DIY Gear Swap - Step by Step Pic's - Rubicon 4.88

[vavaroutsos]

I can't answer how it came with 0.021" backlash...I didn't assemble it! Oh yeah, I checked that in multiple locations, and I reset up a few times, because I decided to get a video of it. For only 1,800 miles, I was kind of surprised how dark the fluid was, and locker sensor nub (don't know what to call it) was caked in gear schmegma (correct spelling? lol ).

I can't say that I heard any noise from the rear, but Jeeps are loud, not to mentioned I'm still getting used to all the Jeep noises. And really, I wasn't tuned into listening for gear noise. Also, the last 500 miles had noisy 37" Trail Grapplers.

Last night, I finally got sets of Yukon and Spicer shims (ordered from multiple places to increase my chances of getting them quickly), and I finished setting up the rear. I was a bit surprised how very little carrier movement impacts backlash a lot - seemed backwards (of course, we're still talking thousandths).

I just opened my gear sets. One pinion is marked +04 and the other +0.13. Neither have an M in front and notice one has a decimal and the other doesn't (WTF Dana?). They came in totally different style boxes as well, so I'm not sure if one is an older set marked in thousands of an inch and the other in mm or what. I might just give @Northridge4x4 a call and see what they say.

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[2Wheel-Lee]

I just opened my gear sets. One pinion is marked +04 and the other +0.13. Neither have an M in front and notice one as a decimal and the other doesn't (WTF Dana?). They came in totally different style boxes as well, so I'm not sure if one is an older set marked in thousands of an inch and the other in mm or what. I might just give @Northridge4x4 a call and see what they say.

Yup, that was my experience. The front simply showed 05 and -05 with no decimal or M. Dana confirmed that it's metric, and I believe as 0.5mm (I may have said something different in an earlier post, as the answers I get from them aren't very clear, as it seems like the person is shortcut texting me).

The packaging my gears came in was a bit rough, and nothing like shown at the beginning of this thread - gears wrapped in paper and shoved in a plain box.

 

[vavaroutsos]

Yup, that was my experience. The front simply showed 05 and -05 with no decimal or M. Dana confirmed that it's metric, and I believe as 0.5mm (I may have said something different in an earlier post, as the answers I get from them aren't very clear, as it seems like the person is shortcut texting me).

The packaging my gears came in was a bit rough, and nothing like shown at the beginning of this thread - gears wrapped in paper and shoved in a plain box.

Neither of my boxes had the styrofoam inserts pictured here. One was plain brown and opened on the tooth side of the ring gear. It had some shredded paper padding on top of the ring gear, then the pinion (in a small box) on top of that. The other box was smaller, white and printed. It opened on the edge of the ring gear. Again the pinion was in a small box inside, but no shredded paper padding. All of the gears were wrapped in wax paper. Both boxes were sealed and had a sticker with Dana/Spicer part numbers.

I don't see how your +05 could mean +0.5 mm, that is way off. I was thinking it was thousandths, meaning +0.005". That being said, my +0.13 must mean +0.13 mm. I have no explanation for your 0.62 marking. It must be +0.62 mm, but that seems way off. Everyone said the Dana/Spicer gears setup better and were cut better, but if all these numbers are mm, they're way off. I did send Dana an email, and I'll post their reply.

 

[2Wheel-Lee]

Neither of my boxes had the styrofoam inserts pictured here. One was plain brown and opened on the tooth side of the ring gear. It had some shredded paper padding on top of the ring gear, then the pinion (in a small box) on top of that. The other box was smaller, white and printed. It opened on the edge of the ring gear. Again the pinion was in a small box inside, but no shredded paper padding. All of the gears were wrapped in wax paper. Both boxes were sealed and had a sticker with Dana/Spicer part numbers.

I don't see how your +05 could mean +0.5 mm, that is way off. I was thinking it was thousandths, meaning +0.005". That being said, my +0.13 must mean +0.13 mm. I have no explanation for your 0.62 marking. It must be +0.62 mm, but that seems way off. Everyone said the Dana/Spicer gears setup better and were cut better, but if all these numbers are mm, they're way off. I did send Dana an email, and I'll post their reply.

It sounds like mine were packaged very similar to yours - with the similar differences in packaging between the two. I think one had shredded cardboard. About 9" x 9" x 6" tall boxes - pretty sketchy packaging. It probably wouldn't take much for the boxes to disintegrate and scatter the contents.

0.5mm is about .020" so it's still not a lot and I shimmed as if it were that. The rear is fine, and the front I'll work on tonight or tomorrow.

I guess you can see why I think that Dana video is pure marketing.

 

[vavaroutsos]

My email to Dana:

I just purchased a set of Advantek gears for Dana 44 front (210 mm) and rear (220 mm) differentials. It's unlcear to me how the pinion depth is marked.

One pinion is marked +0.13 and the other +04. Notice one has a decimal and the other doesn't, and neither has an "M" before it. They came in two completely different style boxes.

1) Does the one marked +04 mean 0.004" deeper?

2) Does the one marked +0.13 mean 0.13 mm deeper?

3) Were older gear sets marked in imperial units and newer ones are marked in metric units?

Best Regards,

Pete


Reply from Dana:

Hello, I am not sure what a "M" has to do with our markings or why there would or would not be one on there. To my understanding you are correct on this markings. I have had another call recently as well on this, I took the picture of his markings down to the gearing engineering department, They stated that between two plants there was confusing on stamping. When I asked what the best coarse of action was to install these gears, engineering said to start while the same amount of shims as the old one and adjust from there for backlash and pattern. Thank you


Edit: I called Dana and spoke to the guy who replied. He says both markings are in mm and the one marked +04 is +0.04mm. He says the one plant wasn't putting the leading 0 and decimal on the markings. I asked him about the leading M for metric markings and he says he has never seen a set marked that way.

 

[2Wheel-Lee]

It sounds like you got a good response. I'm pretty sure I was the other person he was referring to, as that was the comments he made to me.

So the other day I finished up my gear swap. My pattern and backlash were spot on. I only have 25 miles on it, but there's no noise. I'm super happy of what I did.

 

[Portmod7]

So, I decided to try and tackle this project on my Jeep as my first ever differential build. Between chevymitchell's VERY helpful and informative thread and the not so helpful/informative video put out by Spicer, I figured it would be a slam dunk and a good intro to differential setup for me.

Well, first off, as some of you have experienced, I did not get 0 etch gear sets. Neither the ones that came in my Jeep or the new ones I ordered were 0 etch. But, that's not really a HUGE deal, just makes for more work than I was hoping for.

The front went pretty smooth. In fact, I am thinking about opening it back up and rechecking my pattern just because it went together so well, it makes me uneasy, lol. Cutting the bearing off my locker wasnt my favorite thing, and you need to be REALLY careful about the orientation of the locker electronics when getting the locker back in the housing. I tried to mess mine up, but I got lucky and got away with my inattention.

On the rear, from the moment I got the gears in my housing, I had a bind on a tooth on the ring gear. With a young child and pregnant wife in the house, I usually only get to work on the Jeep after everyone else goes to bed. So I spent an entire week working from 9PM to 12AM trying to shim and adjust and whatever else to get the gear set happy. I figured there was no chance there was any problem with the Dana gear set. I never got it. Finally I ran a pattern just to try and identify the problem, and did in fact identify it. Bad tooth on the brand new Dana ring gear, confirmed in an email from them after sending them a picture. They are going to warranty it and send me some new parts.

So, mostly I just wanted to post to let others know that it's not always a slam dunk like I thought it was going to be and like it seemed to be for chevymitchell. And TAKE YOUR TIME, even if you order parts from a dependable manufacturer, they can be wrong. I was glad I found it before I destroyed anything else.

HUGE thanks to chevymitchell for reading and replying to a PM I sent to ask for help. He too thought there was something wrong with my gear after looking at the picture.

Good luck guys! I'll try and remember to update you when I get this thing buttoned up.

 

[chevymitchell]

So, I decided to try and tackle this project on my Jeep as my first ever differential build. Between chevymitchell's VERY helpful and informative thread and the not so helpful/informative video put out by Spicer, I figured it would be a slam dunk and a good intro to differential setup for me.

Well, first off, as some of you have experienced, I did not get 0 etch gear sets. Neither the ones that came in my Jeep or the new ones I ordered were 0 etch. But, that's not really a HUGE deal, just makes for more work than I was hoping for.

The front went pretty smooth. In fact, I am thinking about opening it back up and rechecking my pattern just because it went together so well, it makes me uneasy, lol. Cutting the bearing off my locker wasnt my favorite thing, and you need to be REALLY careful about the orientation of the locker electronics when getting the locker back in the housing. I tried to mess mine up, but I got lucky and got away with my inattention.

On the rear, from the moment I got the gears in my housing, I had a bind on a tooth on the ring gear. With a young child and pregnant wife in the house, I usually only get to work on the Jeep after everyone else goes to bed. So I spent an entire week working from 9PM to 12AM trying to shim and adjust and whatever else to get the gear set happy. I figured there was no chance there was any problem with the Dana gear set. I never got it. Finally I ran a pattern just to try and identify the problem, and did in fact identify it. Bad tooth on the brand new Dana ring gear, confirmed in an email from them after sending them a picture. They are going to warranty it and send me some new parts.

So, mostly I just wanted to post to let others know that it's not always a slam dunk like I thought it was going to be and like it seemed to be for chevymitchell. And TAKE YOUR TIME, even if you order parts from a dependable manufacturer, they can be wrong. I was glad I found it before I destroyed anything else.

HUGE thanks to chevymitchell for reading and replying to a PM I sent to ask for help. He too thought there was something wrong with my gear after looking at the picture.

Good luck guys! I'll try and remember to update you when I get this thing buttoned up.

You're welcome, man. It's not common, but does take place from time to time; getting bad parts from a good MFG happens.

Good on you to do the due diligence required to find the issue and not just think everything is OK and put it together. This would have made one hell of a growling noise and would have likely broke a piece of that tooth off, for sure.

Good luck with the next set. I'm sure that will go smoothly. At least now, you have experience with what can happen. Usually people don't find this out until they've already paid the bill and are 50 miles down the road.

 

[k9runner]

This is a project I hope to tackle next week; I've started taking inventory of all my parts and tools and have a couple of questions. Note that I'll probably have more questions right through the regear.

I didn't see a discussion on what to do if the etch on the new pinion is different from the old pinion. For example, the etch on my new front pinion is +02; I don't know about the factory pinion as I haven't removed it yet, but for the sake of argument, let's assume it is 0. Would I need to add 0.02mm to the factory shim stack depth or subtract 0.02mm?

When I ordered the gears I also ordered the Dana master rebuild kits that include shims. The vacuum sealed plastic came loose in shipping and some of the really delicate shims got beat up really good (see attached). I'm assuming these are no longer usable and if I need one of those damaged shims I'll have to order a separate shim kit?

Many thanks,
Michael

 

[2Wheel-Lee]

Look at pdf page 15, and that will help you understand setting up pinion depths. As simple as I knew it was, it took me a bit to get it. I'd have to say that you're better off figuring out yourself, than having someone suggest a shim size.

There are also the same charts chevymitchell previously posted.

I ordered carrier shims from Randysworldwide (Yukon shims) and Rockauto (Spicer shims). I recall these were the two who could ship them the fastest. I actually ordered from both, because I had to get it done by that weekend, and I had doubts I'd get the shims from either in time. To my surprise, I got them from both places on the same day in plenty of time. With Yukon, the pinion shims, carrier flange side shims, and carrier button side shims are all sold as separate kits. I vaguely remember that the Spicer flange and button side came in the same kit, but pinion shims are a separate kit. I think the Yukon kits, though much more expensive, had a better selection of carrier shims. I only had Spicer pinion shims.

Yes, those bent shims are trash.

 

[chevymitchell]

This is a project I hope to tackle next week; I've started taking inventory of all my parts and tools and have a couple of questions. Note that I'll probably have more questions right through the regear.

I didn't see a discussion on what to do if the etch on the new pinion is different from the old pinion. For example, the etch on my new front pinion is +02; I don't know about the factory pinion as I haven't removed it yet, but for the sake of argument, let's assume it is 0. Would I need to add 0.02mm to the factory shim stack depth or subtract 0.02mm?

When I ordered the gears I also ordered the Dana master rebuild kits that include shims. The vacuum sealed plastic came loose in shipping and some of the really delicate shims got beat up really good (see attached). I'm assuming these are no longer usable and if I need one of those damaged shims I'll have to order a separate shim kit?

Many thanks,
Michael

Getting a Master Kit with damaged shims like you did actually happens a lot more than any of the kit MFG's would admit.

Contact whomever you purchased from or contact DANA/Spicer directly and they'll ship a new shim pack. I've had to do this several times for this exact reason. You don't ever want to hammer the shims flat or attempt to correct any defect. The shim is trash after it's damaged.

I see someone addressed the etching already. Reach out if you have any questions while you're attempting this. It's a fun project to tackle and is easier than the common perception would let you believe.

 

[Portmod7]

Both of my master kits came apart also, luckily no damage that I could tell. I thought it was very strange. At first I thought I had gotten something somebody had already opened.

Those shims couldn't look worse if somebody tried to mess them up, wow!

 

[k9runner]

Thanks for the info and help; new shim kits should be here tomorrow.

 

[RubiRob]

what would happen if you didn't mark the fixed plate where it was when you removed it? I have a feeling thats what 4WP didn't do on my gear install and why im running into my issue. Thoughts?

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...8-via-4wp-now-rear-locker-light-blinks.43279/

 

[Portmod7]

what would happen if you didn't mark the fixed plate where it was when you removed it? I have a feeling thats what 4WP didn't do on my gear install and why im running into my issue. Thoughts?

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...8-via-4wp-now-rear-locker-light-blinks.43279/

I was wondering this myself, I didnt try to see if it would snap into other locations, but I can't figure out how it would ever know if you did.

I got mine done flnally. The front was straight forward. The rear, I had to chase backlash, pinion depth, bad parts, etc. I also STRUGGLED getting the thinner carrier shims in without destroying them. Finally, on a backlash adjustment, I subtracted .001" from the total factory stack to make the math and shim selection easier, and just that tiny bit of shim missing made getting my shims in much easier. Or, I got better at it coincidently at the same time. Still plenty of preload on the bearing, but got rid of just enough that I stopped folding them in half.

We'll see how it goes after a few thousand miles, if they make it that far. But for now, I don't notice any noise or anything else to make me suspect they are unhappy.

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