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GrayHawk20

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So true - but the Bronco is already disappointing so many….after such a long wait. I don’t understand how the MachE rollout, which involves so much new technology, has gone so well while the Bronco deployment has been a total cluster…. Desirability is a matter of perception and I feel Ford is beginning to lose this battle with the Bronco. If I were in the market to trade my Jeep, I wouldn’t even think about the Bronco…whereas 6 months ago it seemed entirely plausible.
Same I had a reservation for the Bronco and was willing to trade my lifted Sahara but after delays before production. I told the dealership I was cancelling. Glad I did now I am waiting for a 392 which is worth it IMHO
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Ridgway Jeeper

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Limited artication from the ifs is the only way I see tipping at this location, but flex is a "made up issue"?
Were you there? Funny, the last vehicle that made the news rolling over there was a Ram truck with solid axles... So yes, still a made up issue despite several trying to justify their opinions. There have been Jeeps rolled here as well. Nice try though!
 

Zandcwhite

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Were you there? Funny, the last vehicle that made the news rolling over there was a Ram truck with solid axles... So yes, still a made up issue despite several trying to justify their opinions. There have been Jeeps rolled here as well. Nice try though!
The ram literally drove off the side of the trail, pretty sure that has 0 to do with suspension design. The 4runner is exactly where this fj flopped and good luck refuting it's ifs/articulation related on video. If the vehicle had the suspension travel to keep the wheels on the ground,
do you really think it would topple over?
 

Ridgway Jeeper

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The ram literally drove off the side of the trail, pretty sure that has 0 to do with suspension design. The 4runner is exactly where this fj flopped and good luck refuting it's ifs/articulation related on video. If the vehicle had the suspension travel to keep the wheels on the ground,
do you really think it would topple over?
Sure could...Are you suggesting Jeeps do not roll over? I could inundate the page with those videos if there is any doubt...
 

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Zandcwhite

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Sure could...Are you suggesting Jeeps do not roll over? I could inundate the page with those videos if there is any doubt...
Anything can roll over, a small ledge will not cause a cart wheel if the suspension has sufficient travel. I can't tell if you are just latched on to an illogical statement (articulation doesn't matter) or if you honestly haven't ever driven down that same ledge that's in your back yard? We happened to be behind an fj on that exact obstacle this July and although he didn't roll it he got way tippy on that exact spot with a tire way in the air. We drove down right behind him without lifting a tire. This video clearly shows the weight transfer and subsequent roll caused by tires in the air. It's basic physics. Vehicles on 4 wheels don't tip over. I'd love a video of any vehicle rolling without lifting a tire?
 

Ridgway Jeeper

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Anything can roll over, a small ledge will not cause a cart wheel if the suspension has sufficient travel. I can't tell if you are just latched on to an illogical statement (articulation doesn't matter) or if you honestly haven't ever driven down that same ledge that's in your back yard? We happened to be behind an fj on that exact obstacle this July and although he didn't roll it he got way tippy on that exact spot with a tire way in the air. We drove down right behind him without lifting a tire. This video clearly shows the weight transfer and subsequent roll caused by tires in the air. It's basic physics. Vehicles on 4 wheels don't tip over. I'd love a video of any vehicle rolling without lifting a tire?
I have led a group with an FJ down that very trail. You are discounting a bunch of other factors and focusing on the suspension travel just as you suggest I am supporting an "illogical statement". You act as though going down that hill the vehicles in question didn't have both front tires on the ground. Lifting a rear tire is not what caused the roll over. High center of gravity, peoples proclivity for hauling a bunch of gear on the roof because they are "overlanding" has contributed more than once for sure.

I used to do these trails and the Moab trails a lot in a G-Wagen. Solid axles but with and overly stiff front sway bar that often had tires in the air, never lost one and we did some serious trails, and I did them leading beginners on street tires at times. Anybody can pick the wrong line, anybody can go too fast, anybody can panic and make a sudden move. Having all the tires down doesn't have anything to do with it.

Since this was a Bronco based comparo show me the rolled Bronco's and the stock Jeeps that made it where they didn't. We have certainly seen some video on the forum of the Bronco doing some pretty big obstacles and not having a problem. I think the illogical conclusion being made is that lifting a tire matters as I haven't seen any proof of that, just conjecture.
 

Zandcwhite

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I have led a group with an FJ down that very trail. You are discounting a bunch of other factors and focusing on the suspension travel just as you suggest I am supporting an "illogical statement". You act as though going down that hill the vehicles in question didn't have both front tires on the ground. Lifting a rear tire is not what caused the roll over. High center of gravity, peoples proclivity for hauling a bunch of gear on the roof because they are "overlanding" has contributed more than once for sure.

I used to do these trails and the Moab trails a lot in a G-Wagen. Solid axles but with and overly stiff front sway bar that often had tires in the air, never lost one and we did some serious trails, and I did them leading beginners on street tires at times. Anybody can pick the wrong line, anybody can go too fast, anybody can panic and make a sudden move. Having all the tires down doesn't have anything to do with it.

Since this was a Bronco based comparo show me the rolled Bronco's and the stock Jeeps that made it where they didn't. We have certainly seen some video on the forum of the Bronco doing some pretty big obstacles and not having a problem. I think the illogical conclusion being made is that lifting a tire matters as I haven't seen any proof of that, just conjecture.
Every roll over I've ever seen starts with lifting a tire (kind of necessary to roll). Again, articulation isn't everything. Lifting a tire doesn't guarantee a roll over, but you cannot roll without lifting 1. The longer you can keep all 4 on the ground, the less likely you will roll. The more traction you will have. The more stable your rig will be. The better your suspension can work. The goal of any suspension is to maintain tires on the ground. Watch a trophy truck hauling ass through the desert. Tires in contact with the ground minimize the impact loading created by uncontrolled suspension movement. A tire in the air has no spring rate, no shock absorption, no traction, and no steering capability. That is obvious to anyone from 5th grade physics to real world observation to experienced wheelers. It is always better to have the tires on the ground period.
 

Ridgway Jeeper

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Every roll over I've ever seen starts with lifting a tire (kind of necessary to roll). Again, articulation isn't everything. Lifting a tire doesn't guarantee a roll over, but you cannot roll without lifting 1. The longer you can keep all 4 on the ground, the less likely you will roll. The more traction you will have. The more stable your rig will be. The better your suspension can work. The goal of any suspension is to maintain tires on the ground. Watch a trophy truck hauling ass through the desert. Tires in contact with the ground minimize the impact loading created by uncontrolled suspension movement. A tire in the air has no spring rate, no shock absorption, no traction, and no steering capability. That is obvious to anyone from 5th grade physics to real world observation to experienced wheelers. It is always better to have the tires on the ground period.
So now the insults are coming because you can not really quantify what you think is the correct answer... You are having to take this to a much more extreme level to try and make your point and still have failed to do so. This was about the stock Bronco and a stock Jeep, one lifting tires and the other not but still going the exact same places. Simple proof that it doesn't really matter. Again, show me where the stock Jeep goes that causes the Bronco to roll over because it lifts a tire. That has been the claim form the beginning that the Jeep is better because it doesn't lift a tire as easily. I see zero substantiation of that claim even after pages of people insisting this is the case. I will bow out again for a couple days while you guys see if you can prove your theory...LOL
 

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Zandcwhite

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So now the insults are coming because you can not really quantify what you think is the correct answer... You are having to take this to a much more extreme level to try and make your point and still have failed to do so. This was about the stock Bronco and a stock Jeep, one lifting tires and the other not but still going the exact same places. Simple proof that it doesn't really matter. Again, show me where the stock Jeep goes that causes the Bronco to roll over because it lifts a tire. That has been the claim form the beginning that the Jeep is better because it doesn't lift a tire as easily. I see zero substantiation of that claim even after pages of people insisting this is the case. I will bow out again for a couple days while you guys see if you can prove your theory...LOL
By definition every roll over starts with lifting a tire... but sure that doesn't effect stability at all.
 

rallydefault

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Same I had a reservation for the Bronco and was willing to trade my lifted Sahara but after delays before production. I told the dealership I was cancelling. Glad I did now I am waiting for a 392 which is worth it IMHO
Nothing like cancelling a wait to join another wait lol
 

GrayHawk20

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Nothing like cancelling a wait to join another wait lol
waiting for production but I had cancelled it end of 2020 short time after the 392 was reveal for production.
 

Headbarcode

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So now the insults are coming because you can not really quantify what you think is the correct answer... You are having to take this to a much more extreme level to try and make your point and still have failed to do so. This was about the stock Bronco and a stock Jeep, one lifting tires and the other not but still going the exact same places. Simple proof that it doesn't really matter. Again, show me where the stock Jeep goes that causes the Bronco to roll over because it lifts a tire. That has been the claim form the beginning that the Jeep is better because it doesn't lift a tire as easily. I see zero substantiation of that claim even after pages of people insisting this is the case. I will bow out again for a couple days while you guys see if you can prove your theory...LOL
You're beyond help, and every post of yours proves your complete lack of credibility, so whipping boy is your new position.
Jeep Wrangler JL MotorTrend: Bronco vs Wrangler - Which is Best? 1qefr0

Jeep Wrangler JL MotorTrend: Bronco vs Wrangler - Which is Best? 7a8d344d7cfeca924477cdce6516266d


But the best part is that you will be back, and you'll continue chopping your own legs out from under you.
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