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Will the 392 Join in the end game?

Outrun

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One other bit of conjecture and guesswork- want to make a fortune? Learn how to retrofit gas powered cars with electric motors. Start a chain of shops that does just that and retire like Bill Gates in 15 years.
Tesla motor swaps are a thing.
 

Rock Hopper

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LOL - as someone who has a normally aspirated V6 all it took was to move from sea level to 7K+ altitude to show how gutless it really is. Turbocharging is well proven and if FCA would have taken a nod from Daimler there would have been a 2T V6 (Mercedes has them and they work like a dream). It is not about bragging rights (at least not for me), it is about having adequate HP/TQ for the conditions and a normally aspirated 3.6L "ain't it".
Hmmmmm. Agree to disagree.
My experience is a little different. I have the normally aspirated V6 in 3 of my Jeeps. I live in Ca (Bay Area) and my primary home is located on the water (right at Sea Level). I also have property in the Sierra and several times a month drive at 6-7,000 feet. I have never experienced any noticeable power drop in any of the Jeep vehicles at elevation.
I own and have operated a LOT of vehicles, many high performance and exotics so I believe I have a good feel for power drop depending on external conditions. I’ve always been impressed on what little impact elevation has on the Jeeps. Perhaps it has to do with the decreased air density at higher elevations reducing resistance on the flat aerodynamics of the Jeep. Personally, in no way would I describe a modern Jeep v6 as “gutless”.

I appreciate driving many other vehicles with turbochargers and superchargers and the power they can deliver at high altitudes. I have nothing against them. That being said, It’s good that we all have options, because I never would have selected a turbo for my Jeeps-obviously others have. If I needed more power the 392 would be my 1st choice.

While I respect your experience, mine is just different.
 
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CarbonSteel

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Hmmmmm. Agree to disagree.
My experience is a little different. I have the normally aspirated V6 in 3 of my Jeeps. I live in Ca (Bay Area) and my primary home is located on the water (right at Sea Level). I also have property in the Sierra and several times a month drive at 6-7,000 feet. I have never experienced any noticeable power drop in any of the Jeep vehicles at elevation.
I own and have operated a LOT of vehicles, many high performance and exotics so I believe I have a good feel for power drop depending on external conditions. I’ve always been impressed on what little impact (if any) elevation has on the Jeeps. Personally, in no way would I describe a modern Jeep v6 as “gutless”.

I appreciate driving many other vehicles with turbochargers and superchargers and the power they can deliver. I have nothing against them. That being said, It’s good that we all have options, because I never would have selected a turbo for my Jeeps-obviously others have. If I needed more power the 392 would be my 1st choice.

While I respect your experience, mine is just different.
No worries; plenty of others who experienced what I have, so my experience is not a one-off or "just me". In the mountains of CO versus me driving on the plains in TX, there is a definitive and quite noticeable difference in how the engine operates and the power it delivers. I had considered re-gearing (again), but I am going for a RIPP or Edlebrock in the near future and that should solve it for less than I can drop a hemi into it.
 

Hearhear

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Losing horsepower at altitude is a scientific fact:


“Generally speaking, an engine loses three percent of its rated power for every 1,000 feet of altitude gained. This means you could lose as much as 20% of your vehicle's horsepower if you drive it from sea level to Big Bear Lake (with its 6,750 elevation).”
 

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2nd 392

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You know, I really have a hard time understanding blind hatred for EV. It's a mode of propulsion. As far as everyday life, it's little different than the difference between diesel and gasoline. You have to find a different place to fill it up, and the upkeep requires some different habits (gotta add DEF, don't have to change glowplugs as often, etc.). But, you get in, sit down, and drive.

Obviously there are edge cases. Offroading, racing, etc. But, even we gotta admit that no one is going to design an entire brand around edge cases.

If I were offered an EV that had similar styling, similar performance, similar range (including time to recharge vs fill-up), at a similar price . . . heck yeah I'd consider a move to electric.

I guess my point is, you can certainly dislike certain aspects of EVs. For me, until they get the time-to-recharge down (and recharging stations widespread), it's a no-go.

But to blindly say, "I like muh pistons" is kinda weird.
The blind hatred is not for the ev’s. It’s for essentially being forced into them by mandate, production percentages, taxpayer funded bribes (incentives), shutting down pipelines and drilling on government land to create shortages. Mpg and emissions regulations designed to push you out of ice vehicles, etc. Were market forces been allowed to prevail electrification would have taken longer but without producing the Blind Hatred for ev’s
 

CarbonSteel

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Losing horsepower at altitude is a scientific fact:


“Generally speaking, an engine loses three percent of its rated power for every 1,000 feet of altitude gained. This means you could lose as much as 20% of your vehicle's horsepower if you drive it from sea level to Big Bear Lake (with its 6,750 elevation).”
Good to know my butt dyno is still in tune. It was a very noticeable change (at least for my JLUR) when I moved.
 

The Last Cowboy

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We have an EcoBoost F150 and an EcoBoost Navigator (neither of which has had a single drivetrain problem with by the way, 2015 and 2020) They are absolutely impressive in the mountains and on long grades. I had the Navigator on all the highway passes in the San Juans and 11,300 ft doesn't phase it at all. Same with the F150 that has been up to 10,000 ft. Passing every wheezing vehicle over in the right lane like fence posts.

My Wrangler has not been to high country yet, so I can't say how my "gutless" 3.6 is above 1,900 ft or so. A small turbo V6, like Ford's 2.7 would be great in a Wrangler and would do everything anyone wants it to do, easily and efficiently. I doubt the 3.0 inline 6 turbo, based on the 2.0 turbo is going to happen. The rumors swirled, then they stopped. A 2.5 inline 5 turbo would be interesting though.
 

guarnibl

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The blind hatred is not for the ev’s. It’s for essentially being forced into them by mandate, production percentages, taxpayer funded bribes (incentives), shutting down pipelines and drilling on government land to create shortages. Mpg and emissions regulations designed to push you out of ice vehicles, etc. Were market forces been allowed to prevail electrification would have taken longer but without producing the Blind Hatred for ev’s
Agreed entirely. It's not needed. EV's will win out anyway, just kicks the adoption rate down the road a bit. But probably not even that long.
 

el_guapo

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Any move by automakers toward electric is a fight for survival, to support their stock price, and in turn their access to capital. Rivian is worth $106 billion despite having effectively no revenue. Tesla is worth a trillion more than that! Ford is worth $80 billion. and GM is worth $91.5 million. The execs pay their bills with their salary but retire on their stock compensation. If their stock prices keep declining, their retirement dreams die as well. Moving to electric is a survival imperative.

I'm not saying the valuations make sense, but that's what the free market is telling big auto execs. Pretty simple: transform or die trying.
 

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Hearhear

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Losing horsepower at altitude is a scientific fact:


“Generally speaking, an engine loses three percent of its rated power for every 1,000 feet of altitude gained. This means you could lose as much as 20% of your vehicle's horsepower if you drive it from sea level to Big Bear Lake (with its 6,750 elevation).”
I should clarify this is for naturally aspirated engines. Turbo engines have much less trouble at altitude because they compensate for the oxygen/horsepower loss.
 

Abramovich

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Since so much tax money is generated at the pumps that cover highway/road maintenance and development, how soon will states begin to charge EVs a surcharge tax to cover the lost tax revenue?
 

Heimkehr

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Since so much tax money is generated at the pumps that cover highway/road maintenance and development, how soon will states begin to charge EVs a surcharge tax to cover the lost tax revenue?
Mileage-based user fees have been considered for implementation for some time by several states. All road users are affected, irrespective of their mode of propulsion, meaning a fair rollout would replace, not supplement, fuel taxes.

Edited to correct spelling.
 
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The Last Cowboy

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Mileage-based user fees have been considered for implementation for some time by several states. All road users are effected, irrespective of their mode of propulsion, meaning a fair rollout would replace, not supplement, fuel taxes.
I'm for user fees on EVs and a lesser fee for PHEVs. But gas and diesel vehicles pay at the pump. And, I doubt that the taxes at the pump would be eliminated in favor of road use fees. Governments have a hard time being weened off an income stream.
 

mwilk012

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Or are we pretending that more than a small amount of people don't want to drive an electric car?

I am certainly not arguing that a small amount of performance cars have a material impact on the environment. But people want electric cars and you could completely remove all incentives at this point for them (and restrictions on ICEs) and the ICE is still going the way of the dodo for the most part because it flat out won't be profitable long term.
The average American cannot afford an electric vehicle.
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