Anti spin versus limited slip?

[Arrowhead]

Maybe you might want to wheel it some more as is and see how it goes. If you end up being "that guy" that's getting stuck and holding everyone up needing to get winched, then maybe consider an upgrade. I don't know how challenging the trails are that you go on, but unless your planning some big trips across country to do some epic trails you might be just fine.

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[chilly_one]

Me either. The red dash is fugly.

Even if there currently aren't any lockers available that will fit your axles, it won't be long before there are. The aftermarket is pretty quick to make Jeep items since they know there's a strong market.

I'm guessing you'll want selectable lockers....which means ARB or Yukon Zip lockers. Most of the electronic ones are pretty questionable....OX has cable actuated ones, but the ones I've seen in person seem to have problems engaging when you're flexed up. The Eaton Electrics had lots of initial problems with a vulnerable interface at the diff and Auburn's Ected never worked like a real locker....ended up being more of a LSD. Granted, I'm not current on the electric offerings....perhaps by now they've improved. ARB and Zip are proven pneumatics.

I really like the Red Rubis with the black leather seats, but that red dash just doesn't look right at all. If the red actually matched the body, then it would probably be ok. But definitely not a fan of two conflicting reds.

 

[Jeep 5150 2112]

Limited slip diffs have a clutch that wears out over time ...

It wears out? Any way to prevent this or slow down the wear?

 

[Arrowhead]

The Anti spin differential is a pretty simple design. The discs and friction plates are sandwiched between the back side of both side gears and the differential housing. The natural thrust pressure exerted by the side gears is what make the discs and friction plates resist turning or "lock up". The down side is if there is no resistance from one wheel (it's up in the air), the clutch packs may not have have enough thrust pressure from the side gears to lock the axle up with the spinning differential. Some designs add a spring or springs to preload the clutch packs. The old school trick was to apply a little brake which gave the side gear of the spinning wheel enough thrust pressure to engage the clutch. The Jeep's brake lock differential system effectively does this for you when you are in that situation (but then again it works on both front and rear whether you have anti spin or not). Anti spin requires no electrics or pneumatics and it won't negatively affect driving on the street. Yes, they can wear out like any other wear part on a vehicle (100k miles?), but it's a relatively easy in vehicle repair. It's a nice feature to have in a lot of situations like snow or mud. You get the extra traction from two wheels without having to lock in 4x4 every time you come upon a slick spot. (Happens a lot up her in the winter when the roads are dry but there are intersections or driveways are snow and ice). There other types of lockers and anti spins out there and everyone of them will have pros and cons.

Any kind of differential locking system on the front axle has to be treated with respect. For low speed rock crawling there is no substitute, but for any other kind of wheeling you have to be extra careful as when the front is locked, your ability to turn is significantly reduced. After all the whole point of a differential is so when you go around turns, the wheels can turn at different speed, with them locked, it's going to want to go straight.

The Rubicon has an awesome electric locking system, just keep in mind it's only operational in low range under 10mph (that's my understanding - i'm sure some one will correct me). You can get an aftermarket programmer to allow other operating parameters though.

You can see the Anti spin clutch packs in the picture below:

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

I wonder if you can just order rubicon axles, if that would work or not?

The Rubicon axles in their stock form might not be compatible with your selec-trac 4 Auto. Pretty sure you have CV joints in the front of your Sahara with selec-trac. Not sure why? Maybe for steering in 4 Auto at high speeds? So you’d have to avoid 4 Auto or install CVs in the Rubi front axle.

 

[Bubba33]

Not really....they have to run 'friction modifier' in the fluid to keep them from wearing out immediately....but usually by 36K miles...they're just like an open diff except a lot more complicated and expensive to fix if there's a problem or you want it rebuilt.

I've had lsd for 30 years and never had one wear out or break. Where in the hell do you get there just like a open differential at 36000 miles.

 

[Uhdinator]

Roky, You actually may have somewhat of an advantage for on road and light trail riding in that you have LSD rear that works in 2WD/4WD high and low. Plus traction control. The Original first year Rubicon had LSD rear and Air Lockers in front and rear. I have traversed many obstacles in my 03 Rubicon using only 4 lo and rarely needed to engage the lockers due to having the LSD as well and no traction control. The JL Rubicon has no LSD i guess they decided it was not needed due to traction control and 4Lo lockers. So in 2WD or 4WD High you have a decent rig that has more than the Rubicon does in 2WD and 4WD high. As far as I know the LSD in my 03 Rubicon still works with 175,000 miles on it.

A better description of open diffs is they provide 50/50 torque to each driven wheel on that axle with the same traction. One wheel comes off the ground or is in mud and the other is not. Now the wheel with no traction requires little to no torque to spin it so the other wheel with traction gets 50% of 0 or does nothing. Elect Stability Control (ESC) deals with sensing one axle is spinning faster than the other such as in 4H on a snowy highway and corrects it with braking both wheels that are spinning faster. Tap the traction control once as in turning it off and it defeats the stability control. The vehicle no longer cares if one axle is going faster than the other. You may want this if stuck in the snow and want the front axle to spin faster than the rear to get out. With the trac control off, the brake lock differential (BLD) still works.

The BLD applies braking to the spinning wheel, basically tricking the differential in to sensing traction or torque required and transfers 50% of that sensed torque to the non spinning wheel. Applying gradual controled acceleration as the braking is automatically applied to the spinning wheel gradually increases torque to overcome resistance from braking and transfers 50% of that torque to the wheel with traction.. Here's more info. https://blog.fcanorthamerica.com/2008/02/11/jeep-brake-traction-control-explained/

This is a 2007 JK with no lockers and crappy tires for off road use. It does pretty well for the tires it has, and I'm sure the system is likely improved since then.

 

[Bubba33]

Uh...I have a Trac-Lok in my '02 Dodge 4x4 Cummins rear Dana 80...it's open AF at 58K miles....and was long before that. It's only had one diff fluid change with Mopar friction modifier in that time, and I've owned it since new. I'm not the only one who's experienced very short life spans on Trac-Lok rear ends, YMMV.

I had no problem with my 03 Cummins. Changed fluid once in a 100,000 miles. I've had 3 chryslers and no problems, and many g80 , which is different, I know. And in some old hot rods too. This whole post about to get lockers is kinda funny. The OP needs to just run it and I'll bet he will be surprised how well it does. Without the lockers. And a open rear end is never better in the snow.

 

[Arrowhead]

Mostly agree....

I differ in saying your ability to turn is "significantly" reduced. Depends on what you mean. If you mean your turning radius increases, yes. If you mean it's hard to steer....ONLY when you're rig is bound up in big boulders...then you just unlock the front......steer, then re-lock when your line onto the obstacle has been corrected.

I guess I could have been a little more clear. If you have a locker engaged or any kind of full time traction aid on the front, the vehicle will want to go straight with the wheels turned in slick and low to no traction situations. Going on a muddy trail that twists and turns up a hill, you need to be on the gas around a turn but you'll have severe under steer with a passive locker. That's why an on demand front locker is really the best way to go.

 

[Tech Tim]

So, is there any way to change to lockers? Or do you have to buy the rubicon to get them?

We have ARB Air Lockers in stock at @Northridge4x4 for both the 186mm (D30) Sahara & Sport front axle, ARB pn#RD100 and for the 200mm (D35) Sport & Sahara non-anti-spin rear axle, ARB PN# RD244.

ARB Air Lockers for the 220mm rear axle (D44) that are found in the Rubicon and that come with the anti-spin rear axle package in the Sahara and Sport models will be released by the first of the year (2019).

 

[InvertedLogic]

I find that most folks who love their "posi" or LSDs haven't run lockers so they don't really know what they're missing...

I wish that Jeep would use a Torsen helical gear style LSD. I'm not a fan of clutches that wear out, but with the Torsen, there's no clutches to wear out. I put an Eaton Trutrac in the rear and an Eaton ELocker in the front of my TJ and it's a great combo for weekend warrior duty.

 

[XTrooper]

Limited slip diffs have a clutch that wears out over time ...

Everything wears out over time.

 

[Torero]

Mostly agree....

I differ in saying your ability to turn is "significantly" reduced. Depends on what you mean. If you mean your turning radius increases, yes. If you mean it's hard to steer....ONLY when you're rig is bound up in big boulders...then you just unlock the front......steer, then re-lock when your line onto the obstacle has been corrected.

As far as snow/ice is concerned......I've driven on a fair amount of ice and snow over the years, I don't see a full locker (auto or selectable) being a disadvantage at all....one just has to know how it works and drive accordingly. With an auto locker, like a Detroit/Grizzly, gas input....be it getting on or off the throttle can mean breaking traction...so you have to be somewhat smoother with that input....just like you would brakes on ice.

The oft touted 'downside' of a true locker on ice/snow is that when you lose traction on one tire on one axle, you generally side slip to whatever side is downhill since both tires are losing traction whereas with an open/lsd diff, one tire....the one not moving...is acting as an anchor. I'd counter that with....ya, but at least you're moving.

Oh....and I'd also recommending hot-wiring/programming your lockers to work in 2 and 4H...but that's just me.

There is only one glitch in your statements. The Detroit locker is completely different than any limited slip or auto locker. The Detroit locker is the opposite: the default mode is locked. The only way it unlocks is when one tire spins faster than the other. That only occurs when turning and the outer tire goes faster because of the larger circumference it has to travel. And that is the problem on ice. The outer tire may not have enough traction to go faster and the locker remains locked. It makes for a different kind of driving altogether on very slippery roads while turning.
The limited slip is the opposite, default is open and only locks when one tire goes slower than the other.

 

[Tech Tim]

I find that most folks who love their "posi" or LSDs haven't run lockers so they don't really know what they're missing...

Sooo true! Posis (LSDs) have their place and they can work just fine for some people. However, they will never offer the same traction that a true locker (automatic or manual locker) can offer.

 

[ChattVol]

Great, thanks!

The guy in the link below explains very well how/why lockers improve capability offroad. According to my friend who seriously offroads and rock crawls in custom buggies, he's seen many mediocre looking 15-20 yr old jeeps with lockers, 30" all terrain tires and no lift run circles around newer jeeps with nice lifts and 35" mud terrains, but no lockers. With that said, I would think the vast majority of wrangler owners dont have a real need for lockers. I thought I was apart of the majority and now find myself wanting to add economical lockers(ARB is too expensive) when they come out for jlus. In hindsight, I really wish I wouldve paid $6k more for a rubicon(wife wouldnt aporove) and recently considered trading my sport in, but I'll get crushed on the trade in due to having already done $3500 in mods. Here is locker explanation link:

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