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No power after rest stop. Couldn't get to highway speed on onramp.

Punknhed

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Hummm....unless your dad regularly broke the law or applied for a hard to get special exemption permit, I don't think so. The MCGVW of a semi (truck + load) is 80,000lbs, unless it is an EV truck which gets some allowance to go slightly above 80,000lbs.
Didnt break the law. Had to cross the scales regularly. Either way bottom line dont pull out in front of a damn semi.
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BDinTX

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I read that entire thread on the JT wrangler forum and it makes me wonder if some of the issues aren't from dealers using the wrong type of engine oil. Even on here we see they frequently use Rotella which isn't the right spec for these engines.

Another think I've been wondering about after watching this video was whether a turbo blanket would help by reducing under hood temperatures.


My first thought was that it may drive temperatures up to a dangerous level on the turbo. They discussed that, the increase in incoming air temperature (minimal), and several other considerations.

Really interested in what Bullet Proof Diesel comes up with though.
 

ResGuy68

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As someone who doesn't understand the emissions delete crowd (haven't we fucked our planet enough?) I would like to point out that the cooldown is about turbo and oil temperatures, not emissions. If you aren't deleting your turbo, how do you expect something that is intended to mitigate thermal working of the turbo to go away when you remove a separate system that has little impact on how much your turbo is working... One could even argue that if anything, the increased cycling of your turbo and reduced cycling times (due to lower backpressure) would increase the need to cool-down your turbo if you did an emissions modification, however the reality is that the numbers are likely to be insubstantial.
Thanks for weighing in. I'd assumed that effluent exhaust gas would cause greater cooling load on the EGR cooler. I hadn't thought of decreased load on the turbo (assuming that the EGR valve is downstream of the compressor).
 

CWRUYOTE

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Does the diesel need to regen? Generally diesels are tuned to either produce nox or particulate. Since the jeel diesel uses def it was tuned to make more nox. Regen is usually on a diesel tuned to make particulate and is needed to burn the spot off the particulate filter. Granted my experience is all on highway trucks and off-road so curious if consumer diesels are different.
The Gen 3 VM diesel engine on the JL/JT does regenerate. Unfortunately, there isn't any dash light to indicate regeneration, although you can use ScanGauge II or the Banks equivalent to detect when regeneration is going on.
 

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The Gen 3 VM diesel engine on the JL/JT does regenerate. Unfortunately, there isn't any dash light to indicate regeneration, although you can use ScanGauge II or the Banks equivalent to detect when regeneration is going on.
It’s ridiculous that Jeep doesn’t provide a message for this. Diesel buyers know they’re buying something that’s more complex than normal, and most of them would find this info useful.
 

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gato

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As someone who doesn't understand the emissions delete crowd (haven't we fucked our planet enough?) I would like to point out that the cooldown is about turbo and oil temperatures, not emissions. If you aren't deleting your turbo, how do you expect something that is intended to mitigate thermal working of the turbo to go away when you remove a separate system that has little impact on how much your turbo is working... One could even argue that if anything, the increased cycling of your turbo and reduced cycling times (due to lower backpressure) would increase the need to cool-down your turbo if you did an emissions modification, however the reality is that the numbers are likely to be insubstantial.
You do realize that all the emissions systems/processes you mentioned (EGR, DPF, high-temp regen, exhaust post treatment) are all back pressure and/or heat generating/trapping systems.

The fact that diesel engines require so much in emissions systems to meet regulations, combined with the fact that these systems greatly affect performance, maintenance/operating costs, and longevity of the components near all that heat is what drives people to delete them.

Modern diesels are a nightmare. They are typically only economically justified in very narrow applications long-haul cargo/towing.
 

driventoadventure

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You do realize that all the emissions systems/processes you mentioned (EGR, DPF, high-temp regen, exhaust post treatment) are all back pressure and/or heat generating/trapping systems.

The fact that diesel engines require so much in emissions systems to meet regulations, combined with the fact that these systems greatly affect performance, maintenance/operating costs, and longevity of the components near all that heat is what drives people to delete them.

Modern diesels are a nightmare. They are typically only economically justified in very narrow applications long-haul cargo/towing.
Yes the EGR and the DPF add back-pressure, the regen is a function of the DPF and while the SCRF after the DEF spray will add some backpressure, but the NOx reduction is significant enough that it allows the engine parameters to be tuned closer to a standard optimal running condition while still reducing the quantity of NOx emitted by the engine. The result is that you produce less greenhouse creating gasses - specifically NOx and CxO - while emitting much safer chemicals such as Ammonia and N2.

The thing is that yes, reducing the emissions mitigation equipment can dramatically reduce the complexity and weight of the system as a whole, but returns to my argument. You increase the thermal load of the engine without any efficiency benefit, because the turbo is cycling quicker and more, and the system as a whole is running at a higher total thermal energy you are back to exacerbating the original issue of adding more latent heat to the lubrication system. All while increasing the raw emissions of the system and arguably without increasing the fuel economy of the engine.

There are certainly many intricacies that none of us who don't specifically engineer automobile emissions systems for a living are considering, but hopefully this does a good job of communicating the gist of the argument as I see it to why modern emissions systems actually improve diesel engines.
 

mudog

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I am by no means an expert. But daily driving my jeep diesel rubicon on 37s I think every owner should have a Scan gauge 2. It's cheap insurance and you get an idea of how hot the turbo is and whats your regen status is. I also agree with the previous post that you should always wait a minute before turning off the jeep. Just my .02 cents
 
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MSparks909

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As someone who doesn't understand the emissions delete crowd (haven't we fucked our planet enough?) I would like to point out that the cooldown is about turbo and oil temperatures, not emissions. If you aren't deleting your turbo, how do you expect something that is intended to mitigate thermal working of the turbo to go away when you remove a separate system that has little impact on how much your turbo is working... One could even argue that if anything, the increased cycling of your turbo and reduced cycling times (due to lower backpressure) would increase the need to cool-down your turbo if you did an emissions modification, however the reality is that the numbers are likely to be insubstantial.
Until you have a new emissions diesel strand you in the middle of nowhere in winter then I guess you won’t understand…not to mention the many people who have had emissions problems in and out of warranty costing them thousands of dollars.
There are certainly many intricacies that none of us who don't specifically engineer automobile emissions systems for a living are considering, but hopefully this does a good job of communicating the gist of the argument as I see it to why modern emissions systems actually improve diesel engines.
While the benefits of common rail injection, VGT turbos and NVH reduction as diesels have improved are definitely notable improvements, all of the emissions stuff is a detriment to long term reliability, full stop. I can point to many pre-07 diesels in my immediate area/friend group with 3-400K + miles on them with minimal maintenance. You won’t get that same longevity with these newer diesels, period. The emissions stuff degrades them and chokes them out in the long run (clogged EGR/DPF anyone?) and turns them into 150-200K engines tops without major emissions issues. YMMV but I would personally not own a post 07’ diesel out of warranty that has not been deleted. FWIW I daily drive a 14’ F250 6.7 that’s been deleted since 20K. 140K on it now and hasn’t had an issue since. My DPF was fully clogged by 20K miles.
 

Jaeth

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^^^^ This is my guess.

You need to idle a diesel (any diesel) for at least a minute after it's been working hard. If you don't the heat will cook the oil in the turbo and before too many miles it will clog the oil passage. Then you will be replacing the turbo...

I wonder if the 2.0 has a similar requirement...

The 2.0 does have a similar requirement.
Just got back from a trip to Colorado and had a few instances of this "derate" happening. I believe it was the turbo being hot and not engaging until the oil flow was restarted (cooling restored).

Shut off because people around, Hop out to take a look, not be shut off long, hop back in and restarted, shift to drive and it would act gutless.

Figured out if I started it and didn't move for about 15 seconds we were fine.
 

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ResGuy68

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Yes the EGR and the DPF add back-pressure, the regen is a function of the DPF and while the SCRF after the DEF spray will add some backpressure, but the NOx reduction is significant enough that it allows the engine parameters to be tuned closer to a standard optimal running condition while still reducing the quantity of NOx emitted by the engine. The result is that you produce less greenhouse creating gasses - specifically NOx and CxO - while emitting much safer chemicals such as Ammonia and N2.

The thing is that yes, reducing the emissions mitigation equipment can dramatically reduce the complexity and weight of the system as a whole, but returns to my argument. You increase the thermal load of the engine without any efficiency benefit, because the turbo is cycling quicker and more, and the system as a whole is running at a higher total thermal energy you are back to exacerbating the original issue of adding more latent heat to the lubrication system. All while increasing the raw emissions of the system and arguably without increasing the fuel economy of the engine.

There are certainly many intricacies that none of us who don't specifically engineer automobile emissions systems for a living are considering, but hopefully this does a good job of communicating the gist of the argument as I see it to why modern emissions systems actually improve diesel engines.
I think I'm missing something here

My read puts EGT in the 1000F range for an engine under load.

This compares to turbo compressor effluent in the 500F range.

I believe both systems run through heat exchangers and presumably load the same cooling loop.

Wouldn't EGR result in greater load on the cooling system? You're dumping much more heat per unit volume (due to both higher temperatures and higher combusted air specific heat).

I understand that EGR reduces combustion temperatures. However, most of that heat is dumped through exhaust and creates only limited load on cooling.
 

gato

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I think I'm missing something here

My read puts EGT in the 1000F range for an engine under load.

This compares to turbo compressor effluent in the 500F range.

I believe both systems run through heat exchangers and presumably load the same cooling loop.

Wouldn't EGR result in greater load on the cooling system? You're dumping much more heat per unit volume (due to both higher temperatures and higher combusted air specific heat).

I understand that EGR reduces combustion temperatures. However, most of that heat is dumped through exhaust and creates only limited load on cooling.
If you want to know the details of EGR, read the below article....
https://x-engineer.org/automotive-e...ecirculation-egr-complete-guide-introduction/

Net, net is that EGR is a nasty heat trap and it needs to be much more "aggressive" on diesel engines to reduce NOX. These emissions control systems are a huge contributor to the complexity, lack of reliability and maintenance cost increases on modern engines. On diesels they are extreme.
 

OrangeCJ5

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You people are absolutely ridiculous. Vehicle break downs are not "attempting to kill your family."
The scenario that the OP describes is not a vehicle break down. It is a engine protection system that is designed in.

First time it happened to me I was getting back on the freeway from a rest stop in Idaho, where the speed limit is 80mph, and we were almost ran off the road by traffic. It is extremely dangerous... Normally merging on the freeway with the EcoD is a dream, but when it randomly decides to derate, it becomes a nightmare.

It happened later again in the same trip, forcing me(Diesel Gladiator) and my dad(diesel JL) to get in to the slow lane, and get passed by people who were towing and large semi's... you don't expect this behaviour when you are just cruising along with some suitcases and a cooler in the bed.

Interesting thread over on the Gladi Side: https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/ecodiesel-power-derating-as-temps-rise.45447/
 

gerlbaum

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Modern diesels are a nightmare. They are typically only economically justified in very narrow applications long-haul cargo/towing.
I thought that was the point behind them in the first place.

Lol everyone here is complaining about their gas cars not passing emissions because they don’t drive them as much because of the work from home so they’re not passing the emissions readiness checks. AZ only allows 1 emissions readiness failure for gas cars. They’re all having issues.
In all honesty, there’s probably only a few modern cars you would want to own out of warranty. The lane correction, interior gadgets, hybrid system, and other sensors on cars are going to make buying an older car totally uneconomical.

Here’s a question: What does eliminating the etorque system do to the car? All the 4 doors have some sort of hybrid system.
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