TrailRecon drops the Diesel

[TX_Ovrlnd]

I agree on the delete. I know it will give me more power, fuel economy and engine longevity but the last thing I want to do is dump black smoke all over my friends on the trail or in this beautiful area I'm blessed to live in. Thousands of miles of trails have already been shut down out here and I'm not looking to help add more to that list.

The black smoke comes from improper tuning, they can be tuned much more efficiently.

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[Chainringtattoo]

The black smoke comes from improper tuning, they can be tuned much more efficiently.

Then one day after my warranty has expired and the rig has become a trailer queen I might consider a delete if that is the case.

 

[stumblinhorse]

The black smoke comes from improper tuning, they can be tuned much more efficiently.

Black smoke is unburned fuel. It can be caused by many things, one can be too much fuel being injected than there is air available to combust. This can happen before the turbo spools up enough boost to burn the fuel. At elevation you would see black smoke a lot when you press the go pedal to get going. But your emission system is catching it and spaying def to eliminate that being billowed out into the environment.

 

[Tread4Lo]

Yeah, the Roll Coal crowd pisses me off. I'm in the heart of it in NETX. It's like a right of passage.

As someone else mentioned, hopefully this will limit the orders and I can get mine quicker. Come on MY22, just a few more weeks.

 

[TX_Ovrlnd]

Black smoke is unburned fuel. It can be caused by many things, one can be too much fuel being injected than there is air available to combust. This can happen before the turbo spools up enough boost to burn the fuel. At elevation you would see black smoke a lot when you press the go pedal to get going. But your emission system is catching it and spaying def to eliminate that being billowed out into the environment.

Yes, they intentionally tune it to inject more fuel to cause that, it’s desired by the bro-dozers. You don’t need the def to keep the smoke clean.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Yes, they intentionally tune it to inject more fuel to cause that, it’s desired by the bro-dozers. You don’t need the def to keep the smoke clean.

Not Exactly how it works. All of my diesels are stock. I agree that maybe at sea level you won’t see as much black smoke but at 10k ft my truck blows black smoke until I get spooled. Pulling my 15k pound horse trailer over a mountain pass my truck blows black smoke. My tractor blows black smoke when I am pushing the bucket thru 3’ of snow in my driveway. I have never and will never ”roll coal” with any diesel. But without a DPF and DEF they will smoke sometimes. That cannot be tuned out of them. Otherwise def wouldn’t exist.

 

[BuyHold]

Can we just set the record straight on DEF…. Your diesel motor doesn’t use DEF. It is not some complex thing. It is almost like water, it will freeze at like 10* F. So adding def is not doing anything to the complexity of a diesel motor.

Isn't the problem with DEF not the mechanical components or the chemical content of the fluid itself but all the sensors and electronics that are involved to make the Diesel's exhaust system meet emissions standards? The ECU is programmed to not run the engine basically if any of the sensors are not working.

This in contrast to the 20th century old-school diesels that won hearts over. You know, not the space age ones.

 

[grimmjeeper]

Black smoke is unburned fuel. It can be caused by many things, one can be too much fuel being injected than there is air available to combust. This can happen before the turbo spools up enough boost to burn the fuel. At elevation you would see black smoke a lot when you press the go pedal to get going. But your emission system is catching it and spaying def to eliminate that being billowed out into the environment.

DEF doesn't reduce smoke.

Modern diesels run leaner so they run hotter to reduce particulates. That makes more NOx gasses which are bad. DEF reacts with the NOx gasses in the exhaust stream to beak them down.

Of course, over fuelling creates more particulates (smoke) but also runs cooler, reducing NOx formation.

 

[Chainringtattoo]

Isn't the problem with DEF not the mechanical components or the chemical content of the fluid itself but all the sensors and electronics that are involved to make the Diesel's exhaust system meet emissions standards? The ECU is programmed to not run the engine basically if any of the sensors are not working.

This in contrast to the 20th century old-school diesels that won hearts over. You know, not the space age ones.

Yes. That's my only fear of owning the diesel. It's not the engine, it's all the sensors connected to the emissions stuff.

 

[stumblinhorse]

DEF doesn't reduce smoke.

Modern diesels run leaner so they run hotter to reduce particulates. That makes more NOx gasses which are bad. DEF reacts with the NOx gasses in the exhaust stream to beak them down.

Of course, over fuelling creates more particulates (smoke) but also runs cooler, reducing NOx formation.

yes, I know. Def is used in the process. Never intended to say def reduces smoke.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Isn't the problem with DEF not the mechanical components or the chemical content of the fluid itself but all the sensors and electronics that are involved to make the Diesel's exhaust system meet emissions standards? The ECU is programmed to not run the engine basically if any of the sensors are not working.

This in contrast to the 20th century old-school diesels that won hearts over. You know, not the space age ones.

Yes all the complexity of a modern diesel vehicle is the emissions system, not the diesel motor. Def is part that system. Diesel motors are amazingly simple. And last forever because lower total cycles(RPMs) increase the life of the motor.

 

[gato]

It would have more torque, but most importantly, the torque would be just above idle. [but, you already knew that.] It's the extreme low-end nature of the torque that is appealing to the seat-of-the-pants daily driver. Makes you smile pulling away from every stoplight.

But...I get it, you are down on the Ecodiesel.

I'm not down on diesels or the Ecodiesel per se. It is the application to the Wrangler. Those extra 400 lbs on the nose are not good. That is why Jeep didn't even attempt to offer it on the 2-door.

Most of the "low end torque" characteristics that many ascribe to diesels are available in much more appealing package in turbocharged gasoline engines of similar displacement.

Diesels are good for long distance towing/hauling at highway speeds. If you don't have that mission, sooner or leather all the headaches of DEF, regen, DPF full, overtemps, extra weight, extra cost become a taxing annoyance. I lost count of how many of my friends have regrets after buying a diesel.

 

[rickinAZ]

I'm not down on diesels or the Ecodiesel per se. It is the application to the Wrangler. Those extra 400 lbs on the nose are not good. That is why Jeep didn't even attempt to offer it on the 2-door.

Most of the "low end torque" characteristics that many ascribe to diesels are available in much more appealing package in turbocharged gasoline engines of similar displacement.

Diesels are good for long distance towing/hauling at highway speeds. If you don't have that mission, sooner or leather all the headaches of DEF, regen, DPF full, overtemps, extra weight, extra cost become a taxing annoyance. I lost count of how many of my friends have regrets after buying a diesel.

I can't argue with any of your points as being real, just the extent that owners are challenged by them. Superlatives like "I lost count" tend to overstate the issues. I suspect that less than 5% of forum members are dismayed by their diesels. We're happy that we bought them, you are happy that you avoided them - all is well at both extremes.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I can't argue with any of your points as being real, just the extent that owners are challenged by them. Superlatives like "lost count" tends to overstate the issues. I suspect that less than 5% of forum members are dismayed by their diesels. We're happy that we bought them, you are happy that you avoided them - all is well at both extremes.

All my other vehicles are diesel, so had to buy the 392. That way I have to pay attention at the pump to get the right fuel!

 

[GtX]

All my other vehicles are diesel, so had to buy the 392. That way I have to pay attention at the pump to get the right fuel!

I to like to live dangerously.

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