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In praise (or not) of ESS? **NO POLITICS**

jellis4148

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I leave ESS on all the time on-road (3.6 auto). I'm fine with it and don't mind it at all. As a few have said, it has changed a bit how I drive. For instance, I don't inch forward at lights anymore, sometimes letting a two car length gap getting created before I take my foot of the brake.

That said, I hate when the engine turns off right before I shift into park, and then turns back on when I do shift into park only to again turn off the engine. I suppose I could turn it off in drive, then shift to park. I haven't tested to see if the engine will actually turn off when not in park. Something to try tomorrow.

Take your seat belt off before you put it in park. That's what I do when I pull in the garage. That way it doesn't shut off, then restart when you put it in park.
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Rahneld

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If I design this "Dual ESS and start button plunger" below, and bring it to market at my cost, will we then be able to not focus on non-ESS related matters? ; - )


ESS solution.jpg


Guaranteed...no battery draining issues, cheaper than any CANBUS solutions (e.g. Tazer, Smartstopstart), no marrying and unmarrying hardware, and it won't void warranty. Weatherproof.

Cynics, the potential energy stored through user plunger releases a few seconds later into the ESS button, post successful engine crank.

Take-the-Plunge (TM)

Any takers? ; - )
 

Maxfly

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I drive a 2.0 and the wife has the 3.6. Put a Tazer in mine because I’ve gone to 37s and changed gears. Hers is new and drove it for the first time yesterday. On take off, I thought something was wrong with the transmission until I realized it was the ESS. Got her Tazer ordered.
 

RERAIL

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So I've seen a lot of negative comments about ESS and I don't get it....

For me personally my experience of ESS is:

1 - it saves fuel and money
2 - it reduces emissions that contribute to climate change
3 - I actually like sitting at junctions or in traffic without the noise and vibration of the engine running (it's hardly the smoothest engine in the world)
4 - it reduces engine wear
5 - the engine always starts within the split second of taking my foot off the brake and moving to the accelerator so quickly and smoothly it's never an inconvenience

I don't subscribe to the view that the constant stop start increases wear on the starter motor etc to any great degree - pretty much every new car here in Europe comes with this system, but if there are other real life experiences I'll listen...

So what's not to like...?

Well, of the points you listed, I can agree with points 3 and 5. Though point three isn't an issue for me. As to the other points. You didn't site any sources or provable facts as a basis for your opinion.

What I don't like about ESS is the added engineering complication it brings to the off road community. And since FCA was just fined 77 million dollars for missing the CAFE Standard, then what the heck was the point of ESS? https://www.carscoops.com/2019/02/fca-fined-77-million-missing-u-s-cafe-fuel-economy-targets/ . Then there is this as to the idea of man causing global climate change. https://www.tothepointnews.com/2017/06/the-soviet-russian-invention-of-the-global-warming-scam/. Seriously read this article before dismissing the idea. The owner of To The Point was the architect behind the destruction of the Soviet Union during the Regan administration.

Just Say'n guys.
 

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mrhumble1

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I think you are overstating it. It’s basically a wash. Sometimes it is just pressing the clutch when i would anyway. Like at a stop sign. And then there are times when i would normally use the clutch but i don’t so ESS won’t reengage. For example not inching up in traffic or putting the Jeep in gear early in anticipation of the light changing.

So managing ESS with the clutch means sometimes using the clutch more and sometimes using it less.
Agree 100% as this is how I use mine as well. In regards to the throw out bearing issue, I
heard the same talk about this when I drove my manual JK and I used to sit at all red lights with clutch in more often than not. Sold the JK last year with over 140,000 miles on the original clutch and never had issues with the clutch or throw out bearing either. Not saying that using the clutch in the manner of holding it in will not degrade the life of the throw out bearing just that my experience shows it didn’t seem to have an impact.

With the JL I tend to NOT hold clutch in if looks like the stop is going to be a while (like at a red light) so that the ESS will engage. I can see how those that drive an auto would have issues with the ESS but for us manual tranny folks it’s actually not bad at all as we have way more control over how and when it kicks in.
^^These guys also get it^^

It's basically a wash.

I am glad someone here understands my explanation (likely because they're both manual JL owners). Like I also said earlier, I bet most JL owners with a manual do the same thing we do because it's a no-brainer to drive this way. None of us are doing anything weird and none of us are ruining the throwout bearing.
 

TCogs1

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Velle suum cuique est, nec voto vivitur uno.

and no reason to castigate the OP, they are entitled to their opinion.
I think the point is, when your concentrating on making a quick merge, it causes a delay that is more of a worry, than a reality. When ESS comes on it still not an expected event. I have had my JL for 6 months and I am still not use to it.. And I still forget to turn it off and it still surprises me..

It is one more thing I don't need or want... Of course I am the guy that went out of my way to make sure I did not have the advanced safety options...

Like others have said, if I wanted all those features and MPG, I would have bought a Tesla..

I wanted the simplest Jeep I could buy...

I have spent my days (many too), on the trail broken down and going back and forth to Napa auto replacing this electronic thing, then that.. then waiting for a $3 part to get shipped in etc...

Less parts, less software = less problems...

I have not figured out how to get rid of it yet.. but that stupid little battery and ESS is on my hit list.

just IMO..

I hope you all have a great day!

Thanks for posting!

TC
 

stil2low

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Interesting thread to read while down for pushing emissions, better go tell the bosses that pollution is all a hoax and let’s push some bombs :CWL:
Had to since we are heavily governed for our evironmental impact

For me I hardly notice the ESS kick in other than the heater starts to blow cold and sometimes I actually have to make it turn off at a light because I’m not pushing the brake in far enough
As far as wear to the engine, the system won’t do any harm starting and stopping a warm engine that’s been pumping oil. It’s got lube at all seals, valleys and rings. Oil pump is driven off the crank so as soon as the starter engages it is pumping oil again and being a dual stage pump it bumps up to high pressure upon restart

0F4AAF4A-B7A2-4E71-9673-9F6BEFD721A0.jpeg
 

WIJLU

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I don't agree with this logic.

Since you already spent money buying the ESS system in the first place you might as well recoup some of the cost. You literally have to do nothing for ESS to work. It takes more time & money to program around it so that you can get the benefit of... spending more money on fuel.

It's OK to turn ESS off if because you don't like it, but to turn it of because it doesn't save enough money is not logical.

You thought this through too much...I don't base my hatred for ESS on logic. I hate it because it annoys the hell out of me. I spent money buying it ONLY because I didn't have a choice. I spent money to work around it so it doesn't annoy me anymore. The annoyance is NOT worth the cost savings to me. Just my opinion.
 

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cktlarge

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Turn on the Jeep -> push the disable button. Such a force of habit now, I push random stereo buttons when I drive any other vehicle.
 

stil2low

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Doesn't an engine emit more emissions when you start it then when it idles?
In an non ESS system yes, the vehicle goes into a cold loop cycle until the o2 sensors get back up to operating temp and send proper signals. The ESS system fire the engine back up in open loop so it doesn’t emit the excess hydrocarbons.

Can see for yourself the difference in start, get to operating temp and let the system shut off and restart, RPMs go right to idle. Shut it off via the “key” and restart you will see the rpm jump up higher than normal idle then come back down as gets reading from the o2 and other sensors
 

Wrangler-NS

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I like the idea of it for most of the reasons you mentioned. I'm not convinced it doesn't cause additional wear of gaining a minute amount of fuel savings. The manufacturers will do anything they can to meet the standards for new vehicles - even if that means sacrificing other things. I don't trust them so I don't believe it.

I've turned my off via my Tazer JL. The real reason for me is I just don't find it smooth. I've almost stalled out at times where it cuts out or does not engage fast enough or smoothly enough when taking off. I've been in other vehicles where the implementation of it is a lot smoother. For now, it is a no for me on ESS in my Jeep and it is turned off.
 

Jo's Jeep

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It is impossible to talk about ESS without talking politics because they are unequivocally connected; and that's all I have to say about that...

Knowing things is both a blessing and a curse. Being old enough to see the cycle repeat it's self is only a curse because people never seem to learn from the past.
 

festerdan

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Just a note for ETCMSSRetJoe:

On a 2019 JLU Rubicon w/ a manual transmission there is a button which disables ESS, it just needs to disabled each time you start the vehicle.
My automatic has this same button. I don't believe this system helps anything, but I'm to absent minded to remember to turn it off each time. When I'm in an off road situation I will turn it off. However I do like it at the drive through.
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