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Plug-In Hybrid Electric Wrangler Still on Track for 2020 Release Date

misanthrope

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Solar isn't free though as you had upfront costs, though I get your point. If they weren't so ugly, I would get them, but I may end up getting the Tesla roof when we refi.
Tesla roof is sweeet (but expensive), and I had to fight hard with the wife to get solar on top of our brand new roof. And you're right, free implies no cost-no gain. I have actually made money on my system after costs, savings and tax benefits are factored in (though maybe not depreciation, which is as hard to quantify as added value in terms of home worth). And, since it is already a sunken cost, any additional savings I can get with a PHEV Wrangler would just be gravy, and even better than "free". Now, if the PHEV Wrangler is $10k more than an ICE Wrangler, then I may never recoup those costs and probably would have to pass, regardless of the environmental impact of my 25 miles per day. But, after federal and state incentives, I expect it to be within a reasonable range.
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KnG818

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Tesla roof is sweeet (but expensive), and I had to fight hard with the wife to get solar on top of our brand new roof. And you're right, free implies no cost-no gain. I have actually made money on my system after costs, savings and tax benefits are factored in (though maybe not depreciation, which is as hard to quantify as added value in terms of home worth). And, since it is already a sunken cost, any additional savings I can get with a PHEV Wrangler would just be gravy, and even better than "free". Now, if the PHEV Wrangler is $10k more than an ICE Wrangler, then I may never recoup those costs and probably would have to pass, regardless of the environmental impact of my 25 miles per day. But, after federal and state incentives, I expect it to be within a reasonable range.
Electric cars are nothing more than an image companies sell....a culture if I may.

Will change nothing.

To change our trajectory as far as pollution goes you'll have to bring back horse and buggy.

....if you "book smart" folks dont knock it off those days will be here sooner than later.
 

noswttea4u

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Electric cars are nothing more than an image companies sell....a culture if I may.

Will change nothing.

To change our trajectory as far as pollution goes you'll have to bring back horse and buggy.

....if you "book smart" folks dont knock it off those days will be here sooner than later.
People were saying the same things as you say when we moved from horse to car.

Times change. Electric is not the end-all-be-all, but it is a path forward to more sustainability. Plus electric and phev's are very fun to drive.

I know you're very argumentative, but try to keep an open mind, we aren't going to be driving gas vehicles forever.
 

ThirtyOne

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Wranglers are notoriously bad on gas, what makes anyone thing they wont be just as bad consuming electricity?

What's the point or what's the savings?

People seem to think electricity comes from thin air. Electricity takes just as much fossil fuels to produce.

...again, what's the point?
There is always one on every thread about the plug-in hybrid. Not sure if this is just a troll post but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you want an answer.

There are lots of potential reasons. It depends on the implementation. None of us know yet.

For example -

- I have free charging at work. So from a purely financial standpoint, I can basically commute for free.
- Electricity is cheaper than gas so depending on what the price premium is it may be a better value (see example above)
- It should have better lower-end torque which would improve performance on and off-road
- It is not a zero sum game between gas and electricity because through braking regen you can capture energy. Depending on the implementation this can be significant like 15-20%. And that is not energy created from fossil fuels. It's created by braking.
- It's nice to wake up in the morning and have the same range as you did the day before. It is nice to avoid the gas station except for longer trips. You can also go much longer between oil changes.
- While a hybrid might have only marginal benefits of the "save the planet" variety, it does signal a market for cleaner cars which in aggregate could lead to more investment and innovation which could eventually lead to a tipping point towards vehicles that actually do make some difference. Not as efficiently as government intervention but I'm guessing you aren't a big fan of that.

This vehicle isn't for me because I like my manual transmission too much, but it is not pointless. If you still think driving an EV or hybrid is just for liberal crusaders than you are about 10 years out of date.
 

rocklobster

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From the UAW contract summary:
https://uaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/56461-UAW-Hourly_rev3.pdf

PHEV Hybrid Electric Jeep Wrangler JL.png


Also:

Toledo Machining Plant

$5 million investment

  • Current torque converter will continue
  • Steering columns will continue
  • New Jeep Wrangler (JL) PHEV Super-Module in 2020
  • Potential workforce increase of 25 in 2020 related to (JL)

    PHEV
Not sure if it has been done in a PHEV or is even technically possible, but if it came with a manual transmission I would be in it's target market, depending on the Canadian and Quebec gov incentives which tend to be pretty good. My daily commute to and from work is about 5 miles but can take 30/40 mins on a bad day( in winter thats going to chew up a lot of battery keeping me and the battery warm!), I should be able to do all or most of that on electric by plugging in at work, I put a tank of gas every two weeks at $100 (I drive it like a sports car!!) electricity in Quebec is the cheapest in NA,and is generated by hydro 96% and wind 2%,(biogas and waste 0.75%, nuclear 0.19% and thermal 0.12%)...but assuming it will be automatic transmission only. :-(
 

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VNT

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Got on highway to day, driving along about 4 miles from previous on ramp, come up upon a Tesla doing about 50mph, take a look, all windows including side and back are are all fogged/frosted up.

Confirms what I expected, climate control and defrost either suck, or said driver is hyper mileing to extend the battery and hence power the defrost and freeze their ass while driving in cold climate, no thanks elon!
 

BigGreen

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I'm very interested in this if:
Jeep can make 35-40 miles of EV range
500+ miles of total range
As much wheel torque as the diesel
 

Bren

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Got on highway to day, driving along about 4 miles from previous on ramp, come up upon a Tesla doing about 50mph, take a look, all windows including side and back are are all fogged/frosted up.

Confirms what I expected, climate control and defrost either suck, or said driver is hyper mileing to extend the battery and hence power the defrost and freeze their ass while driving in cold climate, no thanks elon!
Owner of both a Tesla and a JK here. The air con in the Tesla is perfectly fine. The car preheats itself too, so it's climate controlled when I get in it.

It's hard for people to understand this point until you've lived with one, but I think about "range" in my Wrangler way more than my Tesla. The Tesla leaves my garage with ~280 miles of charge every day (I top it up to about 80% battery each night). It's very rare that I drive more than that in a day. As I result I only go out of my way to "fuel" that car maybe once every other month. The only times I ever think about range are on 280+ mile road trips, and for those there are plenty of Superchargers along my routes. For example I run from Boston to Montreal pretty often, and I have 5 different opportunities to supercharge on that drive. A 15 minute charge will give me plenty to get there with 150 miles to spare. I'll spend 15 minutes just taking a leak and grabbing a snack.

Meanwhile in the Wrangler, I'm getting 12mpg around town so I have to gas it up about once per week. My trip computer reads 190 miles of "range" on a full tank at that mileage. I find myself getting mildly annoyed each time the fuel light comes on, because I'm just not used to going out of my way to grab fuel that much anymore.

My main point is, there is no range anxiety in the Tesla. If that guy was hyper-miling he was doing it because some people consider it a game. They're super easy to live with.
 

DevilDog305

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Wranglers are notoriously bad on gas, what makes anyone thing they wont be just as bad consuming electricity?

What's the point or what's the savings?

People seem to think electricity comes from thin air. Electricity takes just as much fossil fuels to produce.

...again, what's the point?
Actually it does not, for example I can produce all the electricity I need from my solar array on my home not thin air but from the sun, no fossil fuel involved. You don't have to like the idea of this powertrain but trying to bash it makes no sense.
 

VNT

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Not what AAA testing indicates, 41% drop in range due to HVAC use at 20F.

"2. HVAC use results in significant reductions of driving range and equivalent fuel economy.

  • a. On average, HVAC use at 20°F resulted in a 41 percent decrease of combined driving range and a 39 percent decrease of combined equivalent fuel economy (when compared to testing conducted at 75°F).
  • b. On average, an ambient temperature of 95°F resulted in a 17 percent decrease of combined driving range and an 18 percent decrease of combined equivalent fuel economy (when compared to testing conducted at 75°F).
3. Depending on ambient temperature, HVAC use results in a significant monetary cost increase.

The Tesla Model S was amongst one of five electric vehicles tested as part of this study."

https://ww.electrek.co/2019/02/07/study-electric-cars-lose-range-temperature-tesla-disputes/

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KnG818

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Actually it does not, for example I can produce all the electricity I need from my solar array on my home not thin air but from the sun, no fossil fuel involved. You don't have to like the idea of this powertrain but trying to bash it makes no sense.
Yes....because everyone can afford solar.

Curious, how much did your solar panels cost you?
 

four low

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Rooftop Solar is required by law in California, on new residential construction. For those wanting it, Tax Credits are available, and excess electric generated by homeowner is bought by the utility. As storage technology improves, cost will go down.
 

KnG818

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Rooftop Solar is required by law in California, on new residential construction. For those wanting it, Tax Credits are available, and excess electric generated by homeowner is bought by the utility. As storage technology improves, cost will go down.
Lol...california.
 

Goin2drt

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Buy EV because you want it and think you are doing something for the environment, but please don’t thinking it will cost less to own.

I get EV for a small passenger car when you just don’t drive all that much, on a Wrangler no thanks. Those will be left for the mall crawler wives (or if you are in Kalifornia the gender neutral)
 

KnG818

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What's the typical cost of adding the EV charging station to one's home?

***EDIT***Looks like average cost installed is up to $2.7K for a "level 2" charging station. Level 1 is up to $2.3K***

Also, do you need 400A service or does "normal" 200A suffice?

240A is what they take....not sure if that necessitates a panel upgrade or not. Guessing not.
....so, let's say 20K for eaz of numbers.(I believe 20k to be a low number)

How long people think it will take until they recoup savings and/or save anything.

(@Sean K. This not geared towards you, just continuing your comment)
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