My Testing of the IBS/IBM System

[WranglerMan]

IBS Testing

I have conversed with Jerry @Jebiruph on this thru a few PM’s and then proceeded to let my OCD rule my life and started digging to get some info with some testing of course.

As most are aware the JL like most newer vehicles uses a IBS/IBM ( Intelligent Battery Sensor/Intelligent Battery Management Sensor) that’s mounted to the negative terminal on the main crank battery but in my case since I run a dual Genesis system it’s mounted to the full size aux battery and this is where there is a possible issue.

I reached out to NOCO, Genesis, Odyssey, Cole Hersee, Full River and BOSCH to help me with the questions on potential issues, some gave info and some could not offer much based on various things as what I have is not what’s considered OEM with the Genesis Sys.

Before I explain let’s discuss what the IBS/IBM does, here is some info from there site:

https://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.com/en/solutions/sensors/electronic-battery-sensor/





https://www.mymoparparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-battery-sensor-68289207ac

After having some emails back and fourth with them I was amazed on what this little gadget is responsible for as I thought it just monitored the battery voltage but it takes in a huge amount of data to process to come up with calculations to direct the alternator what to do in maintaining the starting voltage our Jeeps need and so much more.

The IBS looks at the following and apparently has some added benefits when working correctly but I’m not sure how huge a benefit they are.

Battery state of charge
Battery state of health
Batteries ability to hold a charge based on its age and temperature
Battery current & voltage flowing thru the batteries
Parasitic draw (yes this is monitored)
Optimize charging for longer battery life
Increased fuel economy by less load on the system using regenerative charging

The above are just a few things but it’s a key component is the ESS system a lot of us hate but most of us have ESS disabled by some means such as a Tazer, Smart stop/start module, JSCAN etc.. and some even have the aux battery disabled or have removed it completely by going to a single battery or dual Genesis Sys. so with that said most like me would think that the IBS is not needed but oh was I wrong.

Aside from the IBS monitoring all of these things it stores the revolving battery info inside the module and sends this info to the ECM/ECU so it can direct what charging is needed based on all these conditions and what the guidelines/programming limits are set by Jeep and if your IBS fails or the batteries start to fail this is recognized and you are alerted thru different means but all of this info is displayed thru the EVIC display and also hard codes are stored, trust me I have tested this over the last two weeks.

If you were to unplug the IBS the first thing you will see is a IBS error message and a code is stored that can be cleared once it’s corrected but in addition to the IBS error message since no info is being sent to the ECM the JL assumes there is a battery fault and throws 14+ volts and one would think that’s ok since vehicles not long ago threw 14+ volts all the time but as this error whether induced by you as the owner or an actual fault the JL will assume the worst and start disabling power grabbing things to ensure a restart is possible during an ESS operation even if ESS is disabled and the first thing is the ESS system is disabled and those that have seen this know and most times replacing the aux fixes this but not always so the next thing to replace is the IBS and possibly the main crank battery ( Batteries don’t last forever )

The IBS is actually a pretty inexpensive part and even though Bosch did not recommend it they kind of hinted that it should be replaced when batteries are replaced even though it’s a sealed unit that should last thru the vehicles life but we all know how electronics are.

Anyway what started all of my intrigue into this IBS thing was the JL like lots of vehicles uses regenerative charging or smart charging and I won’t go into that as that’s a whole different topic but to give you the short version the JL’s voltage is actually supposed to float or dance on the display and this is how regenerative charging is supposed to work but if you have issues like a bad IBS, failing batteries or possible electrical issues that are pulling voltage down thru parasitic draw or healthy batteries that have not been maintained properly by leaving your JL parked for say weeks at a time without being on a maint charge you will see possible error messages and you are likely to see 14+ volts all the time on the EVIC.

Well after installing my Genesis System all was good and I rarely looked at voltage but as I was going thru my display after doing some JSCAN changes recently I noticed my EVIC voltage was reading 14+ and it normally does if it’s been parked a lot but I do weekly charges using different chargers ( NOCO 10 & Odyssey 20) so I just kept an eye on it and it usually has dropped in the past after driving a short period and then would dance as I slowed down or accelerated but this time it was pegged at 14+ so this is where I reached out to Jerry and all the others I mentioned.

BOSCH advised there really is no easy way to test the IBS unless one goes to the dealer but according to BOSCH codes should be stored if the fault persists but they did give me some insight on what to do to reset the IBS physically that is attached here for those interested.

In my case after resetting the IBS and attaching it back I found issues with mild corrosion inside the IBS connector that was easily corrected and I followed BOSCH’s recommendation for correcting and then I asked them about my dual battery system and without going into great detail the Genesis Sys as designed does have an impact on how the IBS records data sent to the ECM as the Cole Hersee relay opens and closes based on what SOC the main battery is and this for a lack of better terms confuses the IBS and then couple that with the induced measured resistance across the relay and solenoid this to adds to the confusion as the current flow even though is good it’s somewhat restricted enough to affect correct charging patterns stored to be evaluated.

In the end after some additional testing to keep the IBS happy I have found that if I charge each battery separately it keeps things in check and no it’s not a hard process as I disconnect nothing I just charge the main first then swap cables to the aux then charge according to what Genesis suggests and once that’s done I can leave it for weeks but since the IBS periodically wakes up and checks voltages by charging the way I do it keeps the current flow thru the batteries more consistent but this may not apply to those running a single battery but for those running the smaller ESS aux I would suggest you charge separately and this can be accomplished with a simple ESS negative disconnect put on the cable, also when charging don’t put the negative charger clamp directly on the battery post it needs to be put on the cable itself because if it’s put directly on the post it bypasses that IBS as Jerry advised and this adds to the charging confusion of the system.

I considered moving my IBS to the main crank battery but according to BOSCH this still does not address the way the batteries connect/disconnect and does not address the way current flows thru them so i decided to leave as is.

After I addressed the IBS issue of connector corrosion along with taping/sealing some frayed wires I checked all connections with a meter for good continuity and applied some dielectric grease and charged and checked resistance and determined my method of charging and at the very end I reset the IBS and so far my voltages have been good and my charging system seems happy as it’s working as it should like it was when first installed.

I may choose to go back to what Genesis advised on optimal charging as resetting the IBS is a simple process and if I had not looked at the voltage I would have never found the issue with the IBS which possibly could have been the biggest part of the problem but I also want to get the most from my batteries so I will do what’s needed.

Here is some info from BOSCH but Odyssey, NOCO and the others contacted could not or chose not to give much info other than about their specific products, I will say Odyssey and Full River along with BOSCH were the most helpful with things to look for in regard to proper charging.

All the ppl I chatted with all agree on one thing and that was proper battery upkeep by a properly sized charger for the batteries installed, nothing wrong with small battery maintainers as long as they are used after doing a big boy charge because NOCO, Odyssey and Full River all advised if a charger is undersized it’s just as damaging as one that oversized, it’s not super critical for non AGM batteries but that does not apply here.

I hope to get at least 5 years from my Full River 750’s and once they are done I will likely replace with similar and also will replace the IBS module as it’s not that much more to add in during a battery swap.

Anyway I’m quite sure I have gone on long enough as some of you are tired of my rambling but battery management is not as simple as it used to be not long ago and one almost has to have a engineering degree to diagnose issues with batteries.

Below is a pic of my setup and it likely is different than most of you but the IBS in question connected to the terminal should be the same

The blue arrow is the IBS data cable and this connector should be cleaned and then a lite coating of dielectric grease applied, the red arrow goes to the actual IBS module and the interior should be checked for dirt and corrosion ( I cleaned mine with contact cleaner ) the yellow arrow is where the negative charger cable should be attached and the green X should never be used as a charger point as it bypasses the IBS

Also included are some voltage checks I did and info from BOSCH

Voltage Checks

*Cole Hersee solenoid C= Closed O=Open*

** First two readings are batteries 1/2**
** Reset IBS after doing full charge of both batteries**

Day #1
12.75/12.75/12.7 EVIC *C( 30 mins after charge)
12.7 EVIC (after 35 min drive)
12.7 EVIC (after parked 12 hrs ** no meter to check batts)
12.71/12.71/12.7 EVIC *C(after 35 min drive)

Day #2
12.63/12.63/13.4 EVIC *C (parked 9 hrs)
13.2/13.4 EVIC (after 35 min drive)
14.0 EVIC (parked 12 hrs **no meter to check batts)
12.83/12.83/13.0 EVIC *C (after 45 min drive)

Day #3
12.59/12.59/14.0 *C (parked 9 hrs)
13.2 EVIC (after 40 min drive)
14.0 EVIC (parked 12 hrs **no meter to check batts)
12.81/12.81/13.1 EVIC *C (after 40 min drive)

Day #4
12.67/12.67/14.0 *O (parked 9 hrs)
13.1 EVIC (after 40 min drive)
14.0 EVIC (parked 12 hrs **no meter to check batts)
12.78/12.78/13.3 *c (after 40 min drive)

Day #5
12.66/12.68/13.8 *O (parked 9 hrs)
13.2 EVIC ( after 40 min drive)
14.0 EVIC (parked 12 hrs **no meter to check batts)
12.80/12.80/13..2 *C (after 45 min drive)

24hr Checks

Day #1
12.78/12.78/12.7 EVIC *C (30 mins after charge)
12.75/12.76/12.8 EVIC (after doing some errands)
12.63/12.63 *C (12 hrs parked)
12.63/12.68/13.9 EVIC *O (24 hrs parked)

Day #2
12.65/12.70/13.9 EVIC *O (24 hrs parked)
12.67/12.71/13.4 EVIC (after doing some errands)
12.64/12.71 *O (12 hrs parked)

Day #3
12.61/12.70/13.8 EVIC *O (24 hrs parked)
12.78/12.79/13.4 EVIC (after doing some errands)
12.60/12.60 *C (12 hrs parked)

Final check (One week of mixed driving and parked and no charge other than at beginning of week)

Day #1
12.70/12.70/12.8 EVIC (60 mins after charge)
12.82/12.83/13.2 (after 45 min drive)

Day #2
12.68/12.70/13.7 EVIC
12.69/12.70/13.2 EVIC (after 45 min drive)

Day #3
12.65/12.68/14.1 (parked most of day with a few short errands)

Day #4
12.59/12.68/14.2 EVIC (parked 24 hrs)

Day #5
12.57/12.66/14.2 EVIC (parked 24 hrs)

After finishing tests I chatted with Jerry on my findings and the term regenerative charging came from several I chatted with and I have also heard smart charging, we know the alternator is always turning 100% when the Jeep in running but it does not always put out 14+ as this is determined by the calculations the IBS does and the state of the batteries, but the regenerative/smart charging term from my understanding comes from the fact that the alternator ramps up to 100% during coasting and or a breaking event as this can be observed thru the EVIC display as the voltage ramps up to over 14+ volts and once stopped drops back down and in my searching and reading this helps with more HP, improved fuel economy by putting less drag on the motor but i may be misunderstanding this.

I think alot are confused on the Genesis system including me but Im not sure if moving the IBS to the main crank battery would yield measurable results, Jerry believes it would as due to the way the batteries are separated during startup, it would be a easy swap by just swapping the negative cable around and i will likely try that next , doing this would not effect the operation of the smart relay but since once started and the main crank battery sees above 13.2 for a few minutes the batteries connect if they were not already connected so who knows but my next test will be to move the IBS to the main crank battery

So far my system voltages seem normal and are doing the dance so to speak and my resting voltages even after sitting more than 24 hrs does not drop below 12.6 on either battery so maybe i need to do the swap and do do more voltage testing to see what it yields but for now since repairing my IBS all things have returned to normal.

Im quite sure I have rambled on enough and now with me getting into power detailing which is another rabbit hole it may be awhile before I revisit this.

Sponsored

 

[JasonInDLH]

IBS Testing

I have conversed with Jerry @Jebiruph on this thru a few PM’s and then proceeded to let my OCD rule my life and started digging to get some info with some testing of course.

As most are aware the JL like most newer vehicles uses a IBS/IBM ( Intelligent Battery Sensor/Intelligent Battery Management Sensor) that’s mounted to the negative terminal on the main crank battery but in my case since I run a dual Genesis system it’s mounted to the full size aux battery and this is where there is a possible issue.

I reached out to NOCO, Genesis, Odyssey, Cole Hersee, Full River and BOSCH to help me with the questions on potential issues, some gave info and some could not offer much based on various things as what I have is not what’s considered OEM with the Genesis Sys.

Before I explain let’s discuss what the IBS/IBM does, here is some info from there site:

https://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.com/en/solutions/sensors/electronic-battery-sensor/





https://www.mymoparparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-battery-sensor-68289207ac

After having some emails back and fourth with them I was amazed on what this little gadget is responsible for as I thought it just monitored the battery voltage but it takes in a huge amount of data to process to come up with calculations to direct the alternator what to do in maintaining the starting voltage our Jeeps need and so much more.

The IBS looks at the following and apparently has some added benefits when working correctly but I’m not sure how huge a benefit they are.

Battery state of charge
Battery state of health
Batteries ability to hold a charge based on its age and temperature
Battery current & voltage flowing thru the batteries
Parasitic draw (yes this is monitored)
Optimize charging for longer battery life
Increased fuel economy by less load on the system using regenerative charging

The above are just a few things but it’s a key component is the ESS system a lot of us hate but most of us have ESS disabled by some means such as a Tazer, Smart stop/start module, JSCAN etc.. and some even have the aux battery disabled or have removed it completely by going to a single battery or dual Genesis Sys. so with that said most like me would think that the IBS is not needed but oh was I wrong.

Aside from the IBS monitoring all of these things it stores the revolving battery info inside the module and sends this info to the ECM/ECU so it can direct what charging is needed based on all these conditions and what the guidelines/programming limits are set by Jeep and if your IBS fails or the batteries start to fail this is recognized and you are alerted thru different means but all of this info is displayed thru the EVIC display and also hard codes are stored, trust me I have tested this over the last two weeks.

If you were to unplug the IBS the first thing you will see is a IBS error message and a code is stored that can be cleared once it’s corrected but in addition to the IBS error message since no info is being sent to the ECM the JL assumes there is a battery fault and throws 14+ volts and one would think that’s ok since vehicles not long ago threw 14+ volts all the time but as this error whether induced by you as the owner or an actual fault the JL will assume the worst and start disabling power grabbing things to ensure a restart is possible during an ESS operation even if ESS is disabled and the first thing is the ESS system is disabled and those that have seen this know and most times replacing the aux fixes this but not always so the next thing to replace is the IBS and possibly the main crank battery ( Batteries don’t last forever )

The IBS is actually a pretty inexpensive part and even though Bosch did not recommend it they kind of hinted that it should be replaced when batteries are replaced even though it’s a sealed unit that should last thru the vehicles life but we all know how electronics are.

Anyway what started all of my intrigue into this IBS thing was the JL like lots of vehicles uses regenerative charging or smart charging and I won’t go into that as that’s a whole different topic but to give you the short version the JL’s voltage is actually supposed to float or dance on the display and this is how regenerative charging is supposed to work but if you have issues like a bad IBS, failing batteries or possible electrical issues that are pulling voltage down thru parasitic draw or healthy batteries that have not been maintained properly by leaving your JL parked for say weeks at a time without being on a maint charge you will see possible error messages and you are likely to see 14+ volts all the time on the EVIC.

Well after installing my Genesis System all was good and I rarely looked at voltage but as I was going thru my display after doing some JSCAN changes recently I noticed my EVIC voltage was reading 14+ and it normally does if it’s been parked a lot but I do weekly charges using different chargers ( NOCO 10 & Odyssey 20) so I just kept an eye on it and it usually has dropped in the past after driving a short period and then would dance as I slowed down or accelerated but this time it was pegged at 14+ so this is where I reached out to Jerry and all the others I mentioned.

BOSCH advised there really is no easy way to test the IBS unless one goes to the dealer but according to BOSCH codes should be stored if the fault persists but they did give me some insight on what to do to reset the IBS physically that is attached here for those interested.

In my case after resetting the IBS and attaching it back I found issues with mild corrosion inside the IBS connector that was easily corrected and I followed BOSCH’s recommendation for correcting and then I asked them about my dual battery system and without going into great detail the Genesis Sys as designed does have an impact on how the IBS records data sent to the ECM as the Cole Hersee relay opens and closes based on what SOC the main battery is and this for a lack of better terms confuses the IBS and then couple that with the induced measured resistance across the relay and solenoid this to adds to the confusion as the current flow even though is good it’s somewhat restricted enough to affect correct charging patterns stored to be evaluated.

In the end after some additional testing to keep the IBS happy I have found that if I charge each battery separately it keeps things in check and no it’s not a hard process as I disconnect nothing I just charge the main first then swap cables to the aux then charge according to what Genesis suggests and once that’s done I can leave it for weeks but since the IBS periodically wakes up and checks voltages by charging the way I do it keeps the current flow thru the batteries more consistent but this may not apply to those running a single battery but for those running the smaller ESS aux I would suggest you charge separately and this can be accomplished with a simple ESS negative disconnect put on the cable, also when charging don’t put the negative charger clamp directly on the battery post it needs to be put on the cable itself because if it’s put directly on the post it bypasses that IBS as Jerry advised and this adds to the charging confusion of the system.

I considered moving my IBS to the main crank battery but according to BOSCH this still does not address the way the batteries connect/disconnect and does not address the way current flows thru them so i decided to leave as is.

After I addressed the IBS issue of connector corrosion along with taping/sealing some frayed wires I checked all connections with a meter for good continuity and applied some dielectric grease and charged and checked resistance and determined my method of charging and at the very end I reset the IBS and so far my voltages have been good and my charging system seems happy as it’s working as it should like it was when first installed.

I may choose to go back to what Genesis advised on optimal charging as resetting the IBS is a simple process and if I had not looked at the voltage I would have never found the issue with the IBS which possibly could have been the biggest part of the problem but I also want to get the most from my batteries so I will do what’s needed.

Here is some info from BOSCH but Odyssey, NOCO and the others contacted could not or chose not to give much info other than about their specific products, I will say Odyssey and Full River along with BOSCH were the most helpful with things to look for in regard to proper charging.

All the ppl I chatted with all agree on one thing and that was proper battery upkeep by a properly sized charger for the batteries installed, nothing wrong with small battery maintainers as long as they are used after doing a big boy charge because NOCO, Odyssey and Full River all advised if a charger is undersized it’s just as damaging as one that oversized, it’s not super critical for non AGM batteries but that does not apply here.

I hope to get at least 5 years from my Full River 750’s and once they are done I will likely replace with similar and also will replace the IBS module as it’s not that much more to add in during a battery swap.

Anyway I’m quite sure I have gone on long enough as some of you are tired of my rambling but battery management is not as simple as it used to be not long ago and one almost has to have a engineering degree to diagnose issues with batteries.

Below is a pic of my setup and it likely is different than most of you but the IBS in question connected to the terminal should be the same

The blue arrow is the IBS data cable and this connector should be cleaned and then a lite coating of dielectric grease applied, the red arrow goes to the actual IBS module and the interior should be checked for dirt and corrosion ( I cleaned mine with contact cleaner ) the yellow arrow is where the negative charger cable should be attached and the green X should never be used as a charger point as it bypasses the IBS

Also included are some voltage checks I did and info from BOSCH

Voltage Checks

*Cole Hersee solenoid C= Closed O=Open*

** First two readings are batteries 1/2**
** Reset IBS after doing full charge of both batteries**

Day #1
12.75/12.75/12.7 EVIC *C( 30 mins after charge)
12.7 EVIC (after 35 min drive)
12.7 EVIC (after parked 12 hrs ** no meter to check batts)
12.71/12.71/12.7 EVIC *C(after 35 min drive)

Day #2
12.63/12.63/13.4 EVIC *C (parked 9 hrs)
13.2/13.4 EVIC (after 35 min drive)
14.0 EVIC (parked 12 hrs **no meter to check batts)
12.83/12.83/13.0 EVIC *C (after 45 min drive)

Day #3
12.59/12.59/14.0 *C (parked 9 hrs)
13.2 EVIC (after 40 min drive)
14.0 EVIC (parked 12 hrs **no meter to check batts)
12.81/12.81/13.1 EVIC *C (after 40 min drive)

Day #4
12.67/12.67/14.0 *O (parked 9 hrs)
13.1 EVIC (after 40 min drive)
14.0 EVIC (parked 12 hrs **no meter to check batts)
12.78/12.78/13.3 *c (after 40 min drive)

Day #5
12.66/12.68/13.8 *O (parked 9 hrs)
13.2 EVIC ( after 40 min drive)
14.0 EVIC (parked 12 hrs **no meter to check batts)
12.80/12.80/13..2 *C (after 45 min drive)

24hr Checks

Day #1
12.78/12.78/12.7 EVIC *C (30 mins after charge)
12.75/12.76/12.8 EVIC (after doing some errands)
12.63/12.63 *C (12 hrs parked)
12.63/12.68/13.9 EVIC *O (24 hrs parked)

Day #2
12.65/12.70/13.9 EVIC *O (24 hrs parked)
12.67/12.71/13.4 EVIC (after doing some errands)
12.64/12.71 *O (12 hrs parked)

Day #3
12.61/12.70/13.8 EVIC *O (24 hrs parked)
12.78/12.79/13.4 EVIC (after doing some errands)
12.60/12.60 *C (12 hrs parked)

Final check (One week of mixed driving and parked and no charge other than at beginning of week)

Day #1
12.70/12.70/12.8 EVIC (60 mins after charge)
12.82/12.83/13.2 (after 45 min drive)

Day #2
12.68/12.70/13.7 EVIC
12.69/12.70/13.2 EVIC (after 45 min drive)

Day #3
12.65/12.68/14.1 (parked most of day with a few short errands)

Day #4
12.59/12.68/14.2 EVIC (parked 24 hrs)

Day #5
12.57/12.66/14.2 EVIC (parked 24 hrs)

After finishing tests I chatted with Jerry on my findings and the term regenerative charging came from several I chatted with and I have also heard smart charging, we know the alternator is always turning 100% when the Jeep in running but it does not always put out 14+ as this is determined by the calculations the IBS does and the state of the batteries, but the regenerative/smart charging term from my understanding comes from the fact that the alternator ramps up to 100% during coasting and or a breaking event as this can be observed thru the EVIC display as the voltage ramps up to over 14+ volts and once stopped drops back down and in my searching and reading this helps with more HP, improved fuel economy by putting less drag on the motor but i may be misunderstanding this.

I think alot are confused on the Genesis system including me but Im not sure if moving the IBS to the main crank battery would yield measurable results, Jerry believes it would as due to the way the batteries are separated during startup, it would be a easy swap by just swapping the negative cable around and i will likely try that next , doing this would not effect the operation of the smart relay but since once started and the main crank battery sees above 13.2 for a few minutes the batteries connect if they were not already connected so who knows but my next test will be to move the IBS to the main crank battery

So far my system voltages seem normal and are doing the dance so to speak and my resting voltages even after sitting more than 24 hrs does not drop below 12.6 on either battery so maybe i need to do the swap and do do more voltage testing to see what it yields but for now since repairing my IBS all things have returned to normal.

Im quite sure I have rambled on enough and now with me getting into power detailing which is another rabbit hole it may be awhile before I revisit this.

That’s quite a write up. I’ll have to come back when I have some more time on my hands to read what you wrote.

 

[WranglerMan]

That’s quite a write up. I’ll have to come back when I have some more time on my hands to read what you wrote.

My OCD rules my life… I’m afraid of what’s going to happen when I dive into power detailing and 1, 2 and 3 step corrections

 

[WranglerMan]

Here’s a small update for those that remotely care.

As some may know I run a Genesis dual battery system and all has been fine and my JL has loved the additional power and I have never been stranded due to a dead battery and I also have ESS disabled with a Smart Stop/Start module and made some programing changes with JSCAN which I truly love for the price.

Anyway about a month or so back I noticed I was getting a Battery Protection Mode msg in the EVIC on the ESS EVIC screen and the only reason I noticed it was lots of time I wipe the dash down while the JL is running near the Uconnect screen and have activated ESS by accident so when I stop ESS kicks in.

So thinking I was starting to have possible issues my OCD went into high gear and let the testing begin and I also conversed with Jerry and his thoughts are and have been the the IBS needs to be connected to the main crank battery to work correctly and the way the Genesis system is setup it stays connected to the factory negative to make installation easier but several have moved there IBS to the main crank and some have even disconnected it but I’m sure those that have disconnected it have the TSB applied and me with my 2018 don’t so maybe that’s why they don't get an error msg like I do when disconnecting.

So as I let my OCD rule my life and just love testing I first fully charged both batteries with my Odyssey 20 amp 6 stg charger then I disconnected both and ran a repair mode with my NOCO 10 and proceeded to have them load tested and both passed.

So thinking all was good I went on my merry way but less than a week later I would still get the Battery Protect Mode on occasion so then I started playing around with the IBS by disconnecting it and trying to clear any errors but I kept getting a ESS error msg on startup and codes were being stored so then I started looking into JSCAN in the IBS section and saw where you could tell the JL that the IBS was not present, I had saw this option before and played with It about a year ago but JSCAN has had several updates since the so I thought I would try it again.

So with both batteries fully charged and both IBS settings deactivated I cleared any stored codes and went on down the road, now here’s the interesting part… I know the IBS looks at and analyzes lots of aspects of the battery and sends info to the ECU to dictate how the smart charging system works with the voltage doing it up/down voltage dependent on the needs of the battery but with my IBS deactivated per JSCAN my EVIC displayed voltage still performs the same as when I first got my JL with the voltage displaying low after a full charge and running high after being parked for several days but slowly drop during a long drive and so far and it’s only been about two weeks but I’m not getting the battery protection mode msg and ESS during some testing works fine so now I’m honestly not sure how the IBS influences the charge process.

So currently my IBS is still connected to the aux battery and my charge system seems to be working fine and no error msgs but if you see a red JL broke down near Houston please stop and give this idiot a ride….

My next step after this is to physically move the IBS to the main battery, some would likely ask why not just move it but I love testing and If the JL can operate normally with the IBS out of the picture that’s a plus to me.

 

[Jebiruph]

Here's my take on the IBS. Smart charging that adjusts the output of the alternator based on the system load existed before the IBS was added to the system, so smart charging will work without the IBS.

The IBS is needed for auto stop/start because you have to know the battery is good before you shut down the car down in traffic. The only impact the IBS will have on charging is that by reporting an undercharged battery, it allows the system to increase the charging level above what the current system load calls for, to facilitate charging the battery quicker.

 

[WranglerMan]

Jerry, since I could care less about ESS since I have it disabled using a Smart Stop/Start module I will leave things the way they are for now and check voltages but so far overnight the voltages on both batteries meter at 12.6-12.7 and upon startup the EVIC displays in the range of 13.6-14.1 but after driving for 20-30 mins it starts to throttle back and of course slowing or braking while driving the voltage ramps up and drops back once I accelerate or come to a stop which is normal by smart charging design and if I continue to drive for say a few hours by the time I park it displays right at 13+.

Modern technology is a wonderful thing but it seems building a better mousetrap or reinventing the wheel sometimes is a terrible idea, things were less complicated when all one had was one battery and the alternator with a starter and starter solenoid mounted on the firewall.

 

[Bob Burd]

Not trying to be a smartass, but you need to learn to add periods and make normal sentences. You have paragraph-long sentences that are hard to read. It feels exhausting to try and follow them.

 

[WranglerMan]

Not trying to be a smartass, but you need to learn to add periods and make normal sentences. You have paragraph-long sentences that are hard to read. It feels exhausting to try and follow them.

Bob,

I have been told this before and I’ve tried with mixed results, the thoughts in my OCD brain get running a million miles per hour and I just bang on the keys and since I spent weeks or longer doing the testing it all makes sense to me but those interested suffer due to me rambling on.

No offense taken in pointing this out Sir and I will concentrate more on correcting this.

Correct me but I believe a normal sentence is like twenty words and I believe over the years that amount has dwindled from like seventy or so words.

 

[Bob Burd]

I really appreciate the learning and expertise you have to offer. But it comes off as hurried and a bit cluttered when trying to read. Maybe try counting the number of conjunctions (and, but, or) you're using to connect phrases and pause after the second or third to use a period. Thanks for all you help over the years.

 

[moodywizard]

So, after reading these posts I still see no "disadvantage" if leaving the IBS disconnected.

Its interesting you deactivated it through JSCAN and had varying voltages. I removed the IBS wire two years ago and have 14+V constant, never fluctuates as the jeep gods intended

 

[VKSheridan]

@WranglerMan, your OCD is triggering my OCD and we all know what that means so be gentle, I’m wearing slippers as I type this…..

@Bob Burd - My paragraphs have more periods than a convent so you should be okay.

At the risk of over-simplifying my interpretation of the ESS, please correct me accordingly. The following is my understanding, not a statement of fact:

The IBS for simple definition is a shunt that measures voltage on each terminal end, bi-directional voltage drop between ends, and bidirectional amperage flow.

The IBM is essentially a relay controlled by the voltage sensed through the IBS which allows either a parallel or isolated connection of the Main and Auxiliary batteries under specific conditions. If isolated, cranking is exclusive to the Main battery leg of the relay and control voltage is exclusive to the Auxiliary battery leg of the relay. When the relay is closed, the batteries (hence the crank and control circuits) are connected in parallel.

The IBM disconnects the Auxiliary Battery when cranking to ensure there is sufficient control voltage for ignition, crank sensors, etc. if the voltage drop across the IBS determines that prudent. With exception to that condition, the Auxiliary and Main batteries are connected parallel.

If the Auxiliary battery voltage is determined too low to adequately provide control voltage to the controllers, the IBM will not isolate the Auxiliary battery and instead, leave it in circuit (parallel) and attempt to let the battery combination crank and control.

If the Main battery is determined too low to adequately crank the engine, the Auxiliary battery will remain isolated to prevent attempted cranking (and potential damage) off the smaller Auxiliary battery. Under this condition, users have reported “Christmas tree” lighting of their dash and a myriad of other “trace voltage” events.

For charging, neither the IBS or the IBM have any influence. The alternator provides regulated voltage and amperage to the circuit. If the IBM relay is not in a failed state (isolating crank and control circuits), the regulator provides voltage and flow to both batteries. The battery with the least resistance (highest discharge) will get the bias of flow until resistance equalizes and then flow (amperage) goes to both batteries accordingly.

Since the Auxiliary battery has a lower capacity, the resistance to flow will reach a point that it will no longer accept flow so all amperage from the alternator will be consumed by the Main battery provided its resistance is such that the alternator can overcome. As flow decreases, potential (voltage) increases and the regulator will lessen or regulate the voltage.

As loads are introduced to the circuit (i.e. turn on the KC’s), resistance decreases through the loads which causes flow. The increase in flow leaving the batteries triggers the regulator to increase to regulated voltage to accommodate the demand for flow. A properly operating alternator and regulator will not output greater than it’s rated voltage or amperage.

For those using the Genesis system, regardless of battery age or OEM, the rules of Ohm’s Law still apply. Accordingly, the battery with the lowest resistance will get the most amperage until it’s resistance is the same as it’s clone battery. From that point forward, both batteries will charge at the same rate if resistance increases at the same rate. If one battery is weak and its resistance increases slower, a greater percentage of amperage will go to that battery as voltage will always equalize.

The entire premise given assumes we have not added resistance into the circuit via bad cables, corroded connections or arced/carboned relay contacts.

Sorry so long, wanted to give full interpretation so we could compare our understandings.

 

[WranglerMan]

@VKSheridan in my case since the batteries are identical I’m not sure resistance comes into play but I do believe that solenoid opening and closing really confuses the IBS and affects it’s ability to accurately determine what voltage needs to be applied.

Since using JSCAN to basically tell the JL that their is no IBS present my charging system seems to be more consistent.

I have done daily voltage checks for the past few weeks since disabling it and my resting voltage after the top charge has dropped off after driving has been in the 12.8-12.9 but if I check it say an hour or two after it’s done in the 12.7 range and this is due to the power the solenoid uses before disconnecting at 12.7 +/-.1

I could have easily moved the IBS to the main crank negative for testing but I wanted to see what disabling the IBS did thru JSCAN first and so far it’s been working well but then I have ESS disabled using my SSS module but when testing ESS it works as designed and my voltage displayed varies from 12.9-14+ depending on how long it’s been drive or parked.

I tried physically unplugging the IBS and it generates a EVIC error msg and generates a few codes so I’m only guessing and say the ECM is programmed to physically look to see it’s connected but I don’t get any errors with it turned off in JSCAN which is kinda weird so not sure what that’s all about.

The last thing you mentioned on amperage I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on that other than to say that the crank battery may be the needy one and get the most attention since it’s the one being pulled on the most and once connected and the solenoid closes the charge equalizes but it’s for sure taking more use than the aux, I wish there was an easy way to dictate which one was the crank battery without physically swapping them.

 

[VKSheridan]

@WranglerMan - Here’s an excerpt from the GENESIS FAQ that might shed light on your findings:

Will the JL Battery Gauges still read accurately?
There is nothing in this kit that affects any electronics or sensors on the Jeep. However, since the IBS is connected to the factory ground, the voltage displayed on the dash would be that of the accessory battery rather than the cranking battery.

I think you’re getting codes when disconnecting the IBS for a couple of reasons, the first being an open sensed instead of voltage. The second reason when a voltage increase is sensed by the controllers (as the alternator delivers output) but the same increase is not detected at the IBS. With JSCAN, if I remember right, you’re telling the EVIC everything’s cool, let the party continue.

Because IBM needs to know the Auxiliary battery status, the IBS needs to be in the circuit (even with dual batteries). The controllers are relying on an input from the IBS as part of their logic to ensure they can provide proper command voltage to the ignition, fuel injectors, etc.

For charging, resistance absolutely comes into play. For an alternator, resistance is what dictates flow and flow is what fills batteries. Voltage is merely potential (pressure). Ohm’s Law is unavoidable with that.

I love this stuff so I’m going to try to make this all make sense, feedback welcomed:

Think about a flat tire and an air compressor that you have regulated to cut off at 30 PSI.

To fill the tire we need air. We turn on our air compressor and air flows into the tire. Because the air is moving practically unimpeded, the pressure is zero. As the air runs out of empty space inside the tire, the pressure rises until the compressor kicks off at 30 PSI. Absent a leak, the volume of air within the tire will remain unchanged as well the pressure. Change the temperature or weight (load) to the tire and we know the pressure will either increase or decrease but since we didn’t add air, the volume we originally put in is the same.

No duh stuff right? Why is that idiot VK babbling about tires?

Keep that concept in mind and let’s go buy a Harbor Freight “battery compressor“!

The label on the box reads “Maximum Pressure - 15 PSI” which means you’ll explode anything not rated to that pressure and will never fill anything higher than that pressure. Just like your air compressor, although a bit low on the pressure.

The label has a second rating, “Maximum delivery - 100 CFM”. It has a warning label that says, “Running the compressor at 100 CFM for extended periods will overheat the battery compressor”. Just like your air compressor.

Before filling your first battery, you want to test this thing so you connect a spray nozzle to the hose, plug it in and turn it on. The gauges instantly go to 15 PSI, 0 CFM. You squeeze the spray nozzle trigger and watch the pressure gauge fall to almost zero and the flow gauge read 100 CFM. You put your thumb over the spray nozzle tip and as it starts sealing off the flow, the pressure gauge reading increases while the flow gauge decreases. With your thumb firmly on the spray nozzle tip with no leaks, the gauges read, “15 PSI, .002 CFM”. Knowing your “thumb seal” isn’t perfect, you are satisfied your new battery compressor is working perfectly.

Still with me? Awesome!

Being OCD you’re confident but not 100% so before connecting this thing to your Jeep, you want to test it one more time. You dig up an auxiliary battery you pulled from your Jeep during an ESS rage.

With your the fancy “pocket battery pressure gauge” that came with your kit, you see the battery is low at 11.1 PSI and it’s rating says 12.6. Hmmmm, if it didn’t have a stiff sidewall, you’re certain it’d be flat on one side. Quick math says this puppy only has 40% capacity left so you have 60% of battery space to fill!

You connect the battery compressor. The gauge reads the same as your pocket pressure gauge did, 11.1 PSI. The flow gauge is reading 0 CFM but that’s because we haven’t turned the battery compressor on yet. You throw the switch. The CFM increases to about 50 and the pressure gauge reads 11.8 PSI. As the battery fills, the CFM starts getting less and less. Interestingly, when the CFM hits .001, the pressure is precisely 12.6 PSI.

How in the hell did that happen? This cheap Harbor Freight battery compressor has no connection to an IBS, IBM or even an ICBM.

Reluctantly, you call VK and because he is an idiot, he babbles about Michelin, Nitto or Goodyear instead of connecting you with battery or battery compressor experts. After what seemed to be eternity listening to VK ramble while he was eating Doritos, here’s how you got things to shake out:

There are two tires in your garage. A tiny donut tire for your wife’s car and a mongo 40” off-road tire. Both recommend 30 PSI.

VK told you to set your air compressor regulator to 30 PSI. The compressor turns on and in mere seconds, the CFM gauges goes to zero with the donut tire while the 40” takes a spell longer. You noticed on both tires, as the pressure increased, the CFM started decreasing against the resistance to flow until both tires hit 30 PSI and the although the compressor was running, as long as both held 30 PSI, there was no flow of air because of the regulator.

VK told you to let all the air out of the tires again. He had you make an “octopus“ which allows you to fill eight tires at once. Nothing fancy, just 8 hoses tied to a single compressor line. He had you connect one hose to the emptied donut tire, one to the emptied 40”, one to your kid’s go cart, one to your daughters bike and the rest to whatever was in the driveway that had 30 PSI as the recommended pressure. (You read all the sidewalls to be safe).

Before you turn on the compressor, what happened?

The tires that were full lost some volume and pressure. They dumped air into the empty 40“ and the donut tire but interestingly, all of the tires only dropped few PSI and EVERY tire was the exact same PSI. In fact, your daughters bicycle tire wasn’t flat and was probably rideable.

VK asked what will happen when we turn on the air compressor. Will the 40” fill first, will the donut tire fill first or will we need to buy your daughter a new tire for her bicycle?

You know the answer but you also know that VK is a troll so it has to be a rigged question.

You know you know the answer but dammit, it’s a trap so you fake like you didn’t hear the question. Since VK can’t shut up, he eventually gives the answer.

He says, “Every tire will increase in pressure the same but the CFM required to achieve that pressure will be less for the smaller capacity donut, go cart and bicycle tire than the 40” mongo tire. If we had a CFM gauge on each leg of the octopus, the sum of all legs would equal the total compressor CFM output but the percentage of air flow in each leg would be proportional to the percentage of unused capacity of the tire”.

You said, “Duh! Tell me something I don’t know!” before you realize you’re asking an idiot to tell you something you don’t know…..

VK replied, “Go back to the battery compressor story and change some words.”
Change battery compressor to “alternator”, change PSI to “voltage” and change CFM to “amperage”.

Everything you understand with how your air compressor fills tires is relatively transferable to how your alternator fills (charges) batteries.

High capacity batteries are akin to your mongo 40” tire. A lower capacity battery would be akin to the auxiliary battery. Both have the same voltage, and similar resistance at 75% charge but the little one will take less time to fill (achieve 100% charge) if charged isolated.

If connected in parallel, both will equalize in voltage but flow (amperage) will be higher to the big battery than the little battery so that both can progress to 76% charge, 77% charge, 78% charge, etc. until 100% charge is achieved.

Although there’s more going on than I’m disclosing, it basically comes down to Ohm’s Law will not allow otherwise.

Back to our tires - At 90% full, which tire will fill the most balloons, the 40“ or the donut? (Rhetorical, you know the answer)

The premise that Genesis is using is similar:

“Let’s pitch the donut, add another 40” so we can fill more balloons and have a bigger party! While we’re at it, let’s install circuit isolators because we know we can fill a single 40” faster than a pair at the same time. In fact, let’s use a relay to isolate the two big boys so that if Wagonman uses his light bar (errr, blow gun) with the compressor off, he‘ll only draw from one tire. We’ll keep the other one offline so he’ll be able to honk his very demanding air horn. Of course, if that crazy guy taps into the offline one as well, we‘ll octopus the tires in parallel and hope between the two, there’s enough CFM to fire off the air horn!”

Fun fact: Absent being in a vacuum, a tire is never empty. At sea level, it will have approximately 14.7 p.s.i. or 1 Bar in it.

Bonus Fun fact: The difference between 100% charged and totally dead lead acid battery is just 2.2 volts. (Fully charged = 12.7 volts, dead = 10.5 volts or lower)

 

[Red Willy]

 

[VKSheridan]

@Red Willy - Well done sir, we’ll done!

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