“You'll Almost Have to Buy an Electric Vehicle if Climate Bill Passes”

[4xFUN]

For now, keep your EV's and plug them in...
I am perfectly happy driving my 3.6 JLR and my 700+HP (soon to be 900+)TRX!

I do NOT need big brother telling me what, when and where to drive...

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[SophieNoel]

It's not a valid comparison. Computers can become obsolete because of interoperability. If it reacts with the outside world and if the outside world changes in some way that necessitates software upgrades that won't work on your operating system then you're out of luck. But even at that, I have used laptops for 10 years before replacing them.

Most of what you are talking about in a car is embedded software. The algorithms and chips may change on newer cars but that doesn't mean the old ones stop working or that you must upgrade them.

Most people who are wowed by the tech in a Tesla are always looking for the latest and greatest. We also keep our laptops for as long as they will operate. But that’s also why I’m not drawn by the dash of the Tesla. If a Tesla owner keeps their car as long as they would own their iPhone or iPad until the next generation is released, the secondary market will be full of old Teslas that one one will want.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

There was the same reluctance to give up horse/buggies 120 years ago. Frankly, I'm shocked that ICE lasted so long, Big Oil continues to have us in palm of their hands. Imagine a world where the USA was able to largely ignore the Middle East. Oil is the ONLY reason that we continue to put up with their silliness.

Oh....and there's that part about preserving a future for our grandchildren.

Big Oil? The energy density, transportability, and long amortized capital infrastructure of liquid hydrocarbons is nothing to be sneezed at nor sneered at. Yes humanity’s reliance on petroleum is now operating at a scale that it’s killing the planet and we need to find a solution. But we love our cars.

 

[DaltonGang]

Another "Troll Thread".

 

[devnull]

Welcome to the forum. Nice to see you here.

thanks bud! We are the nulls here yet again hahaha!

 

[Oncorhynchus]

As it should. There are people that actually work in these fields, and then there are people who can’t be bothered with the truth because they’ve made up their mind. It’s why I rarely post in threads like this.

The value of such threads is that they reveal the character and intellect of the respondents. In a virtual world, online community, it serves an invaluable function.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

t
As a believer in personal choice guided by need, want, finances, and market forces I have no animosity against EV’s or their owners. I do have great animosity against market forces being manipulated by taxpayer funded bribes, electric ratepayer funded bribes, mandate, regulations, production percentages, energy policies, EPA and MPG standards, even preferred parking starting to appear for EV’s to push us into them because the powers that be want it, and they want it Now.

Do you feel great animosity towards former President Eisenhower for the US interstate system? The market cannot solve every problem. It’s a matter of balance regarding which problems we want to leave to the market (or the tragedy of the commons) and which we want to accelerate the time to solution.

I like the way Stellantis is hedging it’s bets on alternatives to ICE in their fleet. I also like the fact that Ford is going all in and making a big bet, taking a chance. Very different strategies but both are reasonable business choices. My hat tips to both Tavares and Farley.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

I've got an open mind on all of this.

On one hand, I love my big powerful ICEs. I just rode in a friend's JK with a 460 hp MoTec Chevy LT1 and a 10 speed AT and its amazing.

On the other hand, I recently drove a friend's Tesla Model S Long Range. Its got about 700 hp and can do 0-60 in 3.0 seconds.

It is quite simply the quickest car I've ever driven.

The current problems with EVs is not range. His Tesla already has more range than my Jeep.

The problems are:
1) Recharge times - I can gas up in 10 minutes. His car takes hours.
2) Availability of places to recharge.

All of these problems will resolve themselves over the next 10 years. At that point, EVs will be a real alternative to gas. Until then . . NO.

At this point, the best all around powertrain is the plug in hybrid.

Toyota makes a fantastic system that they use in the RAV4 Prime.

It is the second quickest vehicle in Toyota's lineup, other than the Supra. It is also the most fuel efficient vehicle in Toyota's lineup other than the Prius. So overall pretty amazing.

In the RAV4 it can give you about 45 miles of pure electric. But if you ignore the plug in aspect it simply gets you 40 mpg and blasts you through quarter in 13.9 sec at 100 mph.

Anyone who know cars knows that a 100 mph terminal speed in the quarter is a quick car.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33028735/2021-toyota-rav4-prime-xse-by-the-numbers/

RAV4 is a potential sleeper that could have cross-segment car shoppers taking notice.

 

[jellis4148]

-100-200 mile range phev with gas engine taking over after = makes no sense
-Hummer EV is the worst example of an EV possible
-Electric vehicles do not have a higher carbon footprint over their lifespan, you just made that up.

It makes complete sense. The Hummer EV, Silverado EV, Tesla, and several other all electric cars are too expensive for normal people to have as a daily. Not all, but a lot are. The Chevy Bolt can be bought for $26,000 and will go 260 miles. Unfortunately with its size it takes a lot of people out of its market. Anyone is a family can't really use it. Not enough room. It's a commuter car for one. Here is the TedTalk verifying what I just said about Hybrids. There is countless other articles saying the same thing.

 

[jbcrane]

BTW you have your own darkroom or are you mailing film out to a lab?

I do have a darkroom, and do all my own black & white printing. I process all my own black and white film (Ilford chemistry), but still send out my E6 & C41. Regulating temperature for accurate color is too hit or miss. Here's a link if you have some time to kill: Colorado

 

[NewJLU2019]

Man, this country and world is F---upped as it is we don't need it spilling over to the Jeep forum.

 

[jbcrane]

It makes complete sense. The Hummer EV, Silverado EV, Tesla, and several other all electric cars are too expensive for normal people to have as a daily. Not all, but a lot are. The Chevy Bolt can be bought for $26,000 and will go 260 miles. Unfortunately with its size it takes a lot of people out of its market. Anyone is a family can't really use it. Not enough room. It's a commuter car for one. Here is the TedTalk verifying what I just said about Hybrids. There is countless other articles saying the same thing.

This was a good watch. Thanks for the link.

 

[JJM]

so are General Motors and Pilot FlyingJ “the government” now? Because they’re the ones partnering to build 2,000 chargers every 50 miles on interstate highways
https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...tions-pilot-travel-centers-ev-go/10058051002/

I don't care how far a corporation will go to advance their ESG rating - The future will evolve - We're not there yet - A jump at this time to a technology that forces us to even more heavily rely on China as they threaten war, and comes with heavy government regulation in carbon taxes that strangles our economy deliberately for a global agenda designed to diminish American strength, is lunacy.

 

[JJM]

There hasn’t been a performance vehicle on sale with a BBC is a long time.
Not sure why you are correlating new car sales going EV to losing the freedom to build a BBC.

big blocks suck anyway unless you’re trying to make 2000hp, which means you’re probably running a 2 speed trans, hardly a “joy of driving” setup.

WRONG - ENJOY YOUR EV

 

[JJM]

There's nothing forcing people to switch, but it may be in your best interest. The economies of scale that allow gas prices to be low (and no one wants to hear it, but $5/gallon is still low) will evaporate over time. The cost in 10 years to fill a tank with dino-juice is going to be staggering (Think $13 per gallon) as refining winds down capacity based on diminished demand.

Steam engines were better than ICE when ICE came out. And lordy, there's was no place to get gas! I can't believe that inferior technology caught on. (It's a sneak peak at our future.)

I'm going EV in 5 years. Going to give it another generation of development.

The way that technology is advancing at such an exponential rate, who knows, 5 years might be a time that is right, as long as we do not need to rely on an adversary like China for the tech.
Now is not a time to limit the fossil fuel industries and consider them an enemy with regulations that strangle our economy, and start shutting them down.

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