Government to look into steering issues

[Clitwin]

Hello all!

First post here so hello! Thought this article would be a good first post. What are your thoughts?
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...ering-problems-welds-jeep-wranglers/40176407/

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[D60]

Don't worry - we're from the government. We're here to help

 

[Rudolph Hart]

1.3% of owners complained.

 

[apb]

I don't doubt that there are legitimate issues but I have to wonder what % of the complaints are people that have never driven a vehicle like a Jeep and are expecting the car/uni-body/IFS driving experience?

 

[Clitwin]

So I'm a new first time Jeep owner and have had my Jeep for almost a week now. I am also not in any way a car guy (though I plan to change this) and am curious what the "hydraulic device" is they are offering to install.

 

[Bryce]

So I'm a new first time Jeep owner and have had my Jeep for almost a week now. I am also not in any way a car guy (though I plan to change this) and am curious what the "hydraulic device" is they are offering to install.

It's a replacement steering stabilizer.

 

[Bryce]

I don't doubt that there are legitimate issues but I have to wonder what % of the complaints are people that have never driven a vehicle like a Jeep and are expecting the car/uni-body/IFS driving experience?

The term "death wobble" has become so convoluted. I see it used more for loose steering or a vibration rather than the out of control oscillation that DW truly is.

Ya, compared to out Explorer, the Jeep steering is not as refined. Compared to my SFA 2001 F250 on leaf springs, it's a pleasure to drive. Mine did come with the updated stabilizer from the factory.

I'm sure the government being involved won't become a boondoggle!

 

[D60]

On my '19 Rubi the track bar mount welds at the frame are disappointing.

I realize there was some recall action on this. I don't think I'm affected and my opinion is that the welds ain't gonna fall apart, but if you were in your final semester in school you should FAIL based upon visual appearance, body and lack of consistency.

Sad that a major manufacturer mass-producing frames can't put out average to above-average welds.

I only mention 'cause the linked article mentions welds

 

[Flyslinger2]

Don't worry - we're from the government. We're here to help

I'm of the mindset that it will take them so long to investigate this that Jeep will have developed IFS with 20" clearance.

Back to my Diet Coke and Knob Creek impaired senses.

 

[D60]

I'm of the mindset that it will take them so long to investigate this that Jeep will have developed IFS with 20" clearance.

Back to my Diet Coke and Knob Creek impaired senses.

The problem I see is that it's so subjective. I mean Firestone tires exploding, that's fairly clear cut. Knuckles falling off Dodge Durangos - again, easy to see.

But this is a matter of feel and arguably even personal preference (or tolerance perhaps).

I don't disagree that many of the Wranglers had excessive play/wander, but quantifying that is another matter

 

[jmcdtucson]

It's great to see the government getting involved. The fact is companies aren't going to make major expenditures unless they're forced to. There's no question it's an issue. It's by far the biggest complaint on these forums - not even close to anything else I'm aware of.

 

[Vezfly]

I have Falcon 2.2 steering stabilizer, it didn’t fix wandering. The dead spot in steering box is problem. AE box took slop from 3 to 1.25 inches - still is problem and dangerous. I also have a 2017 F250 solid front axle , drives perfect and has no slop. It’s bs people saying the slop is normal for off roading- guess the Germans are smarter with G Wagon

 

[99wishes]

I don't doubt that there are legitimate issues but I have to wonder what % of the complaints are people that have never driven a vehicle like a Jeep and are expecting the car/uni-body/IFS driving experience?

Here is my story...I am not new to Jeeps nor am I a mechanic. I would like to think I am a normal, average driving, adult male. I do know the difference between safe and unsafe driving. That’s my comparison.

It would be great if this Jeep community would help those of us with steering issues rather than say it’s a Jeep thing. As much as I wish it was, it’s not and unfortunately there’s really no two comparisons that are the same. I wish there was a way to measure it and quantify it, but again I am not a mechanic. Comparing it to a CJ, TJ, LJU, YJ, JK, JKU is still apples and oranges. Comparing a Toyota 4Runner or a Ford F150 is still comparing apples and oranges. But in my opinion, these all have better and more responsive steering. That’s just my opinion, I have no data. Comparing a JL to other JLs is the best we can but there are still variables and assumptions with that comparison.

I also want to be clear about what I am referencing; it’s the loose steering, dead zone in the steering wheel, the wandering, and “bump steer”. I put bump steer in quotes because I am unsure what it is called; however, my Jeep jumps around on a regular basis due to minimal and normal road noise or bumps. I love everything about my Jeep except those steering issues. I am a conservative driver who constantly cycles through my mirrors trying to stay aware of my surroundings. When I do this in my Jeep I find myself wandering all over the lane like any drunk driver video. I have to really focus on driving straight and in my lane. That’s concerning not being able to safely check your blind spots because of how much concentration it takes to drive straight. Last, but not least I want to be clear, I am not trying to associate this with the death wobble because I have not experienced that. Thank goodness.

Back to my analysis. For the sake of a baseline or normal as it relates to the average driver in a SUV, I am going to use my wife’s 2016 Acura MDX because it’s sitting in my driveway. Not saying it’s apples to apples, but there is some degree of expectation of steering and how it responds in a modern vehicle. In park with the vehicle on, you can see how much play there is in the steering before there’s resistance. Blue arrow connects seam to dash (light), yellow is steering wheel, and red connects seam to fingernail.

Now same thing in the Jeep. See pictures Jeep 1 & 2. Again parked with engine on. Clearly there is a noticeable difference between the Acura and Jeep. I agree it’s not a true comparison only a reference. I am not saying it is or isn’t a Jeep thing. I am not saying it has to be as tight as the Acura. Jeep or no Jeep this play in the steering is what I am saying is unsafe at any speed.

Okay, maybe you are like the dealer who says “you can’t get a feel for this while the vehicle is parked, you need to be driving”. Same diagram while driving 50mph on a straight smooth road. See pictures Jeep 3 & 4. Notice I am still driving straight! There’s no difference between parked or driving, the dead zone in the steering still exists.

I wish I knew more and I wish this wasn’t concerning to me. I love Jeeps and the idea of loading up the family and getting out of the city is why we have it. My only request is that we do it safely. I have learned a lot from this forum already and I am amazed how much knowledge is out there in the Jeep community. Engineers or not it seems like the forum is loaded with solutions...except on this issue. I get a sense that people are trying to defend the Jeep brand. Our questions about steering issues are not coming from people who hate Jeeps. We love Jeeps, but we have a problem and it would be great to get some real support in getting it fixed even if it’s only 2% of this community. There has to be a simple fix.

 

[D60]

^^I don't think people are defending, they're just not getting it if their rig isn't doing it

I've done plenty of SAS's on TTB rigs and the steering is still plenty tight.

The entire system is stupid simple and if we know it's not play in brand new TRE's it has to be steering box or steering shaft.

I will say though throw some caster into it and it can't hurt. Still, caster won't eliminate slop from a sloppy steering box.

And yeah, it is disappointing that FCA can't achieve basics like building a SA steering system with minimal play, welding on track bar mounts or manufacturing an LSD that doesn't eat itself.

 

[PavementWarrior]

I don't doubt that there are legitimate issues but I have to wonder what % of the complaints are people that have never driven a vehicle like a Jeep and are expecting the car/uni-body/IFS driving experience?

thats not the issue at all. Trackbar and and drag link and steering boxes all went to new versions due to problems, but users are fighting to get it fixed by dealerships making claims like this, oh its jsut a jeep thing. no its not, this is beyond htat.

Alot of guys discovered finger tight bolts day 1.

I had the high speed death Shimmy, and in the wind the garbage bushings slop makes it drive like a drunken sailor. I have owned several solid axle 4x4s all had better steering, my 1985 toyota would kinda hop over half a car length (that will wake you up) but no wobbling wandering, death shimmy or death wobble.

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