This is Death wobble

[DeVoTee]

That’s a great video that visually depicts what is causing the dead spot in the steering on that particular Jeep. For the apologists who claim the issue is because of aftermarket wheels or lifts that screw up the amazing work of the genius Jeep engineers, how is this explained? Do the size and weight of the wheels on the Jeep or the caster angle factor into how the pitman arm isn’t moving on the output side of the gearbox when the sheering shaft is clearly moving a lot on the input side? I’m asking seriously. It looks really simple to me, but maybe there’s something that I’m missing that somebody can explain to me how modifications would cause this.

I think it's tooo soon to tell. In addition to the mechanical/hydraulic system there is the ECU and speed sensors (electronics) that all have play nice with each other. Next Q..... is or was it built to push 37'-40" tires around? Time will tell!

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[Chocolate Thunder]

I think it's tooo soon to tell. In addition to the mechanical/hydraulic system there is the ECU and speed sensors (electronics) that all have play nice with each other. Next Q..... is or was it built to push 37'-40" tires around? Time will tell!

I understand the concept of physics that big heavy wheels/tires take more energy to turn due to them having greater rotational mass pushed further away from the axis requiring greater force to move at a given speed. But this isn’t showing it strain to move a heavier load. It’s not moving AT ALL when the input shaft moving. How do the wheels or other steering or suspension parts stop the gearbox from moving the output shaft in tandem with the input shaft?

 

[rustyshakelford]

Full disclosure

I installed the steer smart stuff last night and kept the steering stabilizer off. Went to do a test drive and had DW but it was much more violent due to the steering components not deflecting at all.

Loaded it on the trailer this morning for a double check of alignment (mainly toe) and also check balance on the tires. Alignment wasn’t bad but corrected the toe from the installation of new parts and caster was 6.5/6.8. Installed steering stabilizer while it was there.

Tires were around 3.5oz off each. They stripped all the weight and started fresh. I think each took about 4.5 oz each.

Brought it home and did a test drive. Much much better. In a spot that would give me DW every time only gave me a little shimmy I could drive thru. It’s much better, still not 100% though. Next step is Redneck ram I’m afraid. Glad to be back driving it again though

Brett

 

[Moto_21]

Full disclosure

I installed the steer smart stuff last night and kept the steering stabilizer off. Went to do a test drive and had DW but it was much more violent due to the steering components not deflecting at all.

Loaded it on the trailer this morning for a double check of alignment (mainly toe) and also check balance on the tires. Alignment wasn’t bad but corrected the toe from the installation of new parts and caster was 6.5/6.8. Installed steering stabilizer while it was there.

Tires were around 3.5oz off each. They stripped all the weight and started fresh. I think each took about 4.5 oz each.

Brought it home and did a test drive. Much much better. In a spot that would give me DW every time only gave me a little shimmy I could drive thru. It’s much better, still not 100% though. Next step is Redneck ram I’m afraid. Glad to be back driving it again though

Brett

Sucks it didnt fix it after all that. But thanks for the update. Hopefully you can find the fix for it.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

Glad it’s at least drivable now.

 

[DeVoTee]

I understand the concept of physics that big heavy wheels/tires take more energy to turn due to them having greater rotational mass pushed further away from the axis requiring greater force to move at a given speed. But this isn’t showing it strain to move a heavier load. It’s not moving AT ALL when the input shaft moving. How do the wheels or other steering or suspension parts stop the gearbox from moving the output shaft in tandem with the input shaft?

I assumed you had an advanced knowledge of the subject matter (I can tell by your thoughtful posts).... Was just trying to state that I don't think Quality Control and Design (steering boxes) in addition of the quirks/programing of the system have been completely sorted out. I think there is more than one issue for both loose steering and DW. The reason FCA hasn't developed a fix. I think they (FCA) are still trying to sort things out. The Difference between driving test mules and having 40,000, 50,000 and more vehicles hit the streets.

Bret.. Good Luck with continued success

 

[IPvFletch]

Full disclosure

I installed the steer smart stuff last night and kept the steering stabilizer off. Went to do a test drive and had DW but it was much more violent due to the steering components not deflecting at all.

Loaded it on the trailer this morning for a double check of alignment (mainly toe) and also check balance on the tires. Alignment wasn’t bad but corrected the toe from the installation of new parts and caster was 6.5/6.8. Installed steering stabilizer while it was there.

Tires were around 3.5oz off each. They stripped all the weight and started fresh. I think each took about 4.5 oz each.

Brought it home and did a test drive. Much much better. In a spot that would give me DW every time only gave me a little shimmy I could drive thru. It’s much better, still not 100% though. Next step is Redneck ram I’m afraid. Glad to be back driving it again though

Brett

Thanks for the honest update. Keep it coming.

Redneck Ram??????? Do tell...

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

I assumed you had an advanced knowledge of the subject matter (I can tell by your thoughtful posts).... Was just trying to state that I don't think Quality Control and Design (steering boxes) in addition of the quirks/programing of the system have been completely sorted out. I think there is more than one issue for both loose steering and DW. The reason FCA hasn't developed a fix. I think they (FCA) are still trying to sort things out. The Difference between driving test mules and having 40,000, 50,000 and more vehicles hit the streets.

Bret.. Good Luck with continued success

Makes sense. I do have advanced knowledge of many things automotive and suspension in particular, but still learning the quirks of Jeeps. I agree with you that DW and play in the steering are different issues, but can see how they might exacerbate one another.

Sorry to take the thread on something of a tangent, but it’s related.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Makes sense. I do have advanced knowledge of many things automotive and suspension in particular, but still learning the quirks of Jeeps. I agree with you that DW and play in the steering are different issues, but can see how they might exacerbate one another.

Sorry to take the thread on something of a tangent, but it’s related.

I love how we all have such diverse backgrounds. Love for you to come take it for a spin and see what you think! It’s getting there but it’s a process I’m working thru. I’m thinking I’ll take it to my buddy Jason and just have him go thru it one piece at a time. He’s never had one he couldn’t fix and he’s literally the best Jeep builder and one of the most talented fabricators I’ve ever met.

Brett

 

[rustyshakelford]

Thanks for the honest update. Keep it coming.

Redneck Ram??????? Do tell...

Redneck ram is a hydraulic steering assist system. You send them your steering box, they tap and port two lines. You’ll them mount a 1.5” (I think) hyd cylinder near where the steer smart stabilizer relocation bracket goes. It acts like super power steering. Helpful if you rock crawl and need to turn against a rock. It’ll actually move the Jeep over at idle. For my use, I think it’ll be another layer to absorb shock and give the steering system strength. I’d consider this a nuclear option for the death wobble and think of it as more as a crawler improvement.

Brett

 

[rustyshakelford]

Sucks it didnt fix it after all that. But thanks for the update. Hopefully you can find the fix for it.

We’re still working thru it. There’s definitely not a magic part that cures everything for everyone. That said, the steer smart stuff is awesome and I honestly believe it should be on every built Jeep.

Don’t know if I’ve said it here or not, every lifted JL we turn out from our shop will have a steer smart drag link and tie rod at a minimum. If it doesn’t come with what we consider a quality track bar, it’ll be steer smart too. I’m not risking anyone’s safety over $1400 of parts. If it’s the make or break cost deal, I’ll install for free if that’s what it takes to get them in a safe Jeep. After the personal experience with this, we’re not going to compromise

Brett

 

[beachbumm78]

Just wanted to give a shout out to those who've been going through the dreaded death wobble. Was test driving a Jeep today, and asked the sales guy about this (just curious what his reply would be---I know haha). Before the question was hardly out of my mouth he was assuring me that the '19s did not have this issue, nor would a brand new one have it. That is was only those that lifted their jeep above 2.5" and/or put on different tires. uh huh..... 100% positive I've read posts on here about those that have had it that haven't done any mods to their Jeeps. Hopefully when mine comes in I won't have it & I wish ya'll the best getting it fixed! But thanks for all the info and things you've posted to help me know what to look for

 

[IPvFletch]

Just wanted to give a shout out to those who've been going through the dreaded death wobble. Was test driving a Jeep today, and asked the sales guy about this (just curious what his reply would be---I know haha). Before the question was hardly out of my mouth he was assuring me that the '19s did not have this issue, nor would a brand new one have it. That is was only those that lifted their jeep above 2.5" and/or put on different tires. uh huh..... 100% positive I've read posts on here about those that have had it that haven't done any mods to their Jeeps. Hopefully when mine comes in I won't have it & I wish ya'll the best getting it fixed! But thanks for all the info and things you've posted to help me know what to look for

Wow, this just proves most sales guys are idiots. I've seen more DW reports from 100% stock owners than I have from modified Jeep owners. If anything I would guess most lifts/upgrades can actually help (they could make it worse too, esp. if cheap parts are used which can wear out). But just a blank statement tells me he is ignorant about this topic, yet acting informed.

I still think it's a very small % of the Jeep population that experience this. Maybe 5%. Hopefully yours will be fine. Welcome to the club, and ATX REPREZENT!!! Also be sure to check out Austin Jeep People on FB!

 

[rustyshakelford]

Just wanted to give a shout out to those who've been going through the dreaded death wobble. Was test driving a Jeep today, and asked the sales guy about this (just curious what his reply would be---I know haha). Before the question was hardly out of my mouth he was assuring me that the '19s did not have this issue, nor would a brand new one have it. That is was only those that lifted their jeep above 2.5" and/or put on different tires. uh huh..... 100% positive I've read posts on here about those that have had it that haven't done any mods to their Jeeps. Hopefully when mine comes in I won't have it & I wish ya'll the best getting it fixed! But thanks for all the info and things you've posted to help me know what to look for

You’ll have access to a bunch of great shops in the atx area but if you need anything for your JL and don’t mind a 2 hrs drive come see us.

Brett

 

[beachbumm78]

You’ll have access to a bunch of great shops in the atx area but if you need anything for your JL and don’t mind a 2 hrs drive come see us.

Brett

Thanks! Yes I should here. Guess I should start looking around for shops here since my order date is getting closer. But when it comes to good work I don’t mind driving and 2 hours isn’t bad. I’m always driving to Houston.

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