Lift. Am I getting screwed?

[offcamber]

As I have said in another post I did measure my front axle and rear axle and they were off about a quarter of an inch but after the lift settled with the weight of a Warn winch and other components on the front, the axles are now centered both front and rear. Yours may not be this way as I have seen you state in other post. As I’ve also posted and this is just my opinion I do not believe all of these jeeps are made the equally from the factory. From reading problems that other people are having I’m having to assume that the geometry is different on some jeeps.

You do realize that it is physically impossible for your axles to be centered unless your lift netted 0" of lift. When you lift the Jeep it lifts away from the axle. If you do not either move the attachment point of the trackbar to the axle/frame or lengthen the track bar, It is going ot move the axle to the frame side. it is just the laws of physics. If your track bar is not off, then either 1) you dont know how to measure properly 2) got a faulty lift that did not lift the Jeep. or 3) Installed an adjustable trackbar or relocation bracket. or 4) are lying. One of those 4 is true.

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[Bearman95]

You do realize that it is physically impossible for your axles to be centered unless your lift netted 0" of lift. When you lift the Jeep it lifts away from the axle. If you do not either move the attachment point of the trackbar to the axle/frame or lengthen the track bar, It is going ot move the axle to the frame side. it is just the laws of physics. If your track bar is not off, then either 1) you dont know how to measure properly 2) got a faulty lift that did not lift the Jeep. or 3) Installed an adjustable trackbar or relocation bracket. or 4) are lying. One of those 4 is true.

Well I don’t believe I’ve ever been called a liar on this forum, Thats a new low even for here! Have you ever thought about that you got a faulty jeep from the factory!? I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree because mine rides, handles and drives perfectly and yours did not before spending that extra money on extra components . You have a good day sir!

 

[plex]

Lets just be honest here, if you do a lift (non mopar or non dealer installed), anything happens to your suspension, the dealer can rightfully deny your warranty. Any lift, regardless of how well it is designed, is changing the factory engineering design especially geometry. So you have to factor that in your decision to lift.

However, the dealer should not deny your warranty claims on components such as uConnect, cabin trim, windshield just because you have a lift.

 

[Blu bi Kong]

Well I don’t believe I’ve ever been called a liar on this forum, Thats a new low even for here! Have you ever thought about that you got a faulty jeep from the factory!? I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree because mine rides, handles and drives perfectly and yours did not before spending that extra money on extra components . You have a good day sir!

Oh oh!

 

[Jaym]

The dealer isn’t going to void your warranty for some electrical problem if you have a lift, but if you have a suspension issue or steering issue they are not going to cover it.

The manual says it may not be covered unless it’s a Mopar part installed at a authorized dealer. Sure you can reference that law, but FCA will know when to fight and when to not fight. I’m not saying you shouldn’t go aftermarket, but, if you’re worried you’ll likely get less hassle of your dealer does it.

Back to the question. I bought the Mopar kit for $1200 and dealer will install for $460.

 

[offcamber]

Well I don’t believe I’ve ever been called a liar on this forum, Thats a new low even for here! Have you ever thought about that you got a faulty jeep from the factory!? I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree because mine rides, handles and drives perfectly and yours did not before spending that extra money on extra components . You have a good day sir!

I didn't call you a liar. I simply stated a list of possibilities. . I'll try one more time to explain it. The sole purpose of the track bar is to keep the Jeeps axles centered. It is positioned on the axle and frame so that it provides a linkage between the two and is such a length that when connected, the axle is centered left to right. If you simply lift your Jeeps suspension, it moves the point at which it attaches to the frame higher. The track bar is a single piece of metal. It does not lengthen or shorten, therefore installing taller springs raises the attachment point up. With the fixed length track bar, if the attachment point goes up and the length can't change the axle gets pulled to the drivers side of the Jeep at almost 1/3 the length of the distance raised. It's simple physics. Your front axle will shift about 3/4 to 1" to the drivers side. The rear axle will get pulled the opposite direction a similar distance. The Jeep was designed so that with the factory suspension, the axle was centered. The track bar is the mechanism which performs the function of centering the axle. If you lifted the Jeep and did not change the length of track bar on it, the axle HAD to have shifted 3/4 - 1", it's just simple geometry. If it did NOT shift with the lift, then something is wrong with your Jeeps geometry (ie something somewhere is bent).

 

[Freddiejeep]

Not sure where you are located, but I just dropped my 19 JL to the dealer in Boise and the mopar lift will be $1800 installed and they are selling me the 35BFG KO2s for $1680 installed. They will credit me $500 back for the stock tires, so total price after trade is around $3,000. No spacers or programer for me though.

Great price!

 

[EZMFE]

I guess where people get confused on the track bar deal is when not taking into account fixed track bar length, accessory weight, and that the vehicle has suspension that allows the body to move up and down on the axles.

So lets take a stock Jeep suspension. The track bars are designed to center the axles at the stock height.

We have decide to install a metal bumper and winch on our Jeep. You see, this Jeep came with a lightweight plastic bumper and now that we have put a substantial amount of weight on the front, it has lowered the front suspension 1.5". As a result of this added weight, the front track bar wants to push the axle out toward the passenger side. Since it has a fixed length and there is no where else for it to go, the axle will move or be pushed toward the passenger side. So if enough weight was put on the front of the vehicle the track bar could potentially push the axle toward the passenger side an inch or more. This axle travel from left to right is normal since the body has the ability to travel a few inches up and down when hitting a bump or flexing the suspension.

Now if we go back to only having the plastic front bumper and we throw a 3" lift on this vehicle, it is going to push the axle in the opposite direction than in the previous example. Since the body is farther away from the axle, the track bar and it's fixed length have no choice but to try and force the axle toward the drivers side. Now, if you could put enough weight on the front of the vehicle, the track bar would push the axle back to center but you would have to put enough weight on the front to take it back to the stock height.

Take that metal bumper and winch that you have and install it at this point. Will it correct some of that axle offset? Sure, it will add weight and move it closer to the passenger side. It will move it back closer to center but is it going to be truly centered? Not unless that bumper and winch lowered the vehicle 3" or back to the stock height that the track bar was designed for.

There is most likely an inch or so of suspension travel that will put you in the sweet spot where the axle actually looks, feels, and tastes like it is in the center but as you can see, with enough weight you could actually take it past center and toward the passenger side.

So, with even the smallest lift, the axle is not going to be truly in the center unless you add adjustable track bars and/or track bar brackets or the vehicle is lowered back to stock height with weight. The same thing goes for the rear track bar but the sides that push out are reversed. Due to the inch or so of play do you need track bars/track bar brackets for a small lift? Only if lifting up and over 3". For anything lower you may not "see" a difference is the centering of the axle. Especially if you have added additional weight.

I believe the Mopar lift was designed for steel bumpers, winches, and some additional weight in the rear but even that may not center up the axles enough to be comfortable for some.

 

[Spartan99]

Excellent explanations on the geometry. Thanks for sharing.

 

[rustyshakelford]

At 3.5" of lift, you need to replace the front driveshaft. Why? the angle on the joint is such that the driveshaft WILL prematurely wear out. The funny thing is that I got 3.5" of lift from the Mopar lift. As such, my front driveshaft is at an excessive angle and I fully expect to need to replace it soon. I like the way the Mopar lift rides, BUT the lift as packaged is incomplete. I paid $895 for my lift on ebay which I was comfortable with. After I bought Rockrawler spring perches (the Mopar ones are poorly designed and will fail sooner rather than later), Rockrawler front and rear adjustable trackbars, it was around $1300. The lift is of great quality, but it's simply incomplete for the amount of lift it gives you.

The dealer can't void your warranty for ANY repair for using non-Mopar parts unless they have a justifiable cause for why the parts might have caused a failure. Whether it is a Mopar lift that gives 3" of lift or a metalcloak lift, Mopar is within their right to not warranty a front driveshaft. 3+" of lift puts the driveshaft at an excessive angle and will cause it to prematurely fail.

Driveshaft needs to be replaced with a smaller diameter one. The stock one will get it’s boot torn from rubbing on the crossmember. Tearing the boot will expedite the failure of the stock

Brett

 

[punknking]

So i went down to 4 wheel parts today to scout out pricing on a lift for my JLUR. With the mopar lift (which I requested) , Toyo 35’s, programmer, spacers they quoted me around $6,000! And that’s with no wheels ordered.....using the stock rubi wheels. I talked them down to $5,200.....still crazy to me.

I have some questions:

1 - the mopar lift for the 2.0 I found on amazon for $1,200. They were wanting $1,689 for it. Pretty much I found every part they quoted me cheaper online. Is it better for me to just order everything and just pay for labor with them or the dealer? Good idea or do they hate customers like me?

2 - I’m wanting to use my stock Rubi wheels ....good idea? Will spacers hurt me in the long run?

3 - I really want the lift.....will I regret it? I owned a JKUR and I lifted it in the past....granted it was a cheap lift kit, the ride was terrible. I’ve pretty much never experienced a good lift. Now I’ve got the Rubicon of my dreams and I wanna do it right. Any words of encouragement?

4 - any recommendations on wheel and tire?

Your paying dealer showroom floor pricing for that... like the sport rigs they put a mopar lift, beadlocks, 35s and painted 20 in rims and sell for 10 K over MSRP prices.

run away. you can get the mopar lift installed for way cheaper at the dealership. Tires are like 2k with new rims on discount tire direct

 

[LukeTheSpook]

For the original OP. I was offered by the dealership $1500 for the Mopar lift minus 15% coupon. Then they quoted me 8 hours labor at $119 and $90 for alignment. I told them to check that again because I thought it was way out of line with other places/dealers. Never heard back from them.

4 wheel parts quoted me the following. Mopar lift plus tax and install and alignment for less than $2k. Not a bad deal. I ended up getting the following:

Mopar lift
Alignment
Beefed up stabilizer bar
315/70r/17 pro comp sport at’s (5)
XD wheels
Spare relocation

$4700 out the door.

I thought it was an decent deal.

 

[word302]

Well I don’t believe I’ve ever been called a liar on this forum, Thats a new low even for here! Have you ever thought about that you got a faulty jeep from the factory!? I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree because mine rides, handles and drives perfectly and yours did not before spending that extra money on extra components . You have a good day sir!

Did you even read what he wrote? It's geometry dude. If your able are centered with your lift then they weren't centered before the lift. It's really that simple.

 

[word302]

Lets just be honest here, if you do a lift (non mopar or non dealer installed), anything happens to your suspension, the dealer can rightfully deny your warranty. Any lift, regardless of how well it is designed, is changing the factory engineering design especially geometry. So you have to factor that in your decision to lift.

However, the dealer should not deny your warranty claims on components such as uConnect, cabin trim, windshield just because you have a lift.

Of course, but it's on the dealer to prove that the aftermarket components caused the problem. If you know and understand the law you have no issues putting a better quality lift on your Jeep.

 

[plex]

Of course, but it's on the dealer to prove that the aftermarket components caused the problem. If you know and understand the law you have no issues putting a better quality lift on your Jeep.

Sure, but we all know dealers can pull all kinds of shit tactics against you, and are you really going to fight with them to teeth or hire lawyers?

There are nice dealers, but there are more shitty dealers as far as I know. For example, in my area most Jeeper I know avoid the 5-6 dealers we have here like plague. I have a buddy brought in his Jeep because of rattle in the dash, and dealer refused to look at it and said it was because of his 37s tire shake something behind the trim.

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