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Plug-In Hybrid Electric Wrangler Still on Track for 2020 Release Date

Kevin Mojito

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If your state does not have net metering ( paid for solar kwh ) It will take a lot longer to pay back for sure.
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KnG818

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Bitching about solar paying you back is like bitching about Wrangler MPG... COMPLETELY missing the point.
Not even close

I dont pay for the pump and the gas.

Why pay for the panel and the electric?

Someone's elevator obviously doesnt go all the way to the top:asshat:
 

prototyp3

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I'd love to see them do a hybrid Wrangler like the BMW i3 REX using some of the software hacks we use, along with a larger fuel tank of course.

The motors driving the vehicle are all electric, with a small ICE generator to charge the battery pack. That gives you the torque benefits at all times. You can also easily do your daily commute on electric power only. If you want to do long excursions off grid, you bring your gas cans and keep feeding that onboard generator.

Having a large battery pack to power camp gear through the night without generator noise or fumes would be pretty convenient as well.
 

Bren

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I'd love to see them do a hybrid Wrangler like the BMW i3 REX using some of the software hacks we use, along with a larger fuel tank of course.

The motors driving the vehicle are all electric, with a small ICE generator to charge the battery pack. That gives you the torque benefits at all times. You can also easily do your daily commute on electric power only. If you want to do long excursions off grid, you bring your gas cans and keep feeding that onboard generator.

Having a large battery pack to power camp gear through the night without generator noise or fumes would be pretty convenient as well.
In theory I agree wholeheartedly, but that setup only works because the i3 is so light. That car has SO MUCH clever engineering to make it light enough for a 2-stroke motor to feed the battery, and even then it gets itself into trouble by running out of buffer when the car is dealing with a perfect storm of sustained incline + cold weather + highway speed. Imagine stuffing 33" tires underneath it. the whole model sort of blows up. You'd need a bigger motor, which means more weight, which means less range, which means now we're right back to the PHEV model.

My dream is to have an all-electric Rubicon with a roof that folds out solar panels. Tesla is teasing us with that concept for Cybertruck, claiming 15-40 extra miles of range per day. Would be amazing on a Wrangler as well. Maybe a next-gen aftermarket mod. Basically I want Cybertruck specs in a Wrangler body. 500 miles of range, 14k lb towing, and the solar option.
 

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prototyp3

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In theory I agree wholeheartedly, but that setup only works because the i3 is so light. That car has SO MUCH clever engineering to make it light enough for a 2-stroke motor to feed the battery, and even then it gets itself into trouble by running out of buffer when the car is dealing with a perfect storm of sustained incline + cold weather + highway speed. Imagine stuffing 33" tires underneath it. the whole model sort of blows up. You'd need a bigger motor, which means more weight, which means less range, which means now we're right back to the PHEV model.

My dream is to have an all-electric Rubicon with a roof that folds out solar panels. Tesla is teasing us with that concept for Cybertruck, claiming 15-40 extra miles of range per day. Would be amazing on a Wrangler as well. Maybe a next-gen aftermarket mod. Basically I want Cybertruck specs in a Wrangler body. 500 miles of range, 14k lb towing, and the solar option.
The Wrangler would absolutely be at a disadvantage like you've pointed out, with the reduced aerodynamics, larger tires, metal frame, etc. The engineers need to earn their money somehow, they better figure it out. At least nobody expects 35 to 40 mpg for a Wrangler, so they could afford to lose a lot of efficiency with the inevitable losses.

Having the charge level dip beyond what the generator can keep up with really only happens at constant 70+mph speeds. I don't imagine many will be doing those speeds through the woods or over rocky terrain, so it should be able to manage the fun environments just fine.

I've never been a fan of variable power dynamics under foot. When I step on the accelerator I want to know exactly what's going to happen. I don't like the different response of electric power sometimes, with ICE power or a combination of both at other times. I've never owned a vehicle like that, so maybe you just get used to it quickly.

I'm excited to see how the Cybertruck turns out, I've got my placeholder reservation. The solar panel integration is clever. Let's stick a crank on there as well, so the kids or wives have something helpful to do!
 

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In one of the original videos linked to this thread, the commentator compared the Pacifica PHEV, which is fully loaded with creature comforts he claimed, to a fully loaded ICE Pacifica and claimed about a $6K purchase price difference.

From a purely mathematical exercise, in ideal conditions where you have excess home produced solar power over that you take from the utility in a "net metering state" (your utility bill is $0) I STILL wonder how many (electric) miles you'd have to drive with a PHEV Wrangler JL to reach a break even $ point over the up front purchase price difference to a comparably feature rich purely ICE Wrangler JL. And that's not even counting repairs to these rigs.

The irony to this is to get the most electric miles you have to do lots of small trip driving across lots of trips, each between power charges.

Sure--there's the greenness of it, and such calculations will vary with the cost of gasoline/diesel, but even in this rarest of situations where you are already produce your own excess power beyond that needed, it may still take a while to justify the cost difference on dollars alone.

..and that's before a lift kit or towing stuff, which are apt to drain the batteries in even less miles than the stock rig.

I'm not against manufacturers being forced to adopt entry level electric solutions, but it strikes me as maybe a hard case to make to the consumer in $ outlay alone.

If people know better I'd love to be told otherwise, as if my assumptions are wrong, the environment wins more.

;)On this plus side, the rig probably won't have an ESS system for those who hate ESS.
 

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In one of the original videos linked to this thread, the commentator compared the Pacifica PHEV, which is fully loaded with creature comforts he claimed, to a fully loaded ICE Pacifica and claimed about a $6K purchase price difference.

From a purely mathematical exercise, in ideal conditions where you have excess home produced solar power over that you take from the utility in a "net metering state" (your utility bill is $0) I STILL wonder how many (electric) miles you'd have to drive with a PHEV Wrangler JL to reach a break even $ point over the up front purchase price difference to a comparably feature rich purely ICE Wrangler JL. And that's not even counting repairs to these rigs.

The irony to this is to get the most electric miles you have to do lots of small trip driving across lots of trips, each between power charges.

Sure--there's the greenness of it, and such calculations will vary with the cost of gasoline/diesel, but even in this rarest of situations where you are already produce your own excess power beyond that needed, it may still take a while to justify the cost difference on dollars alone.

..and that's before a lift kit or towing stuff, which are apt to drain the batteries in even less miles than the stock rig.

I'm not against manufacturers being forced to adopt entry level electric solutions, but it strikes me as maybe a hard case to make to the consumer in $ outlay alone.

If people know better I'd love to be told otherwise, as if my assumptions are wrong, the environment wins more.

;)On this plus side, the rig probably won't have an ESS system for those who hate ESS.
short answer is we don’t know. My guess is the break even point is 80,000 miles or more. But we need to see more numbers to confirm.
 

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In one of the original videos linked to this thread, the commentator compared the Pacifica PHEV, which is fully loaded with creature comforts he claimed, to a fully loaded ICE Pacifica and claimed about a $6K purchase price difference.

From a purely mathematical exercise, in ideal conditions where you have excess home produced solar power over that you take from the utility in a "net metering state" (your utility bill is $0) I STILL wonder how many (electric) miles you'd have to drive with a PHEV Wrangler JL to reach a break even $ point over the up front purchase price difference to a comparably feature rich purely ICE Wrangler JL. And that's not even counting repairs to these rigs.

The irony to this is to get the most electric miles you have to do lots of small trip driving across lots of trips, each between power charges.

Sure--there's the greenness of it, and such calculations will vary with the cost of gasoline/diesel, but even in this rarest of situations where you are already produce your own excess power beyond that needed, it may still take a while to justify the cost difference on dollars alone.

..and that's before a lift kit or towing stuff, which are apt to drain the batteries in even less miles than the stock rig.

I'm not against manufacturers being forced to adopt entry level electric solutions, but it strikes me as maybe a hard case to make to the consumer in $ outlay alone.

If people know better I'd love to be told otherwise, as if my assumptions are wrong, the environment wins more.

;)On this plus side, the rig probably won't have an ESS system for those who hate ESS.
The value proposition gets better with more EV miles but we have to start somewhere. In my case, I live in an urban tower that has free EV charging for the residents. Most of my weekday driving is around the city, where 30-40 miles of EV range is plenty and every one of those miles is pure gravy. The JK gets 12mpg in city driving. That's about $100/mo saved just around town (assuming I would have purchased a similarly spec'd gas JL). I'm assuming the PHEV will be price equivalent to a similarly spec'd gas drivetrain after fed and state incentives.
 

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you arrive at a campsite with a full charge and let the batteries run your climate, lights and accessories all night long.
I arrive at a camp (implying remote) site with a cot, bag and torch. Lights are the stars; climate is the air; accessories are top shelf spirits; to consume a full charge of peace and quiet.
 

Gee-pah

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The value proposition gets better with more EV miles but we have to start somewhere. In my case, I live in an urban tower that has free EV charging for the residents. Most of my weekday driving is around the city, where 30-40 miles of EV range is plenty and every one of those miles is pure gravy. The JK gets 12mpg in city driving. That's about $100/mo saved just around town (assuming I would have purchased a similarly spec'd gas JL). I'm assuming the PHEV will be price equivalent to a similarly spec'd gas drivetrain after fed and state incentives.
May your charging remain free, and at least equally as important as more people adopt electric vehicles: accessible. :)
 
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JandS

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Bitching about solar paying you back is like bitching about Wrangler MPG... COMPLETELY missing the point.
Now that a diesel gets 29 mpg highway, is it?
 
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JandS

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Got on highway to day, driving along about 4 miles from previous on ramp, come up upon a Tesla doing about 50mph, take a look, all windows including side and back are are all fogged/frosted up.

Confirms what I expected, climate control and defrost either suck, or said driver is hyper mileing to extend the battery and hence power the defrost and freeze their ass while driving in cold climate, no thanks elon!
Only the biggest Tesla fan boys will pretend that EVs are currently viable for folks who deal with extremely cold weather for more than a month a year.

Owner of both a Tesla and a JK here. The air con in the Tesla is perfectly fine. The car preheats itself too, so it's climate controlled when I get in it.

It's hard for people to understand this point until you've lived with one, but I think about "range" in my Wrangler way more than my Tesla. The Tesla leaves my garage with ~280 miles of charge every day (I top it up to about 80% battery each night). It's very rare that I drive more than that in a day. As I result I only go out of my way to "fuel" that car maybe once every other month. The only times I ever think about range are on 280+ mile road trips, and for those there are plenty of Superchargers along my routes. For example I run from Boston to Montreal pretty often, and I have 5 different opportunities to supercharge on that drive. A 15 minute charge will give me plenty to get there with 150 miles to spare. I'll spend 15 minutes just taking a leak and grabbing a snack.

Meanwhile in the Wrangler, I'm getting 12mpg around town so I have to gas it up about once per week. My trip computer reads 190 miles of "range" on a full tank at that mileage. I find myself getting mildly annoyed each time the fuel light comes on, because I'm just not used to going out of my way to grab fuel that much anymore.

My main point is, there is no range anxiety in the Tesla. If that guy was hyper-miling he was doing it because some people consider it a game. They're super easy to live with.
Some people don't have room for 2 or more cars and when you only have 1 car, an EV is a huge pain in the ass if you want to road trip, have a long commute, or just drive a lot - and of course cold weather will dramatically increase those issues. Why? Charging stations are few and far between while gas stations are on damn near every corner.
 

Niteshooter

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I've also been looking into the Tesla roof even though it's prohibitively expensive the long term advantage is high. Plus up here conventional shingles aren't really standing up to the type of weather we have been having lately. I don't own an EV yet but was seriously considering one until Doug Ford killed the rebates up here.

One point I haven't come across is trains, they are an example of hybrid technology, they are driven by electric motors. Yup electric and have been for decades, the diesel motor is just the generator. So wouldn't the next logical step be to build a Jeep with this type of setup bypassing a conventional drivetrain and just have 4 corner electric motors driven by a small diesel generator with a bank of batteries.

Also design the system so that the diesel motor can also be used to power your home in the event of a failure of the power grid or perhaps to top up a solar setup when needed. I seem to recall when the Nissan Leaf was introduced one of the selling points was that you could hook up your home in the event of a power failure and run off the cars battery.

I already have 200 amp service in my home and added 240v run out to the garage so that I can hook up my 10k generator in the event of a prolonged power outage. It would be easy to hook up a charging station from this so also puzzled as to why it would cost too much other than labour charge if you had to have one installed. Biggest headache after the fact would be to drill through a wall and run the wiring required, otherwise?

If Jeep ever made something along the lines of what I proposed I'd buy one.
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