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TrailRecon drops the Diesel

Coronado

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Brad/TrailRecon should have recorded the overheating; safe assumption he had video equipment in his rig, right? The dude has time, on camera, to promo his relabeled coffee but not time to record something as serious, as substantive as overheating of his JLURD under load? His channel is TrailRecon (think: “off-roading and over-landing”) and not some shill for rebranded coffee, tees, caps and the newest, shiniest 4x4.
Oh, wait….I’m mistaken. My bad.
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AZ-Chris

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If you live and regularly drive in the mountainous west, just don't plan on towing with Jeep EcoDiesel any time soon.

I run a 6" lift and 37" tires . . . I regularly see 250 degree oil temperatures when cresting Arizona mountain grades on the highway and holding the speed limit - - I AM NOT TOWING. Too me, it seems dangerously close to having the engine derate. While I have yet to experience an engine derate, I have scrapped all plans on towing an offroad trailer until an engine/oil cooling solution comes to market.

I have recently been in contact with BulletProof Diesel that I know is actively engaged in working on this problem. I still have no idea when a solution will be offered, but I know they intend to provide a solution.
 
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Zandcwhite

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If you live and regularly drive in the mountainous west, just don't plan on towing with Jeep EcoDiesel any time soon.

I run a 6" lift and 37" tires . . . I regularly see 250 degree oil temperatures when cresting Arizona mountain grades on the highway and holding the speed limit - - I AM NOT TOWING. Too me, it seems dangerously close to having the engine derate. While I have yet to experience an engine derate, I have scrapped all plans on towing an offroad trailer until an engine/oil cooling solution comes to market.

I have recently been in contact with BulletProof Diesel that I know is actively engaged in working on this problem. I still have no idea when a solution will be offered, but I know they intend to provide a solution.
Don't tell the other diesel guys, they get offended. If you didn't record it it didn't happen. They can put any vehicle into limp mode by just looking at it. You should drive around with the heater on so the cooling system works. And all the other bs excuses we've witnessed in this thread. Of course the heater trick helps, as does turning off the AC, but I stand by the statement that the cooling system shouldn't be that marginal to need all those tricks towing a small trailer in mild climates.
 

AZ-Chris

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. . . but I stand by the statement that the cooling system shouldn't be that marginal to need all those tricks towing a small trailer in mild climates.
This is 100% veritas! BulletProof Diesel has confirmed that the cooling system is marginal at best. The radiator is too small/inefficient in its current form. The problem is, enlarging the radiator is not easily accomplished without several other modifications needing to happen as well . . . driving cost up substantially. They are also looking at an auxiliary oil cooler, but the requisite plumbing runs also complicate matters. I have no idea what their ultimate solution will be, but they have already invested more than a considerable amount of time as is. I got their assurance that a solution will come.
 

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I like Brad a lot. I was probably influenced by him I admit in my JLURD purchase a year ago. I pull a similar size trailer but have had no overheating issues, admittedly not gone over the CO Rockies. I love my Jeep and so far really enjoy the benefits of the diesel after 15,000 miles, 2.5” lift and 37’s.

I was indeed surprised by his comments on his JLURD and sale. like Others I think he should have been more transparent with his viewers regarding his DEF and overheating issues.

But I’ll still drive my diesel Jeep all over America and Alaska pulling my trailer. We’ll still watch Brad too.
 
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Don't tell the other diesel guys, they get offended. If you didn't record it it didn't happen. They can put any vehicle into limp mode by just looking at it. You should drive around with the heater on so the cooling system works. And all the other bs excuses we've witnessed in this thread. Of course the heater trick helps, as does turning off the AC, but I stand by the statement that the cooling system shouldn't be that marginal to need all those tricks towing a small trailer in mild climates.
Your post seems a little aggressive. I am not making any excuses for anything. Newer vehicles run hotter, if that is news to you, then, welcome to the party. Jeeps have marginal cooling systems, if that is news to you that is surprising. Not sure where the excuse part of the post is? I don’t doubt for 1 second that trailrecon put his in limp mode, I don’t need video to believe it. I have seen a JK do it many times. I Have had my JL for 1 month, but when I bought it I knew it would have a marginal cooling system. I spent a lot of time letting my last Jeep cool down when it was about to limp.

I think that is the new normal for mileage sake. EPA is what it is. If you are climbing long grades at altitude on hot days with a load, your Jeep will get hot, it might limp. Other vehicles are going to do it also, but maybe 35s and shaped like a loaf of bread with winch and lights over the grill doesn’t help a Jeep.

I’m outta this one!
 
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tjklein

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This is 100% veritas! BulletProof Diesel has confirmed that the cooling system is marginal at best. The radiator is too small/inefficient in its current form. The problem is, enlarging the radiator is not easily accomplished without several other modifications needing to happen as well . . . driving cost up substantially. They are also looking at an auxiliary oil cooler, but the requisite plumbing runs also complicate matters. I have no idea what their ultimate solution will be, but they have already invested more than a considerable amount of time as is. I got their assurance that a solution will come.
Having been a diesel guy with many of trucks/suvs, for a decade plus, this is the smartest comment I've read on this forum. Thank you!

1 - it wasn't designed to tow, w/ 37" tires, in the mountains. Let's be clear.
2 - the issue is cooling and if you're going to modify the Jeep then for god's sake modify the cooling system to match.

Sorry, I just see so many uneducated posts about diesels, DEF, and everything else. (regarding a diesel) They can be fickle beasts, but they are awesome...if you understand how they work and the limitations.
 

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If you don't want one don't buy one problem solved. Who the hell buys a Wrangler to drag around all that garbage anyway. You know what the weight restrictions are on the platform. If you need a trailer to drag around a bunch bullshit that you are promoting for your youtube show fine just say "Diesel didn't work out for my show, I would show a video but darn I forgot to video my Jeep dying". Normal people seem to be fine.
 

Zandcwhite

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Your post seems a little aggressive. I am not making any excuses for anything. Newer vehicles run hotter, if that is news to you, then, welcome to the party. Jeeps have marginal cooling systems, if that is news to you that is surprising. Not sure where the excuse part of the post is? I don’t doubt for 1 second that trailrecon put his in limp mode, I don’t need video to believe it. I have seen a JK do it many times. I Have had my JL for 1 month, but when I bought it I knew it would have a marginal cooling system. I spent a lot of time letting my last Jeep cool down when it was about to limp.

I think that is the new normal for mileage sake. EPA is what it is. If you are climbing long grades at altitude on hot days with a load, your Jeep will get hot, it might limp. Other vehicles and going to do it also, but maybe 35s and shaped like a loaf of bread with winch and lights over the grill doesn’t help a Jeep.

I’m outta this one!
If you’ve read the whole thread, there’s a lot of people who are either deniers that he even had the problem, convinced that it isn’t a problem, think he has no right to point out he had an issue that effected his decision to sell because he has a bronco, etc, etc. As he stated in the video, it wasn’t a hot day and he wasn’t driving aggressively. No that isn’t normal or acceptable that the stock cooling system fails to keep up. It wasn’t a 120° day pulling the 15+ mile grade coming out of baker towards Vegas, pulling at max capacity, then it might be understandable. It was 80° with a light trailer, the cooling system should work.
 

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. . .
1 - it wasn't designed to tow, w/ 37" tires, in the mountains. Let's be clear.
2 - the issue is cooling and if you're going to modify the Jeep then for god's sake modify the cooling system to match.
. . .
I completely agree with both of these statements!

Before I lifted and enlarged tires, my EcoDiesel ran mountain grades on the highway like a scalded cat. Temperatures were well under limit and acceleration was nothing short of amazing for vehicle with the aerodynamics of a brick. After the "beast mode" mods, acceleration isn't what it used to be, and temperatures have climbed considerably. I'm personally not blaming Jeep for this, it's become a problem of my own making, but there are other EcoDiesel owners that have not been nearly as aggressive as me with upgrades that nonetheless have run into cooling problems when towing on mountain highways. The cooling problem is clearly the biggest factor in the EcoDiesel towing ratings.

I ran AZ Rt 87 (The Beeline Highway) in a snowstorm between Christmas and New Year where ambient temps were 30 degrees (between 2-3k ft elevation), yet my oil temperatures reached 243 degrees. Had it been a typical summer day with temps at or above 100 degrees . . .
 

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Maybe not the right thread to ask this, but humor me:

For those that have seen firsthand the diesel oil and coolant temperatures getting close to or stepping over the derate threshold while pulling a grade, what gear was the transmission in when the overheating/near-overheating event occured?

Context: I'm a manual transmission guy, but have a JLURD on order. This will be my first automatic transmission Jeep, ever. I know much has been said about how good the new 8-speed transmission is, but I believe the tranny that is behind the diesel is different from the one that is behind the Pentastar and 2.0L turbo, correct?

I wonder, is the trans tuning in the diesel such that it is not downshifting under load as much as the trans tuning behind the gas engines are? Lugging a diesel up a grade, particularly at elevation, will make a bunch of heat really fast. I wonder if a real world workaround would be to just manually downshift out of the overdrives to direct or even maybe 5th gear at the start of a large grade, BEFORE the heat soak sets in.

I'm thinking about this from the perspective of someone who will be "middle of the pack" I suppose when it comes to over the road use in their diesel Jeep. I won't be pulling any trailers with it, but it will have a roof rack and 35" tires on Day 1 of ownership and eventually the 35's will go to 37's and a roof tent will wind up on the rack so it'll be a heavier-than-average cruiser.
 

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All I have heard and that includes the "Youtube Star" TrailRecon is that the transmission is beyond good. It is a great tranny and have not read any bad things about it. No one knows though because TrailRecon forgot to turn on the camera when it failed. Which makes me think well... Take your own take.

The transmission made in Germany is supposed to be really good, no one that I know of has complained.

Only gas engine that uses the transmission is the 392 that I know of.

Going out on a limb here but the 2.0 and 3.6 use the 850 transmission which is rated at 500tq? And the diesel and 392 use the 875 transmission that has 750torque?
 

AZ-Chris

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Transmission temps have never exceeded 235 degrees at any time. I usually find it 20 degrees cooler than the oil when traveling on mountainous highway grades.
 

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All I have heard and that includes the "Youtube Star" TrailRecon is that the transmission is beyond good. It is a great tranny and have not read any bad things about it. No one knows though because TrailRecon forgot to turn on the camera when it failed. Which makes me think well... Take your own take.

The transmission made in Germany is supposed to be really good, no one that I know of has complained.

Only gas engine that uses the transmission is the 392 that I know of.

Going out on a limb here but the 2.0 and 3.6 use the 850 transmission which is rated at 500tq? And the diesel and 392 use the 875 transmission that has 750torque?
Thanks; I guess I was a bit misleading in my questioning. I'm more interested in what the differences are in the trans tuning between the diesel and gasoline options and whether or not the diesel transmission holds overdrive gears longer due to the torque profile of the diesel engine.

As for whether or not TrailRecon actually had a derating issue, I see no reason to doubt that it happened. The issue itself has been documented by others, so we know it does happen. The Casey250 dude on YouTube recorded a video last summer of his and a diesel Gladiator both going into limp mode and restricting speed to 50mph or so while pulling a grade. Neither were pulling a trailer, if i remember, but both vehicles were loaded fairly heavy. Still no excuse for this to happen, but Jeep Wranglers of all engine types still have TONS of "personality traits" that shouldn't exist in this day and age. However, as long as we keep buying half a million of the things a year, Jeep will continue to sell whatever the hell they want to sell in whatever half-baked configurations they choose. Ultimately, all of these little quirks are our fault as consumers; so long as we keep buying them, they see no reason to fix them.
 

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Transmission temps have never exceeded 235 degrees at any time. I usually find it 20 degrees cooler than the oil when traveling on mountainous highway grades.
What gear was your transmission in when your oil and coolant temps got near the derate point? Was the transmission still in 7th or 8th gear when you got to the top of the grade, or had it downshifted to 6th or 5th? If it had downshifted, do you recall if those shifts happened towards the bottom of the grade or towards the top?

I'm not overly concerned with transmission temperatures, but was more wondering if the trans tuning behind the diesel was holding the overdrive gears longer, which would lug the engine when pulling a grade and cause the excessive heat buildup evidenced by the higher coolant and oil temperatures and, eventually, the derate scenarios.

My thinking is that, because of all the available torque, perhaps the Jeep engineers tuned the transmission behind the diesel not to downshift as early as it would if it were behind a gas engine. If that were the case and the driver were to manually downshift to direct or 5th gear BEFORE the coolant and oil temps started spiking, perhaps the higher RPM and reduced engine load would help mitigate the heat buildup.
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