All electric Wrangler in 2023?

[Rufus]

Apologies if this was posted elsewhere already.


Jeep veep says 'good chance' electric Wrangler is coming in 2023
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/jeep-veep-says-electric-wrangler-2023

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[LooselyHeldPlans]

If I were to buy an electric vehicle, it wouldn't be a Wrlangler... at least for the foreseeable future. More power to them though, it's the direction everyone is going.

 

[aldo98229]

Electric vehicle technology is not yet ready for prime time when it comes to off-roading and towing.

There are multiple videos out there showing Teslas towing; their range gets cut by two thirds, from 300 down to 100 miles!

TFL recently showed a 4Xe going up a trail in purely electric mode: it made it only 3.4 miles before the gasoline engine had to kick in.

At this point I see a Wrangler EV being strictly for mall use.

 

[shane h.]

I don't think I'll be able to get a charging station up here... and I don't plan on giving this up...

I guess if your Wrangler is a true mall crawler then an all electric Jeep would be a viable option. Just not for us.

 

[rcadden]

@aldo98229 I have to agree. Jeep may be ready to *build* an all-electric Wrangler, but the technology/infrastructure isn't quite there just yet, especially given that [some] Wrangler buyers tend to venture into truly off-the-grid situations where range anxiety is pretty real.

One thing to be clear about "range anxiety" - it's not really the *range*, but rather rescue/usage. It's one thing to run out of juice on the side of the highway, it's yet another to run out of juice in the middle of an offroad park or deep in the woods/desert. Most ICE vehicles today can go ~300-400 miles on a tank of gas. Similarly, most fully-electric vehicles have a 300-400 mile range. It's not the *range* that causes anxiety, it's the *stability* of that range.

Gasoline has a pretty standard energy production, measured in MPG. Sure, it might vary a little for a given vehicle, but if you've got 1 gallon of gas in a Jeep, you're likely to get at least 10 miles (absolute worst-case scenario) up to 25 miles or more, depending on the situation.

If you have 1...."unit" of power in a Jeep, you're less confident in what that's going to get you. You see this today in towing, etc. You might start an EV and it says you've got 300 miles range, but then after an hour of driving, you're down to 100 miles because you were towing, or you have a lead foot, or any other number of factors.

This "standardization of power", and the ease/availability of being able to "fill up" is what really causes "range anxiety" - not the actual range.

Thus, there are a few key things that the EV industry needs to figure out before EVs can really take off, IMO:

1. Portable refill/rescue = like jerry cans, but with electricity. If I happen to drain the battery (like driving on E), how easily/conveniently can I get enough to get to a fill point (gas station or EV charger). This one is actually pretty easy - the technology exists (portable power packs, generators, etc) it's just not prevalent or conveniently packaged. There's no reason *technologically* that you couldn't have a battery the size of a rotopack jerry can with an EV plug attachment.
2. Charging stations = the epitome of the "chicken vs egg" problem. As there are more EVs on the road, there will be more justification/feasibility of building new charging stations, etc. The charging tech is already improving today with Level 2 chargers, etc. Even better, unlike gas stations, charging stations require little to no infrastructure. There's no *technological* reason you couldn't put charging stations in B.F.E. with a big solar panel roof.
3. On-vehicle charging = solar panels are continuously becoming cheaper, lighter, more durable, and more efficient. It's not crazy to imagine covering a hood/hard top with solar panels. No, it's not likely to be enough to keep your tank full on a road trip, but it probably IS enough even today to keep it topped up while wheeling in Moab.

 

[Kurlon]

Unfortunately even if you covered every square inch of a Wrangler with solar, it wouldn't be enough wattage in full ideal angled sun to accomplish much of anything. Solarpanels just don't have the capture efficiency to pull that off yet.

 

[rcadden]

Unfortunately even if you covered every square inch of a Wrangler with solar, it wouldn't be enough wattage in full ideal angled sun to accomplish much of anything. Solarpanels just don't have the capture efficiency to pull that off yet.

I realize that. Which is why I listed it under "things the industry needs to figure out". It's *theoretically* possible, but not currently *technologically* possible. My point was that solar power technology is relatively infantile, today, and yet we're still seeing big gains in durability and efficiency, so it's only a matter of time.

The whole EV "thing" is basically the same as what the ICE industry had to solve ~120 years ago. It's the same problems, except that "humans" as a species have become exponentially more technologically advanced. EVs have actually been a thing for about as long as ICE, just not en masse quite the same.

 

[slowpoke387]

@aldo98229
If you have 1...."unit" of power in a Jeep, you're less confident in what that's going to get you. You see this today in towing, etc. You might start an EV and it says you've got 300 miles range, but then after an hour of driving, you're down to 100 miles because you were towing, or you have a lead foot, or any other number of factors.

To be fair ICE's do that too. I do agree with your post though.

 

[rallydefault]

For now, solar is probably best thought of as a last-resort sort of thing. Something that can be there collecting energy on those sunny days to store for times when you need just those few miles to get to a charger or home.

@shane h.
Do they have a gas station up there? I don't understand your point. ICE vehicles can run out of fuel, too.

 

[rcadden]

I don't think I'll be able to get a charging station up here... and I don't plan on giving this up...

I guess if your Wrangler is a true mall crawler then an all electric Jeep would be a viable option. Just not for us.

This is a great example of why this is a consumer perception issue, not a technological one. Your ICE jeep has a ~400 mile range. Let's assume that a full EV Jeep also has a 400 mile range, which is a fair assumption if you look across the EV market of Tesla, Rivian, F-150 lightning, etc.

If your current ICE Jeep is fine out there, then an EV one would, too (same 400 mile range). If you've got an overlanding rig setup, then you likely have a couple of gas cans. Let's call it 6 gallons. Assuming 20 MPG, 6 gallons would get you 180 miles, or ~45% of your tank.

1. Assuming an EV Jeep has a ~82kWh capacity (same as a Tesla Model 3), a 40kWh-capacity portable battery would be the same solution = ~180 miles. Battery technology isn't there - yet, but it's improving swiftly. It's not unrealistic to imagine that within the next ~3 years, you could buy a portable 40kWh-capacity "jerry can" for overlanding.

2. Putting a solar-powered charging station out there would be even easier - there's no infrastructure needed to power OR refill it. Sure, solar's going to be slow (today, see above), but it's like you'd have a line of people - it would have plenty of time between uses to refill a couple of Tesla PowerWalls or similar stored inside.

Even better, because it doesn't need any infrastructure, you could design the charging station to blend in with the scenery and avoid having to run power lines all the way there and back, or getting a big tanker truck in there to refill it.

WORST-CASE SCENARIO

Let's assume everything sucks and two Jeeps get stuck out there on an empty tank - an ICE and an EV. That ICE guy isn't going to move an inch unless someone else brings a gas can, period. You can't really just drop a well to pull up a gallon of gas to get you there. Today, the EV guy *could* pull out any number of readily available solar panels* and while it would, admittedly, take A WHILE, he could get enough charge to get back to the trailhead. The EV is significantly more recoverable without assistance.

*Solar is just the most convenient/obvious answer. As more Jeepers venture out, there is likely to be a whole market of nature-oriented charging solutions. A pop-up kit for backroaders that uses the current of a nearby river. Maybe a wind-turbine for desertrunners.

EDIT: adding a disclaimer pointing back to my earlier post that the EV industry (batteries and charging) still need to continue to innovate with regards to standardization of energy production and portability. But it's more likely that they're going to do that than that gasoline gets cheaper or cleaner.

 

[shane h.]

For now, solar is probably best thought of as a last-resort sort of thing. Something that can be there collecting energy on those sunny days to store for times when you need just those few miles to get to a charger or home.

@shane h.
Do they have a gas station up there? I don't understand your point. ICE vehicles can run out of fuel, too.

I have 10 gallons in cans with me. Half a tank. Is there a battery pack that will do that yet? Didn't think so.

 

[Reinen]

Um, why is everyone only considering a "jerry can" battery or solar?

A highly efficient, purpose designed propane generator is the answer. They're not very big and a 20lb propane tank can produce 124.2 kwh of electricity. That will fully recharge an 82kWh Tesla Model 3 one and a half times.

If you have range anxiety with that, you are a very special case. Or, calamity, you might need to carry 2 20lb propane tanks.

 

[CaJLMetalHead]

- Perhaps a different approach to making a much lighter off-road capable vehicle would be the key to achieving 500 mile range..
- Unibody
- in-hub electric motors to eliminate heavy components (axles, transmission, transfer case, shafts) look at the Lordstown Endurance truck... (search for Elaphe motors)
- Independent Front-end suspension or solid axle with in-hub motors that look more like portals.

Or, you could tow a solar panel as this guy did !!

 

[rallydefault]

I have 10 gallons in cans with me. Half a tank. Is there a battery pack that will do that yet? Didn't think so.

Nope, not yet. That's what the future is for, my friend.

When did our response to challenges change from demanding ingenuity and hard work to whining and snarky comments?

 

[rcadden]

Um, why is everyone only considering a "jerry can" battery or solar?

A highly efficient, purpose designed propane generator is the answer. They're not very big and a 20lb propane tank can produce 124.2 kwh of electricity. That will fully recharge an 82kWh Tesla Model 3 one and a half times.

If you have range anxiety with that, you are a very special case. Or, calamity, you might need to carry 2 20lb propane tanks.

I mean, it's still using fossil fuels, but I love the out-of-the-box thinking.

As I mentioned above, there could be a whole industry of overland-friendly-electric-production gear, suited for different environments.

- Collapsible wind turbine
- Wood-burning generator (recharge your Jeep while chillin by the fire)
- Water turbine if you're wheeling near a river
- steam-powered

All things that generate electricity without needing gasoline or other fossil fuels.

The big question (and opportunity) is making them small/portable/affordable, and how to get that electricity *into* your EV Jeep.

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