Rough draft: Cost analysis of Diesel Wrangler

[Eeshasdon]

I know on my 2016 EcoDiesel there is a gauge to show how much DEF is left. I generally only have to fill once a year unless I am on a long road trip. I would hope the Jeep will also have this feature. Time will tell.

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[BuffaloBill]

I’ve got a 2014 1500 EcoDiesel. Since def’s shelf life is shorter at higher temps, so I don’t fill the tank. When it gets to the red zone I dump in one 2.5gal jug. I don’t have accurate data but am guessing that lasts about 3000 miles or so.

 

[JLURD]

I'm thinking more in the realm of sensor failure limp mode. Sensors will fail, my Ram's fuel sensor failed at 60k for example. Still runs fine. If the DEF sensor fails and the ECU sees 0 DEF, the motor will no longer start, stranding the Jeep in the wilderness.

It’ll be interesting to see how long it takes before someone’s exhaust system fails off-road, stranding the driver and yielding a lawsuit.

 

[toolaide4fit]

I'm thinking more in the realm of sensor failure limp mode. Sensors will fail, my Ram's fuel sensor failed at 60k for example. Still runs fine. If the DEF sensor fails and the ECU sees 0 DEF, the motor will no longer start, stranding the Jeep in the wilderness.

With the advancement of technology there is always the chance of failure. If you go wheeling in ANY vehicle something will break. It isn't if...it is when. If your fear is getting stranded or your vehicle break down on a trail...then DON'T go Offroad. I don't care if you drive a brand new anything or an old no technology anything. It happens all the time to everyone.

 

[toolaide4fit]

With respect.....

Do people actually care about cost effectiveness, or is that just something we tell our significant others to get away with stuff?

NOPE...don't care!

Here is my calculation....

I want it times I can afford it minus it might be a bad decision equals...I still want it! I don't have to justify it, there are NO economics that makes it better...vehicles depreciate...NO BODY WINS! You are going to lose value as you drive it. You will NEVER get the money out of what you put in it.

What you will get is fun, enjoyment, and memories that will be priceless and you can't spend it! This is my second Wrangler and when my adult kids heard I was getting one I couldn't believe the stories and memories they told me about from the first one I had.

I am looking forward to making new memories with my kids and hopefully grand kids! If the diesel is a failure...then I will swap it for a V-8. I am good with my decision and will not regret it no matter what!

If you have to justify purchasing a vehicle you may want to look at getting something other than a jeep. There are others that are more reliable and economical for you to purchase.

Let the fun begin!

 

[JLURD]

With the advancement of technology there is always the chance of failure. If you go wheeling in ANY vehicle something will break. It isn't if...it is when. If your fear is getting stranded or your vehicle break down on a trail...then DON'T go Offroad. I don't care if you drive a brand new anything or an old no technology anything. It happens all the time to everyone.

I agree that any off-road adventure ought to have the gear/ability to walk out or shelter in place until help arrives. However the difference is in why the machine isn’t functioning as expected. If I have a legitimate mechanical or electrical failure while or due to wheeling, I can justify the outcome. If I have a mechanically and electrically sound vehicle which has been programmed to stop because some functionally-unnecessary, EPA-appeasing add-on downstream of the engine is not reporting perfect status back to the ECU and it strands me out of an abundance of environmental caution (whilst I burn fossil fuels to amuse myself), I take issue. The default should be something akin to a seatbelt alarm when these emissions systems fail. Go ahead and drive yourself home and it’ll annoy you until you either do what it asks or disable it. Any programmed mechanical shutdown in a Jeep is otherwise a lawsuit in the making.

 

[toolaide4fit]

I agree that any off-road adventure ought to have the gear/ability to walk out or shelter in place until help arrives. However the difference is in why the machine isn’t functioning as expected. If I have a legitimate mechanical or electrical failure while or due to wheeling, I can justify the outcome. If I have a mechanically and electrically sound vehicle which has been programmed to stop because some functionally-unnecessary, EPA-appeasing add-on downstream of the engine is not reporting perfect status back to the ECU and it strands me out of an abundance of environmental caution (whilst I burn fossil fuels to amuse myself), I take issue. The default should be something akin to a seatbelt alarm when these emissions systems fail. Go ahead and drive yourself home and it’ll annoy you until you either do what it asks or disable it. Any programmed mechanical shutdown in a Jeep is otherwise a lawsuit in the making.

If it is such worry don't buy a modern vehicle...my point is it doesn't enter into my decision to buy one. It is a personal preference. It has no bearing on my decision. You can come up with hundreds of ways a vehicle could strand you...I choose not to worry about things that are low probability to happen. I don't live in a world of "what could go wrong!"

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

Jumping into this thread....I own a grand cherokee ecodiesel, 2014. It has 98000 faultless miles....until last week, where the check engine light went on. Brought it to the dealer (have the 120k warranty on it) and the diagnosis is the catalytic converter is dead, so it couldn't regen, so the exhaust filter is full. Dealer had to order part (ETA Dec 10th)....$2200 part. This is the ONLY money I have ever put into this thing. It has been faultless otherwise. The Jeep definitely doesn't drive correctly, power/boost is limited, but it doesn't seem to be in limp mode, as I can still do 50+ mph. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it again. Geico is actually paying for the part, since I have mechanical breakdown insurance.....the mopar maxcare expressly excludes cats and DPF filters. With the wrangler/gladiator, I do have concerns that I dont have with the GC....and that is stranding. There is a BIG difference between being stranded because of an actual physical mechanical breakdown, and being stranded because the software said so. The diesel will tell you straight up " vehicle will no restart in X miles" if its having an issue. This is a major problem for wheeling, as someone mentioned, a fouled sensor can tell the computer something is wrong, and it can just not restart just because. Now, there are work arounds around it (like removing the starter relay and brute force jumping the starting circuit) but that isn't a solution I like. I would be ok with the vehicle in limp mode, but NOT flat out not restarting. As someone that wheels with my kids, and I go FAR out west, FAR away from civilization (ie canyonlands) I have a real issue with the nanny state of diesels. I've been crying for a diesel in the wrangler/gladiator for ages, and now that it's here, I WAS super happy, but since the EPA cracked down on all the companies, deletes/tunes/reprogramming becoming nearly impossible, Im not sure I want to go down this road. It's really a difficult decision, but I may have to pull out and go with a gasser. Not being able to at the least, reprogram the not restarting nonsense is a real issue. When I got my 14 GC, green diesel engineering and a heap of others had tunes, programming, etc but now, after speaking with them, they will not touch a vehicle registered in the united states. Those coal rolling hicks are partially to thank for it, but that's where we're at.

 

[GARRIGA]

Might be worth getting the vehicle checked before long off road excursions. Something I often do on long on on road trips. Something failing at 80 miles per hour just as much of a concern.

Shit happens. For most of us. That one percent of a percent chance not stopping the fun. For others it’s a valid concern.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

Might be worth getting the vehicle checked before long off road excursions. Something I often do on long on on road trips. Something failing at 80 miles per hour just as much of a concern.

Shit happens. For most of us. That one percent of a percent chance not stopping the fun. For others it’s a valid concern.

Thats the problem, its nearly impossible to check for software issues, or issues that the software HASNT picked up yet (like a dying catalytic converter.).

 

[CarbonSteel]

Any programmed mechanical shutdown in a Jeep is otherwise a lawsuit in the making.

Nearly all, if not all, post-2007 diesels go into a limp mode when the emissions system has a failure. Plenty of 4x4 diesels out there that have had this issue on road and off, no lawsuits that I have seen. Modern diesels are a bad idea for most people, particularly those who assume they are like the "good old days" of diesel ownership.

 

[GARRIGA]

Thats the problem, its nearly impossible to check for software issues, or issues that the software HASNT picked up yet (like a dying catalytic converter.).

There’s a workaround. As it pertains to aging parts. Just replace them early. Software doesn’t just go bad. Something caused it to go bad. Hope is people don’t mess with their CPU.

Ever since we abandoned carburetors in pursuit of squeezing more performance out of the same block or better fuel efficiency with all the emission controls we introduced the chance for ghosts in our systems to reek havoc. It is what it is.

If any are seriously concerned about getting stranded then carry survival gear and always have an EPIRB both personal and a larger unit. Sat phone not a bad idea. Both mostly used for sea ventures but both can be life saving and should be considered as essential as a shovel, Jerry can or lift.

 

[Goin2drt]

Yes people should buy diesel (or electric cars for that matter) based on want not pricing. All these calculations I have seen for diesel and electric cars takes a VERY long time to break even.
I think most buy electric and diesel cars because of preference just like buying a Rubicon vs a Sahara etc. All about choices. If you are buying purely on savings, buy something else

 

[toolaide4fit]

With respect.....

Do people actually care about cost effectiveness, or is that just something we tell our significant others to get away with stuff?

NOPE! I don't! I don't worry about sensor failures. I don't worry about flat tires or running out of Def. You can "What if?" your life to death. Software doesn't go bad! It works exactly as it is programed.

Buy extra sensors! There are work arounds for most everything if you are smart. If you aren't smart then pay someone to have a solution to your problem. Take extra fluids when you go wheeling, because I bet you will need that way before you need a new sensor.

This is all crazy talk. Crap happens everyday to every type of vehicle. They only way to be 100 percent safe and not take risks is sit at home! For all you "RISK TAKERS" see you on the trials. I've got your back and I know you've got mine.

When will they build my new Jeep???

 

[JLURD]

Nearly all, if not all, post-2007 diesels go into a limp mode when the emissions system has a failure. Plenty of 4x4 diesels out there that have had this issue on road and off, no lawsuits that I have seen. Modern diesels are a bad idea for most people, particularly those who assume they are like the "good old days" of diesel ownership.

Limp mode will get you home. Refusing to turn on will not. The proportion of and total number of people wheeling JLU 3.0s will be higher than any other modern diesel vehicle in the US. The capability of these rigs compared to the others you reference will be vastly superior, further increasing the chances of a programmed failure far from civilization. Guess we’ll see.

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