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Gas milage and drivability of 4.10 Rubicon gearing vs 3.45 Sport gearing

drogers

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The 8-speed is an auto in which the odd gears are controlled by one clutch and the even gears by another. When shifting from, for example, first to second, the transmission already has second in position to immediately receive torque when the “odd clutch” lets go of first. The transmission then lines up third gear so it is ready to receive torque when the “even clutch” lets go of second.
There’s been no indication nor confirmation from anywhere I’ve seen that the 8 speed in the JL is a dual-clutch design. In fact, all signs point to it being the same old 8 speed ZF automatic we’ve seen in plenty of other cars. While ZF does make a dual-clutch 8 speed, it’s pretty new and currently only used in the Porsche Panamera.
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FCrackerJLRubi

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Hard to put a number on it exactly without real world tests. I would venture a guess of 3 mpg, and there are so many factors that go into it. If gas is a concern but you are shopping for a Wrangler regardless of that, then the obvious choice is a Sport. With a Rubicon its not just gas mileage and the gearing, its as others said the height, the different aerodynamics, driving styles, auto vs manual, the added sprung and un-sprung weight of thicker axles, shafts, larger ring and pinion, larger tires, etc.

So many factors without real world tests its pretty impossible to calculate.
 

CantThinkOfAHandle

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"gearing is going to reduce your mileage by about 19% (cuz 4.10 / 3.45 = 1.19). In other words, the engine is going to have to spin 19% more than 3.45-equipped JL to go the same distance."

Is this actually correct? I don't understand mechanics. Does fuel consumption increase linearly with engine RPM as gearing changes? If I downshifted a bicycle so that I had to pedal twice as fast to maintain the same speed, I would not be working twice as hard, I don't think, because I would do less work for each rotation. Doesn't the same apply to vehicles?
 

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The 8-speed is an auto in which the odd gears are controlled by one clutch and the even gears by another. When shifting from, for example, first to second, the transmission already has second in position to immediately receive torque when the “odd clutch” lets go of first. The transmission then lines up third gear so it is ready to receive torque when the “even clutch” lets go of second.
That would be neat, but I've not read anywhere that it is of that design.
 

DanW

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"gearing is going to reduce your mileage by about 19% (cuz 4.10 / 3.45 = 1.19). In other words, the engine is going to have to spin 19% more than 3.45-equipped JL to go the same distance."

Is this actually correct? I don't understand mechanics. Does fuel consumption increase linearly with engine RPM as gearing changes? If I downshifted a bicycle so that I had to pedal twice as fast to maintain the same speed, I would not be working twice as hard, I don't think, because I would do less work for each rotation. Doesn't the same apply to vehicles?
That equation is given the same tire diameter, right? The 33's need to be factored in. The 3.45 set up includes smaller diameter tires.
 

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FCrackerJLRubi

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"gearing is going to reduce your mileage by about 19% (cuz 4.10 / 3.45 = 1.19). In other words, the engine is going to have to spin 19% more than 3.45-equipped JL to go the same distance."

Is this actually correct? I don't understand mechanics. Does fuel consumption increase linearly with engine RPM as gearing changes? If I downshifted a bicycle so that I had to pedal twice as fast to maintain the same speed, I would not be working twice as hard, I don't think, because I would do less work for each rotation. Doesn't the same apply to vehicles?
like @DanW said, this does not factor in larger tires so 19% is far from accurate.
 

Jrbrannan

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like @DanW said, this does not factor in larger tires so 19% is far from accurate.
It is hard to say, I would think it would be fairly close, within 1 MPG either way. There are just too many factors that are to be considered. The tire selection itself can make 1-2 mpg difference, as can the gear you are driving in. I know it sounds counter intuitive but lower RPM does not always equal better MPG. When I had one of my lifted TJ's I got better gas mileage on the interstate in 4th than I did in 5th. I assume because even though the engine RPM's were higher the motor was not "working" as hard in 4th.

Another thing to consider is who cares... I remember I was at a dealer several years ago and some guy came up looking at a Hummer H2 and asked about the MPG's, and the salesman just laughed and said if you have to ask you shouldn't even consider it. My point is that a Rubicon is the most capable stock vehicle made on this planet, so you either want that or you do not. It will not ride quite as nice as a sport and will have louder tires, and larger tires which can be more difficult to handle, but at the end of the day you either want the most capable off road vehicle on the market and you are willing to put up with some small quirks or you don't. I would tend to say if you have to ask, go with the sport.

With that said it would be great to take a stock Sahara, Sport and Rubicon out and see what the real world differences truly are though.
 

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That equation is given the same tire diameter, right? The 33's need to be factored in. The 3.45 set up includes smaller diameter tires.
Fuel consumption is not just linearly related to engine RPM. For an Otto Cycle (gasoline 4-stroke) engine, the lowest brake specific fuel consumption-BSFC-(i.e. highest thermodynamic efficiency) typically occurs near full throttle at a low/mid RPM. This is because Otto engines must throttle the air intake (unlike diesels, which have no throttle), so low throttle conditions aren't very efficient because a lot of energy is wasted in the throttle losses. Higher RPMs aren't as efficient because parasitic friction losses scale with engine RPM. Taller gearing increases efficiency because it increases the throttle setting and decreases the RPM required to cruise at a certain speed.

https://x-engineer.org/automotive-e...ormance/brake-specific-fuel-consumption-bsfc/

However, modern Otto engines have pretty big 'sweet spots' in the BSFC plots, thanks to variable valve timing and other tricks, so modest changes in gearing alone don't make a huge difference in MPG. The Rubicon will have worse fuel efficiency than other trims mostly because of:
-More weight (250-400 lbs depending on trim)
-Higher moment-of-inertia wheels/tires/axles/diffs/etc
-More rolling resistance/frontal area from wider tires
The shorter gearing doesn't help, but it's more an response to the drawbacks above than a drawback on its own.
 
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Quigley

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It is hard to say, I would think it would be fairly close, within 1 MPG either way. There are just too many factors that are to be considered. The tire selection itself can make 1-2 mpg difference, as can the gear you are driving in. I know it sounds counter intuitive but lower RPM does not always equal better MPG. When I had one of my lifted TJ's I got better gas mileage on the interstate in 4th than I did in 5th. I assume because even though the engine RPM's were higher the motor was not "working" as hard in 4th.

Another thing to consider is who cares... I remember I was at a dealer several years ago and some guy came up looking at a Hummer H2 and asked about the MPG's, and the salesman just laughed and said if you have to ask you shouldn't even consider it. My point is that a Rubicon is the most capable stock vehicle made on this planet, so you either want that or you do not. It will not ride quite as nice as a sport and will have louder tires, and larger tires which can be more difficult to handle, but at the end of the day you either want the most capable off road vehicle on the market and you are willing to put up with some small quirks or you don't. I would tend to say if you have to ask, go with the sport.

With that said it would be great to take a stock Sahara, Sport and Rubicon out and see what the real world differences truly are though.
Well, Jrbrannan, I can give you some real world experience on my factory stock 1998 2 dr Sahara, that I bought new in 1998. I drove it every day to work, 50 miles roundtrip. I also 4 wheeled it every where in the Colorado Rocky's from Durango to the Roosevelt State forest in N. CO. There wasn't a single place the Rubi's went that I could not and I have a lot of time on the trails. Finally sold it at 156,000 miles to a someone who was making a present of it to his 16 yr old son. Over the life of the vehicle, if you keep them as long as I do, mpg makes a significant monetary difference.

I disagree with the flippant statement by the salesman, "that if you have to ask, you shouldn't consider it". I can afford to buy any Jeep made today. There is nothing wrong with being frugal, even if you don't have to be.
 

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Well, Jrbrannan, I can give you some real world experience on my factory stock 1998 2 dr Sahara, that I bought new in 1998. I drove it every day to work, 50 miles roundtrip. I also 4 wheeled it every where in the Colorado Rocky's from Durango to the Roosevelt State forest in N. CO. There wasn't a single place the Rubi's went that I could not and I have a lot of time on the trails. Finally sold it at 156,000 miles to a someone who was making a present of it to his 16 yr old son. Over the life of the vehicle, if you keep them as long as I do, mpg makes a significant monetary difference.

I disagree with the flippant statement by the salesman, "that if you have to ask, you shouldn't consider it". I can afford to buy any Jeep made today. There is nothing wrong with being frugal, even if you don't have to be.
Nobody gets wealthy by wasting money.
 

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Jrbrannan

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Well, Jrbrannan, I can give you some real world experience on my factory stock 1998 2 dr Sahara, that I bought new in 1998. I drove it every day to work, 50 miles roundtrip. I also 4 wheeled it every where in the Colorado Rocky's from Durango to the Roosevelt State forest in N. CO. There wasn't a single place the Rubi's went that I could not and I have a lot of time on the trails. Finally sold it at 156,000 miles to a someone who was making a present of it to his 16 yr old son. Over the life of the vehicle, if you keep them as long as I do, mpg makes a significant monetary difference.

I disagree with the flippant statement by the salesman, "that if you have to ask, you shouldn't consider it". I can afford to buy any Jeep made today. There is nothing wrong with being frugal, even if you don't have to be.
It is not meant as a flippant statement. A Wrangler is not a Prius, it is okay gas mileage but my point is get what you want, if you have to ask the question about if you should get the Rubicon or Sport based on the MPG then you should go with the Sport. Both are great in their own rights, and I would not judge anyone for any type of car they drive but I just think it is silly to let the determining factor on if you get a Rubicon down to a possible 1 MPG difference. Based on your example of 156,000 miles the difference of 1 MPG is $1200, nothing to sneeze at but over 20 years you are actually only looking at $5 a month, certainly should not be a deal breaker in buying what you really want.

I am in your position as well, I CAN buy what ever I want, I will probably buy the Rubicon just because when I crunch the numbers it is what fits, (I want to run 35's and by the time you add the lift if is around even money over a comparable Sport) but I am pouring over every option and what is the best bang for the buck. But again a Wrangler is a WANT not a NEED, so it should really come down to what you WANT as long as you can afford it. A couple grand over 20 years should not keep you from you really want (assuming you are already maxing out your 401k and not saddled with debt).
 

Jrbrannan

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Nobody gets wealthy by wasting money.
Actually no one gets rich when they buy a JEEP (Just Empty Every Pocket)- almost every financial advisory would discourage you from buying a brand new car. Toyota Tacoma and Wrangler would probably be the exception based on the retained value over the years. But with that said I think most people who talk about building wealth would say pay cash for a vehicle that does not exceed 10-15% of your annual salary. I very much doubt many people here are in that situation.
 

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Actually no one gets rich when they buy a JEEP (Just Empty Every Pocket)- almost every financial advisory would discourage you from buying a brand new car. Toyota Tacoma and Wrangler would probably be the exception based on the retained value over the years. But with that said I think most people who talk about building wealth would say pay cash for a vehicle that does not exceed 10-15% of your annual salary. I very much doubt many people here are in that situation.
Most rich people would say finance your vehicle at ~2.5%, and invest your free cash flow into equities (assuming your investment horizon is more than a decade or so). For whatever reason, vehicle loans are just about the cheapest credit you can get (with good credit scores, obviously).

Pay off your 'bad debt', incur 'good debt', invest all your free cash flow, and be patient. That's really all it takes to earn generational wealth.
 
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Quigley

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It is not meant as a flippant statement. A Wrangler is not a Prius, it is okay gas mileage but my point is get what you want, if you have to ask the question about if you should get the Rubicon or Sport based on the MPG then you should go with the Sport. Both are great in their own rights, and I would not judge anyone for any type of car they drive but I just think it is silly to let the determining factor on if you get a Rubicon down to a possible 1 MPG difference. Based on your example of 156,000 miles the difference of 1 MPG is $1200, nothing to sneeze at but over 20 years you are actually only looking at $5 a month, certainly should not be a deal breaker in buying what you really want.

I am in your position as well, I CAN buy what ever I want, I will probably buy the Rubicon just because when I crunch the numbers it is what fits, (I want to run 35's and by the time you add the lift if is around even money over a comparable Sport) but I am pouring over every option and what is the best bang for the buck. But again a Wrangler is a WANT not a NEED, so it should really come down to what you WANT as long as you can afford it. A couple grand over 20 years should not keep you from you really want (assuming you are already maxing out your 401k and not saddled with debt).
Nope, I retired with no debt. Still don't have any. Don't believe in it.

I will pay cash.
 
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Quigley

Quigley

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Most rich people would say finance your vehicle at ~2.5%, and invest your free cash flow into equities (assuming your investment horizon is more than a decade or so). For whatever reason, vehicle loans are just about the cheapest credit you can get (with good credit scores, obviously).

Pay off your 'bad debt', incur 'good debt', invest all your free cash flow, and be patient. That's really all it takes to earn generational wealth.
I have yet to find any "good" debt since the real estate boom in California during the late 70's early 80's.

If you have any leads, pm me! :like:
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