This jeep was subject to the V41 recall, which was completed before I knew her.

I'm also going to point out TSB # 02-003-19, which I guess replaces the front track bar and TSB 08-092-18 for the software update.

Will report back. FWIW, not my first jeep - CJ and TJ never felt like this.

ETA: Whether they reduce the wandering or not, I couldn't be happier with being back in the club.

 

[Midlife Crisis 2020]

Does it drive differently on the freeway today than on your test drive? If so, with only 1300 miles, perhaps it’s just a simple matter of a couple of bolts needing some torque?

Backstory with update:

JL was all over the road at any speed over 40mph. Under 40 it handled well enough to manage around town. After a near-death experience on I-81 at approximately 65mph, I found this forum and started researching the problem.

Installed Terraflex Falcon adjustable steering stabilizer today, set for FIRM. Took tire pressure down to 32psi cold.

Significant improvement. Able to get to 65mph with one-handed steering on good pavement.

Will have alignment and toe checked tomorrow.

 

[df007]

So @Goin2drt was kind enough to donate his AC version gearbox for me to have a look at since he has the PSC kit. Here are some initial findings:

I improvised a lot with the tools I had for this. I can do better, but I really focused on being repeatable and precise, but I may not have the most accurate setup right now. Honestly after all this I think (at least for me) this provided insight.

I've been measuring the temp of my gearbox after driving the jeep, and so far with the temps in the ~50 F range the box has been about 80. I'll have to keep understanding the true operating temp as the weather changes.

My first task was to measure the lash in the gearbox as delivered. I did this at an 8" radius, which is about where your hand would sit on the steering wheel. I found this box had a relatively small amount of slop, but still some, and that there was a fairly linear relationship to temperature. However the values were not massive in terms of magnitude.

During each of these temperatures I also measured the over-center torque setup as called out in the documentation we have seen for dealers to check the boxes when diagnosing the problem. They call the +/-45 deg value the Over Center Torque and the 90-180 deg values on either side the Preload Rotating torque. The box was noticeably tighter in the center and always some more lash off center. The spec called out for the dealers is the difference of the two values and is shown below vs. temp.

The specs in the bulletin are 1.3 - 5.8 in/lb. So this box was pretty much at the minimum value.

I then began to play with the sector shaft adjuster. It initially broke it loose pretty easy but the adjuster screw was Loctite'd to the locknut so I hit it with the heat gun and the two came apart easily. I then cleaned off all the Loctite so I'd have a good feel for things. With the gearbox centered the adjuster went in just under 1/8 of a turn easily and it was easy to feel it stop when the sector gears were against each other. I also did this off center and got another 3/4T but then the box would not return to center and was locked up. SO SUPER CRITICAL TO MAKE SURE THE BOX IS ON CENTER IF THIS IS TOUCHED.

With the box back on center I began to see if I could set it up in the middle of the Torque range. I found that if I preloaded the adjuster screw ~15in-lb I got a pretty good setup. My value at this was 4.5 in-lb. Here's the difference:

I then set back up to measure the lash and much to my surprise there was still about 1/8" of play. I then began to over-preload the sector shaft and realized the play was not reducing any more. So I then backed off the preload and found the ratio of lash to sector adjustment so I'd have a refence. This was 0.060" per 1/8T of the adjuster. I did this by using the difference between 1/2T and 1T out from the adjuster being all the way in contact.

So if you have lash and try to remove some, you would want to get the above result or the play is not in the sector gear.

So now I opened the top of the gearbox and verified that the adjuster is really basic (at least on the AC box) and the sector gears were not the source of the final 1/8" of play.

Next I opened the side to peek at the worm gear.

I could not blast the entire thing apart because the pitman arm was still attached and I don't have the tools for that. However I'm very sure the last bit of play is between the worm gear and the ball-nut sector gear.

So the best the box would ever be is 1/8" of play regardless of adjustment.

After all this I totally understand why Jeep does not want techs messing with these as they really need to be careful and the liability is pretty big for this type of thing. I certainly caution anyone adjusting theirs to make sure they can get a good feel for things. I'm honestly not sure I would feel comfortable doing this with the box still in the Jeep. Perhaps if I had a good way to reference the lash at the steering wheel and enough working space to clean all the Loctite off the adjuster so I could feel when it removed all the sector gear lash and get a good torque reference on it. I would certainly make sure my lash reduced the amount expected as well, as now I know there is lash elsewhere in the system.

Hopefully this helps anyone who has isolated their issue to the gearbox and is thinking about what to do next if Jeep isn't helping.

In the future I'll probably post more about the relationship between the operating temp of the box and the ambient temp. I also need to see if I can determine which source of the lash is temp sensitive, if not both, now that I know lash is coming from both the sector shaft and the worm gear interfaces.

 

[Dkretden]

Backstory with update:

JL was all over the road at any speed over 40mph. Under 40 it handled well enough to manage around town. After a near-death experience on I-81 at approximately 65mph, I found this forum and started researching the problem.

Installed Terraflex Falcon adjustable steering stabilizer today, set for FIRM. Took tire pressure down to 32psi cold.

Significant improvement. Able to get to 65mph with one-handed steering on good pavement.

Will have alignment and toe checked tomorrow.

good to hear this outcome for you.

that said, I am trying to figure out if steering issues happen over time or not. At 1,300 miles, you have steering issues. Did you test drive this Jeep on the freeway before buying? Was there any issues during the test drive or did it only happen thereafter — say after the first few hundred miles?

 

[Goin2drt]

good to hear this outcome for you.

that said, I am trying to figure out if steering issues happen over time or not. At 1,300 miles, you have steering issues. Did you test drive this Jeep on the freeway before buying? Was there any issues during the test drive or did it only happen thereafter — say after the first few hundred miles?

For me it was right off the lot. I ordered mine. Stupid me never test drove on the highway, I literally took it around the block. Purchased in Vegas and drove home to CA. The entire drive it seemed off but I was so excited I just dealt with it and was driving at 60 to break it in anyways.

 

[Midlife Crisis 2020]

For me it was right off the lot. I ordered mine. Stupid me never test drove on the highway, I literally took it around the block. Purchased in Vegas and drove home to CA. The entire drive it seemed off but I was so excited I just dealt with it and was driving at 60 to break it in anyways.

Same for me. It had a “truck” feel with a little bounce, but I chalked that up to driving sedans exclusively for the last four years. The dealer was located 20min from the interstate, so I kept the test drive local. Imagine my surprise the next day when I tried to get it up to 70mph, feeling like I was on a runaway rollercoaster.

 

[Dkretden]

Same for me. It had a “truck” feel with a little bounce, but I chalked that up to driving sedans exclusively for the last four years. The dealer was located 20min from the interstate, so I kept the test drive local. Imagine my surprise the next day when I tried to get it up to 70mph, feeling like I was on a runaway rollercoaster.

For me it was right off the lot. I ordered mine. Stupid me never test drove on the highway, I literally took it around the block. Purchased in Vegas and drove home to CA. The entire drive it seemed off but I was so excited I just dealt with it and was driving at 60 to break it in anyways.

thank you both for this. I seems to me that “most” folks reporting steering issues are reporting that it happened “immediately after” leaving the dealer. For many of these folks, No test drive was done at freeway speeds prior to purchase.

so, what this really starts to tell me is that none of the discussions about weather or temperature or (pick your favorite theory) would be correct. It’s more a “delivered quality” issue. This thought is also bolstered by the fact that it also cannot be related to a specific “part” as my 2020 has the same parts as Midlife Crisis. But mine drives perfect.... 1 finger at 70 MPH. It therefore must be a manufacturing defect or an assembly defect.

And, since the problem seems to be in the 2020 year too, that must mean that none of the “new versions” of track bars, steering boxes, etc are the “fix” either. It must be something not yet found.

 

[RagTopDeluxe]

Same for me. We’ve had our Jeep for two weeks, and I can’t get it above 65 on the highway. Constant steering adjustments, with one-handed driving being an impossibility if there are large vehicles in adjacent lanes or uneven pavement.

Going to schedule a service appoint on Monday. Any suggestions appreciated.

1300 miles

Definitely take it in as soon as you can.

- Take *detailed* notes on every conversation, email, dealer interaction.
- Make sure that the write-up from the dealer is accurate. Check every page. My dealer wrote a completely inaccurate (as in flat out bs) on one of my visits regarding test driving my JL and one off the lot. I didn't catch it (didn't think to check all pages, didn't image they would write something completely opposite of what happened) and it might really bite me in the bum.
- Get @JeepCares involved and again, take detailed notes.

Good luck.

 

[RagTopDeluxe]

thank you both for this. I seems to me that “most” folks reporting steering issues are reporting that it happened “immediately after” leaving the dealer. For many of these folks, No test drive was done at freeway speeds prior to purchase.

so, what this really starts to tell me is that none of the discussions about weather or temperature or (pick your favorite theory) would be correct. It’s more a “delivered quality” issue. This thought is also bolstered by the fact that it also cannot be related to a specific “part” as my 2020 has the same parts as Midlife Crisis. But mine drives perfect.... 1 finger at 70 MPH. It therefore must be a manufacturing defect or an assembly defect.

And, since the problem seems to be in the 2020 year too, that must mean that none of the “new versions” of track bars, steering boxes, etc are the “fix” either. It must be something not yet found.

Mine was right away. I test drove other JLs before mine, which was ordered, and they were fine. I wasn't aware of a potential steering issue so wasn't tuned into the possibility when I test drove mine. Traffic was too heavy for a proper test. At first I thought it was too high tire pressure, so adjusted that. When my husband drove it (he had the JKUR that is in my avatar), he couldn't believe how horrible it was and confirmed my observations.

So mine was bad right away, but has gotten worse.

 

[Dkretden]

Mine was right away. I test drove other JLs before mine, which was ordered, and they were fine. I wasn't aware of a potential steering issue so wasn't tuned into the possibility when I test drove mine. Traffic was too heavy for a proper test. At first I thought it was too high tire pressure, so adjusted that. When my husband drove it (he had the JKUR that is in my avatar), he couldn't believe how horrible it was and confirmed my observations.

So mine was bad right away, but has gotten worse.

Thank you for this.
I have followed a number of your Posts and know that you have had a lot of issues.

what troubles me about your post is the last sentence..... that it’s actually gotten worse over time..... if it’s a manufacturing defect or assembly defect, there is a good chance that it won’t “get worse” over time. It will just be reliably bad. I assume that you haven’t added anything to the Jeep? It’s still stock and it’s gotten worse over time?

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