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“You'll Almost Have to Buy an Electric Vehicle if Climate Bill Passes”

AlgUSF

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Freaking joke! The power grid cannot handle the air conditioners running and they want to add more load to the grid? Electric is not good for the environment! Stop drinking the kool-aid!
.... and where does the electricity come from? If you're in the south, most of it comes from coal or natural gas. Hardly zero emissions. What about mining all of the metals in the batteries, certainly not environmentally friendly, neither is the manufacturing and disposal of said batteries.

Back in my day they taught Economics in high school and covered trade-offs and opportunity costs etc.
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ASMSAS

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Lithium is a finite supply and right now it goes into everything “hip”. Wait it out, attitudes will change.
 

Chupacabra

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.... and where does the electricity come from? If you're in the south, most of it comes from coal or natural gas. Hardly zero emissions. What about mining all of the metals in the batteries, certainly not environmentally friendly, neither is the manufacturing and disposal of said batteries.

Back in my day they taught Economics in high school and covered trade-offs and opportunity costs etc.
Even from a coal fired plant, the emissions output to charge an EV are far less than the tailpipe emissions from an ICE. And electric doesn't have to come from coal, as infrastructure gets cleaner, so does your EV.

EVs are generally not zero emissions that is true, but they are lower emission than an ICE and can only get better. An existing ICE will never get any less polluting.
 

kakwvu

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Even from a coal fired plant, the emissions output to charge an EV are far less than the tailpipe emissions from an ICE. And electric doesn't have to come from coal, as infrastructure gets cleaner, so does your EV.

EVs are generally not zero emissions that is true, but they are lower emission than an ICE and can only get better. An existing ICE will never get any less polluting.
Coal also isn’t the US’s (or many countries in Europe) main source of fossil fuel produced electricity, which highlights how little people have actually looked into the matter.

People also keep talking about how bad mines are, and it shows that they’ve also never driven through a community with hardcore fracking, mountain top removal, or ones with facilities that refine those raw materials. There’s no free lunch, but there are newer, cheaper alternatives, and the tech driving it will only get better.
 

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Bzinsky

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Keep your electric tree hugging to yourself.

Wait until a hurricane or major storm tear through your neighborhood without electic for weeks. Let see how far u can go!
Yeah because gas pumps function without electric
 

jellis4148

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I think when all the EV dust settles you will find that most manufacturers make a few all electric, but the majority of vehicles will be PHEV. They will have about 100-200 mile range on electric, and the gas engine will take over after that. Most people would never use the gas engine that way. All electric vehicles have a higher carbon footprint than an ICE when you look at its life. The majority of people buying the Hummer EV, and other ones like that are rich people who want to show out and show off. It's stupid. I do love the tech in a lot of these EV's, and would love to see it move to regular cars. GM tried to make there fleet of executive vehicles all electric. They shut it down fast cause it cost them more to do that than to put everyone in a crew/cab 4wd truck. It's just a marketing ploy. In 2035 GM will not be all electric. It's just what people want to hear right now.
 

Bzinsky

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kindergarten politics seems to be your strong suit. Hyper confidence in small portions of the story are always the argument.

Look at me, I’ve got a ZERO emissions vehicle (plugged into a coal factory, powered by lithium)

saving the planet one EV at a time!
Lol at thinking most EV owners buy EV to save the planet.
 

Bzinsky

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I think when all the EV dust settles you will find that most manufacturers make a few all electric, but the majority of vehicles will be PHEV. They will have about 100-200 mile range on electric, and the gas engine will take over after that. Most people would never use the gas engine that way. All electric vehicles have a higher carbon footprint than an ICE when you look at its life. The majority of people buying the Hummer EV, and other ones like that are rich people who want to show out and show off. It's stupid. I do love the tech in a lot of these EV's, and would love to see it move to regular cars. GM tried to make there fleet of executive vehicles all electric. They shut it down fast cause it cost them more to do that than to put everyone in a crew/cab 4wd truck. It's just a marketing ploy. In 2035 GM will not be all electric. It's just what people want to hear right now.
-100-200 mile range phev with gas engine taking over after = makes no sense
-Hummer EV is the worst example of an EV possible
-Electric vehicles do not have a higher carbon footprint over their lifespan, you just made that up.
 

NULL POINTER

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kindergarten politics seems to be your strong suit. Hyper confidence in small portions of the story are always the argument.

Look at me, I’ve got a ZERO emissions vehicle (plugged into a coal factory, powered by lithium)

saving the planet one EV at a time!
Welcome to the forum. Nice to see you here.
 

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smokeythecat

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Not to mention longevity... how long will a EV last? You see how rapidly computers and consumer electronics become obsolete. Anything relying on software, computer chips, algorithms and deep technology seem to be phased out in a relatively short amount of time. (I'm aware my '21 Wrangler also has a lot of computer chips and software, and not super pumped about that). I wonder what the life span of a 'typical' EV will be?
It's not a valid comparison. Computers can become obsolete because of interoperability. If it reacts with the outside world and if the outside world changes in some way that necessitates software upgrades that won't work on your operating system then you're out of luck. But even at that, I have used laptops for 10 years before replacing them.

Most of what you are talking about in a car is embedded software. The algorithms and chips may change on newer cars but that doesn't mean the old ones stop working or that you must upgrade them.

Additional note: EVs are not the first cars to rely on chips, software and "deep technology." Any car you have purchased for decades now has relied on multiple on-board computers.
 
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Oncorhynchus

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All that energy needed for charging those EV’s has gotta come from somewhere. It ain’t windmills. All I’m saying. 🤐
You’re saying part of the story. A fossil fuel power plant has higher energy efficiency than an automobile’s internal combustion engine. EV motor has higher energy efficient than a fossil fuel plant. Exact figures vary by EV type and power plant design but overall the EV ecosystem is less fossil fuel intensive. EVs are not a panacea. We’ll also need investments in modernizing the electrical grid including energy storage as well as improvements in electricity generation such as building gen IV nuclear plants and designing gen V nuclear architectures. And there are some applications, even some consumer grade (not industrial grade) uses, where I just don’t see ICE vehicles ever being replaced with EV in our lifetime.

One thing we probably all can agree on is the at click-bait headlines always hook multiple fish.

I would love to have an electric 2 door Wrangler though would prefer a diesel Grand Cherokee for mild towing.
 

Oncorhynchus

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You can have my ICE when you pry my cold, dead, clawed hand from the stick shift. A hybrid Jeep maybe... but I hope never to drive the appliance called a EV. It has no soul. BTW, I also shoot film in my cameras and journal with a fountain pen. On real paper. So there's that.
Porsche Taycan would disagree about the soul. But I agree with your point. There are no EV’s that don’t feel like appliances and are currently affordable for the mass market.

BTW you have your own darkroom or are you mailing film out to a lab?
 

Bzinsky

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Bc that’s the assertion made 💁‍♀️
So one poster mentions that they are better for the planet in the long run, and you somehow deduce the intent of all EV buyers buy them for the sake of the planet?
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