Sponsored

Rough draft: Cost analysis of Diesel Wrangler

CarbonSteel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Threads
296
Messages
5,268
Reaction score
7,144
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2023 Ford Bronco Wildtrak
Vehicle Showcase
1
Limp mode will get you home. Refusing to turn on will not. The proportion of and total number of people wheeling JLU 3.0s will be higher than any other modern diesel vehicle in the US. The capability of these rigs compared to the others you reference will be vastly superior, further increasing the chances of a programmed failure far from civilization. Guess we’ll see.
I was not clear on what I meant--there have been many cases of limp mode and complete failures, but there have not been lawsuits (should there be is a different story). I think it is a very bad idea to design a system such that if the emission system fails (or any part thereof), it ham strings or totally disables the vehicle. From my estimation, we have "gone too far" with diesel emissions and if there is no way to design them not to disable the vehicle, then diesel engines are not fit for use in this modern age. The vast majority of the "tuners" out there have been taken down by the EPA for existing vehicles and I would be very skeptical that a new one will suddenly appear for the FCA diesel.

Granted, I do not like the smell of burnt diesel or black soot rolling everywhere, but I also do not relish the idea of when (not if) part of the emission system fails that I will be either stuck somewhere or face an unmanageable repair bill or both. I kicked a 2015 Ford Powerstroke to the curb in early 2018, not due to any issues that it was currently having, but for the future ones that it most certainly would have out of warranty (of course). Everyone has to make their own minds up, but I would seriously suggest that potential buyers (especially those who have not owned a diesel in a while or have never owned a post-2007 diesel) to do their homework and check it twice.
Sponsored

 

ShineJL

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ken
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Threads
7
Messages
83
Reaction score
40
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicle(s)
Jl Wrangler
If you buy a Wrangler w/ Diesel for $3k more than a gasser, come time to sell, the car will be worth $2-3k more than a gasser, so you’re not really losing $3k.

You’re getting more MPG and more Torque. A tuning chip might extract more power and mpg.

You’re getting range and less frequent gas station visits. Time is money.
 

GARRIGA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alejandro
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Threads
18
Messages
704
Reaction score
441
Location
South Florida
Vehicle(s)
Dodge Durango RT
Occupation
Finance
If you buy a Wrangler w/ Diesel for $3k more than a gasser, come time to sell, the car will be worth $2-3k more than a gasser, so you’re not really losing $3k.

You’re getting more MPG and more Torque. A tuning chip might extract more power and mpg.

You’re getting range and less frequent gas station visits. Time is money.
that’s the part I keep pointing out on any discussion where the added cost is used to justify not adding it yet the author fails to realize they will get most if not all possibly back when sold.

I’d like to see a comparison of this diesel Jeep five years from now compared to those who swapped a hemi and how much they recouped from their transformation. Cheapest 400 plus torque for those wanting torque.
 

CarbonSteel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Threads
296
Messages
5,268
Reaction score
7,144
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2023 Ford Bronco Wildtrak
Vehicle Showcase
1
that’s the part I keep pointing out on any discussion where the added cost is used to justify not adding it yet the author fails to realize they will get most if not all possibly back when sold.
Of course, one would need to factor in the cost differential of the fuel (if any) and the increased cost of diesel maintenance over that of a gasoline engine.
 

GARRIGA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alejandro
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Threads
18
Messages
704
Reaction score
441
Location
South Florida
Vehicle(s)
Dodge Durango RT
Occupation
Finance
Of course, one would need to factor in the cost differential of the fuel (if any) and the increased cost of diesel maintenance over that of a gasoline engine.
At that point. Forget the math. Just buy a Prius.

It’s not always about cents vs sense. Sometimes it’s just about smiles per mile. Jeeps in general suck on fuel economy. Brick on wheels usually are. Add diesel. Get brick on steroids. ;)
 

Sponsored

CarbonSteel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Threads
296
Messages
5,268
Reaction score
7,144
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2023 Ford Bronco Wildtrak
Vehicle Showcase
1
At that point. Forget the math. Just buy a Prius.

It’s not always about cents vs sense. Sometimes it’s just about smiles per mile. Jeeps in general suck on fuel economy. Brick on wheels usually are. Add diesel. Get brick on steroids. ;)
I totally agree with the "smiles per mile" it is why I traded an AMG for my Rubicon. The part I struggle with (and this is generally--not meant for you) is that a modern diesel will **almost always** cost more than its gasoline equivalent to own and operate, the difference in MPG fully included. Post-2007 diesels are not the ones of yesteryear and deleting the emissions should not be an option and we have both said--time will tell.
 

GARRIGA

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alejandro
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Threads
18
Messages
704
Reaction score
441
Location
South Florida
Vehicle(s)
Dodge Durango RT
Occupation
Finance
I can’t speak for others but I’m not buying a diesel for its fuel efficiency. I’m getting it for torque and practicality such as being able to have better access to fuel during emergencies such as the guaranteed shortages that occur just before a hurricane and post, combined with the fact their are thousands of truck stops between home and where ever I need to go should the need warrant along with the fact that carrying diesel is safer and refueling from a can is considerably safer because of the higher required heat needed to combust. Cost comparisons don’t take those types of intangibles into the equation.

Current options to obtain torque without going diesel is a hemi swap or LS. The kit alone cost $5k. Crate engines can exceed $20k plus. How much more maintenance would one have to endure to surpass that? Jeep is never getting a hemi factory installed. Sadly.

Something else to ponder. My plan. Drive the diesel for now then when it’s time to upgrade the daily driver turn this into an off-road only vehicle. Bye bye emission control. At that point it sits on trailer until off-road.

Unless an all electric Jeep comes out. That’s my holly grail of leaving the pavement behind and having fun away from crazy drivers and all the chaos I endure to and from where I make the beacon so I don’t have to worry about how much it costs to get a well earned smile. :)
 
Last edited:

JLURD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Threads
20
Messages
1,626
Reaction score
2,306
Location
Alaska
Vehicle(s)
2018 Compass Latitude 6MT, 2020 JLUR 3.0
I can’t speak for others but I’m not buying a diesel for its fuel efficiency. I’m getting it for torque and practicality such as being able to have better access to fuel during emergencies such as the guaranteed shortages that occur just before a hurricane and post combined with the fact their arethousands of truck stops between home and where ever I need to go should the need warrant
Another consideration, in most regions there are sufficient numbers of homes with 200+ gallon home heating oil tanks if things got really ugly.
 

56nomad56

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Threads
4
Messages
132
Reaction score
169
Location
Orange County CA
Vehicle(s)
'19 Ocean Blue JLU Sahara
You have to wait for your kid to dictate where and how you're going to live the rest of your life? Good luck.
One kid in college, one a junior in high school. My wife wants to settle close to where they live so she can be a grandma. Sorry if that means something to us.

That, and we're stuck here for at least 10 more years until we (both public school employees) can retire.
 

Sponsored

CarbonSteel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Threads
296
Messages
5,268
Reaction score
7,144
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2023 Ford Bronco Wildtrak
Vehicle Showcase
1
All those things should go from the engine once the factory warranty is up.
Aside from the obvious extreme pollution that will, happen (and not acceptable as well as illegal) finding a "tune" for the computer will likely be impossible. Most (if not all) of the major shops have been shuttered by the EPA.
 

JLURD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Threads
20
Messages
1,626
Reaction score
2,306
Location
Alaska
Vehicle(s)
2018 Compass Latitude 6MT, 2020 JLUR 3.0
Aside from the obvious extreme pollution that will, happen (and not acceptable as well as illegal) finding a "tune" for the computer will likely be impossible. Most (if not all) of the major shops have been shuttered by the EPA.
You mean significant reduction in CO2 emissions traded for increased NOx and particulate? Let’s not paint the EPA’s value judgements as a black and white form of righteousness. If more people knew their diesel emissions requirements were causing increased CO2 production, maybe this country could have a more rational discussion about environmental stewardship.
 

CarbonSteel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Threads
296
Messages
5,268
Reaction score
7,144
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2023 Ford Bronco Wildtrak
Vehicle Showcase
1
You mean significant reduction in CO2 emissions traded for increased NOx and particulate? Let’s not paint the EPA’s value judgements as a black and white form of righteousness. If more people knew their diesel emissions requirements were causing increased CO2 production, maybe this country could have a more rational discussion about environmental stewardship.
Yes; more or less and I am not an overall fan of the EPA, but post-2007 diesels with emissions are no comparison to pre-2007 or deleted diesels. You could not tell my 2015 Powerstoke was a diesel, zero smell or particulate and from some feet away it did not sound like a diesel either. The same can hardly be said of most deleted diesels whose owners run them rich to "roll coal" or in the quest for more power.

I have seen VERY few deleted diesels that did not smoke under load which tells me the vast majority of the tunes are polluting and with the power desnity of today's mills, many of them are polluting more than pre-2007 levels. I played by the rules when I owned my diesels, most do not and from what I read here many would choose to delete their diesels after the warranty expires in the quest for more power.

To each his or her own, but I do like breathing clean air...
 

Almost

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
122
Reaction score
189
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2022 JTRD
@CarbonSteel

It's all in the tune. Black smoke is wasted HP. My friends deleted and tuned 6.0 powerstroke doesn't smoke at all even at WOT. The only time if ever puts out a slight puff of black smoke is if you smash the throttle from idle and when I say slight, I mean the size of a basketball. Clean tunes can be done while achieving more HP, but those tunes were few and far between and the rolling coal crowed ruined it for everyone.

PDI is working on getting an EPA certified dyno and equipment and will be selling EPA legal tunes that meet emissions and produce more power further proving it can be done. Unfortunately no one ever cared to make clean tunes before and now they all reap what they sow.

That said, I can deal with the emissions stuff, but I will not deal with an EGR that dumps soot right into the engine reducing engine life and it will be the first thing to go.
Sponsored

 
 



Top