4xe purchase and 1150 mile drive home

[Sboden]

Are you running 37” tires on your 4ex too? If not your comparison is off by quite a bit. As the 3.6 JLU with stock 3.73 or lower gearing and 37” tires would be a power and fuel pig when compared to the 4ex with even the tallest tire (33”) offered stock on the 4ex Rubicon. I don’t think anyone would debate that.

I guarantee I will see overall better fuel mileage (cheaper fuel costs) with 37's on the 4Xe. This will happen on Tuesday. Do you know of any other platform that went 730 miles between fuel fill ups and that is with a quarter of tank still left? The forum has already shown 35's and a couple of 37's have seen little decrease in all electric range. The 470 full torque figure is way above the 3.6. The diesel would have cost me more to buy and way more in maintenance especially because I don't put enough miles on my JLUR for a diesel. The 392 is $20,000 more, gets worse gas mileage and requires premium fuel. It takes $1.70 to fill up my electric range for 24 miles. I predict that to go down to around 19 miles with 37's. I'm pretty sure $1.70 to fill up electric is better than the cost of gas. There are motors for all sorts of people available which is great. I do agree with you that if you drive a lot of miles it doesn't make as much sense. It wouldn't for me because I didn't buy it to be "green" or "eco". I bought it for the HP and Torque. I got the Rubicon for not much more than my Willys edition with the 3.6. You should go test drive one. I've not understood why people need to question this stuff. I can tell you I've never went on the 2.0, 392 or diesel sections of the forum and questioned their decisions. It is their money and their decision to make.

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[bondijoe]

That Sarge Green looks great. I am just surprised people want 20" wheels. Where did you end up selling the HA wheels?

Thanks! Sarge is even better in real life for anyone torn on the color. Posted wheels and tires here and Craigslist. Sold to another forum member and had someone interested from Craigslist too.

 

[Geesmill]

Thanks! Sarge is even better in real life for anyone torn on the color. Posted wheels and tires here and Craigslist. Sold to another forum member and had someone interested from Craigslist too.

Oh I guess I might have to pull the trigger. I was thinking a Rubicon, but that seems like overkill for what we do.

 

[Ratiogear]

It seems pretty consistent that people head over to the 4xe subforum to shit talk it.

• It's way too expensive.
• It's so much heavier, the extra hp and torque don't do anything because of the extra weight.
• A jeep isn't about mileage, such a stupid decision.
• Also it gets worse gas mileage because it's heavy and once you're out of 22 miles of electric then it's just a heavy car on a 2.0turbo, such a stupid choice to buy, EVERYONE drives like 90 miles a day.
• The batteries are going to burst and leak and also explode because I ford the fjords all day.
• It has a hump in the back instead of lay flat seats? UNACCEPTABLE.
• Not everyone can get the tax credit.
• If you have to do math to justify it, it's clearly a bad decision.
• If you drive long range it's terrible so the diesel is a better option because it's better for long range
• If you don't drive long range it's terrible because you're not driving long range so you're not getting a real jeep experience
• Pseudo political bullshit about the recyclability of batteries and continued reliance on oil is the actual green decision.
• Pseudo political bullshit about tax credits or charging stations being theft/hoping someone else pays for you.
• Pseudo political bullshit about common core (not joking this actually happened)

Maybe I'm the ignorant one here. Are there 4xe advocates heading over to the 392 forums and trash talking it because the 4xe is a better deal? Are they doing the same in the other powerplant forums pushing to buy electric?

Or is it just that people have decided in advance not only that they don't want the 4xe, but also that they have an issue with its existence for reasons unrelated to its performance, price, or any other objective measure?

 

[T Town]

It seems pretty consistent that people head over to the 4xe subforum to shit talk it.

• It's way too expensive.
• It's so much heavier, the extra hp and torque don't do anything because of the extra weight.
• A jeep isn't about mileage, such a stupid decision.
• Also it gets worse gas mileage because it's heavy and once you're out of 22 miles of electric then it's just a heavy car on a 2.0turbo, such a stupid choice to buy, EVERYONE drives like 90 miles a day.
• The batteries are going to burst and leak and also explode because I ford the fjords all day.
• It has a hump in the back instead of lay flat seats? UNACCEPTABLE.
• Not everyone can get the tax credit.
• If you have to do math to justify it, it's clearly a bad decision.
• If you drive long range it's terrible so the diesel is a better option because it's better for long range
• If you don't drive long range it's terrible because you're not driving long range so you're not getting a real jeep experience
• Pseudo political bullshit about the recyclability of batteries and continued reliance on oil is the actual green decision.
• Pseudo political bullshit about tax credits or charging stations being theft/hoping someone else pays for you.
• Pseudo political bullshit about common core (not joking this actually happened)

Maybe I'm the ignorant one here. Are there 4xe advocates heading over to the 392 forums and trash talking it because the 4xe is a better deal? Are they doing the same in the other powerplant forums pushing to buy electric?

Or is it just that people have decided in advance not only that they don't want the 4xe, but also that they have an issue with its existence for reasons unrelated to its performance, price, or any other objective measure?

uh, yeah. That’s all I wanted to say but am too lazy to type. Let me sign my John Hancock and be done with it.
OK, I was going to write more but my brain, thankfully, kicked in.
Simply, this is a great response.

 

[dan1000]

Have you been able to get in touch with Phillip recently?

PM sent. I think he's out for a couple days.

 

[dan1000]

I don't understand or agree with the claim that my 4xe will get worse mileage than a non-xe either. So far the worst gas only mileage I've encountered is 24 mpg, battery is out of juice but Jeep still runs about 10-15% of the time on regenerated electric when driving in hybrid mode. Admittedly saying you can drive 700+ miles between fill-ups is meaningless, but I also don't see how someone can show less than 20 mpg on the ICE..

My 1150 mile trip was essentially all highway, so there was virtually no chance for regeneration. It's kind of a worst case scenario for any hybrid. In town, mileage would be way above 20, I'm certain. On the highway (long long drive), that extra 500 lbs of battery counts for some loss of mileage. But how many times will I do something like that? Not many. So overall I'm sure my mileage will be way better in my 4xe than in a non-hybrid.

 

[XACEX]

I'm curious if that is the same Phillip Olson who was a classmate at AAA Academy. Hmm...I coudnt tell you. I got kicked out of that school for doing naughty things with a girl...not in a Jeep lol.

 

[orejo]

This whole conversation and the weird backlash against people interested in the 4xe seems so silly to me. If you are already a Jeep owner who off-roads, likes to min/max their vehicle with mods to get the best experience, and your situation makes having some electric range a good use case then this is a smart choice for you. If you are new to having a Jeep and, like the SoCal people cited earlier, just want to appear "green" without understanding the full impact then great - thanks for investing in the future and having your dollar speak for you. Finally, if you are an informed consumer with a use case that is ideal for a low range phev that can support remote adventures then this vehicle is perfect for you. Anyone not interested, move along and focus on the vehicles you do like instead of trying to scare away new Jeep customers.

Personally, we already have a full EV as our primary vehicle. We had kept 3 vehicles in order to have a truck to haul things (old tiny Nissan) and to teach our kids to drive a stick. This vehicle fits our second car use case perfectly, with my commute fitting in electric range and the ability to tow allowing us to get rid of the truck and start camping with a trailer instead of tents or cabin rentals. 90% of our use will be all electric and the other 10% gets us enjoying the outdoors even more.

So enough with the culture clash and try to use this vehicle as a rare opportunity for some common ground and understanding that we all want to enjoy our world, and those of us here want to do that in a Jeep.

 

[entropy]

Lol - it's good to laugh. Plus, as an engineer (albeit software, not mechanical), I appreciate that there is a puzzle to solve (the steering).

And as I mentioned in my other thread, I now need to get it ready for flat-towing behind my MH. So maybe a new bumper ... and a winch ... and it will sag, so a lift ... which will allow bigger tires ... so perhaps ditch the 20" wheels ... but it's not a Rubicon ... and besides, it's my daily driver ... decisions, decisions, decisions.

Solid front axle. I am sure your steering is fine. I test drove a Jeep that had the steering issue once. It was all over the road, felt immediately wrong and dangerous.

The steering issue is real, but a lot of people come to this forum and get in their head they have the steering issue. Some have replaced every steering component including the steering box and guess what. The "problem" is still there.

 

[enzo]

Have you been able to get in touch with Phillip recently? I'm in NV and also ordered from him but I haven't had any luck contacting Phillip in over a week. I've tried emails, text, and calling but it's been radio silence. According to Jeep chat, my JLU arrived at Bud Clary yesterday and I need to make arrangements to fly up there or arrange for transport.

I also live in Nevada and bought from Phillip. My4xe is suppose to come this week. I have not heard from him, but if you call the dealership and speak to a salesperson, they will gladly help with information.

 

[Bren]

I'm the proud owner of a new Unlimited Sahara 4xe, which I picked up on Tuesday in Seattle, and then drove 20 hours home over the next two days. Here are a few thoughts. This is my first Jeep, so definitely a newbie here.

It's comfortable. Even after two very long days, my 56 year old body felt well cuddled by the very comfortable interior.

It's quieter than I thought it would be. My other car is a Tesla, and no, the 4xe is not *that* quiet, but ... the ICE was on the whole way home (of course), and it was hardly noticeable. Yes, plenty of wind noise, but even that was less than I expected.

It's powerful, but ... you know this already. Plenty of fuss-less, confidence-inspiring torque.

The visibility is wonderful -- far better than my Tesla with its oversize headrests blocking the rear window. By comparison, the visibility in all directions from the Jeep's driver's seat is amazingly good.

If I was going 75-80mph on I-5 keeping up with traffic, MPG started out around 20, but by the end of the trip South, 18.5 was reported.

Steering is decidedly un-Tesla. I found that frequent corrective inputs were needed. I know some people have had steering issues. I'm hopeful I'm not one of them. Once I got home, I looked at the amount of wiggle in the steering wheel, and there's basically none. Perhaps one of you will take mine for a test drive sometime and let me know whether its normal or not. The steering box under the hood is black, not silver.

One disappointment was the adaptive cruise control. It worked, for sure. But there was not much finesse to it, perhaps because it doesn't have enough situational awareness yet. For example, when behind a vehicle on the highway, it adjusts speed very well. However, if you then signal left to change lanes, it will speed up a little, then 1/2 way through the lane change, it will somehow "re-notice" the car it was following in the old lane, and think "oh crap, we're getting too close", and decelerate. A moment later, with lane-change complete, it then thinks "oh what was I worried about, there's nothing here", and pick up speed again. With maximum regeneration on, the deceleration and re-acceleration are abrupt. Similarly, if there is a vehicle in the lane into which one is changing, and it is closer than the vehicle we were following in the old lane, it gets worried and decelerates. Although it might sound like that's a good behavior, it would be nice it it recognized when the vehicle in the new lane was pulling away (because it is going faster than the Jeep), and simply let the situation improve without decelerating. My Tesla manages all of this very well, and I was surprised that the Jeep wasn't a bit more capable in its ACC. Still, it's a great feature and I'm glad to have it.

Pushing the max-regen button every start-up is a nuisance. Hopefully Tazer or Jeep will have a fix for that soon.

Overall, I'm really pleased with my purchase, from Phillip Olson of Bud Clary Auto Group in Auburn, WA. That name, along with Rob Trachtman here in Orange County, were two names obtained via other posts in this forum. Around here, prices for on-the-lot 4xe's are very high, and I had heard that these two gentlemen would treat me right with pricing. Both of them did, but Phillip Olson happened to have a unit on his lot that he would sell me for the same discount as an ordered-in unit "if I bought it by tomorrow" (which was the end of last month). The unit he had met my needs, so ... I bought it. He suggested someone to deliver it to me, and the delivery was arranged, but it fell through at the last minute, and I decided to pick it up myself, after a year of COVID shut-in. I'm glad I did. The 1150 mile drive south through WA, OR, and CA was amazing.

Many "Jeep waves" on the way home.

Thank you Jeep, for continuing to improve this amazing adventure machine. Thank you JLWranglerForums contributors for all the information that led me to this purchase. And thanks to Phillip Olson and his team for making this a wonderful purchase experience.

-- Dan

If this is your first Jeep, it may just be that you’re adjusting. Tesla has video game steering (I have a model 3 performance). It’s twitchy and precise and very quick.

jeep is a floater. My Jk has a lot of travel in the wheel and it’s totally numb. The slowest steering rack I’ve driven that isn’t a bus. If I drive the Tesla too much and go back to the Jeep I’ll literally laugh out loud at how bad it is. But it’s a Jeep, that’s part of the charm.

I’m a little concerned about the 18.5 on the Highway. I was hoping for better. My 2-door JK reports 26.5 on highway treks, and about 14 in the city. Obviously the 4xe is bigger than my 2-door, heavier than all other wranglers, and is mostly electric around town, but that 18.5 at highway speed still strikes me as disappointing.

 

[Geesmill]

I don't understand or agree with the claim that my 4xe will get worse mileage than a non-xe either. So far the worst gas only mileage I've encountered is 24 mpg, battery is out of juice but Jeep still runs about 10-15% of the time on regenerated electric when driving in hybrid mode. Admittedly saying you can drive 700+ miles between fill-ups is meaningless, but I also don't see how someone can show less than 20 mpg on the ICE. I traded a 2018 Rubicon, almost the same spec as our new 4xe and never ever touched 24 mpg.

Either way, there's pluses and minuses to everything, and room for everyone's opinion, but no arguing with the fact that the 4xe is cheaper than a non-4xe, has more power, rides better, and steers much better than out 2018 ever did. So if you're sorry you bought a non-hybrid Wrangler just get over it and stop trying to justify your decision in nonsensical ways.

So you got a Rubicon 4xe? I have a 2018 Rubicon and we don't really need front and rear lockers, but resale on a Rubicon is usually higher than a Sahara. So have you taken any long trips in your 4xe yet?

 

[aginoc]

Not a troll just trying to understand folks logic with the 4ex. To me where I live Palm Springs area of Ca I see a good number popping up, it makes no sense because almost everyone I talk to that has one is heading to or from the coastal areas (beach cities, mountains, LA, OC and San Diego) all of which are well out of the electric range. It’s puzzling because they are running on the 2.0 engine the vast majority of the time and burning more fuel then a standard 2.0 simply because their Jeep is 500lbs heavier, yet are convinced they are helping the environment.

Case I point was last weekend up in our local mountains(Big Bear). Talking to a couple from LA about their 4ex Rubicon. They said the drove from LA and up the mountain using the gas engine, then “switched” to all electric once they got into Big Bear City to help “preserve the natural environment”. I had to sake my head in disbelief because it burns three times more gas driving up the mountain then it would driving around the city or trails. Wouldn’t it have been better to use the electric power to go up and save burning so much gas? They did not think so. It’s that logic that I am trying to understand about the 4ex owners. Granted that is not all 4ex owners, but it is what I have been encountering a lot here in Ca.

Now I totally get the electric thing and I like the idea of it if one stays within 10 miles of home. But for SoCal. that is kinda a pipe dream because almost everything requires at least a 10 mile drive to get to and often in frwy traffic or on stop and go city streets.

This is a lot of incorrect assumptions/information combined with healthy dose of personal preferences your assuming others share.

1. A lot of people buying jeeps don't care about MPG or, for that matter, don't view the difference in MPG between non-diesel models as material.

The difference between 20MPG and 25MPG is 100 gallons of gas a year (assuming 10,000 miles). In CA, that's $400-450 assuming full gas driving (and CA gas prices are 20-25% higher than other places). But with the hybrid, much of that is offset but driving a bunch of those miles at reduced cost. And the difference between driving the hybrid on gas and a non hybrid is probably 2-3 MPG, not 5 which makes it even closer.

2. Many of those people feel the 4xe drives better (quieter/more torque) and just prefer it regardless of cost. People buying a $50,000+ car are very likely not to care about a few extra dollars in gas (if that proves to be the case which it might not). This is no different than any other situation where car buyers elect to (maybe) pay more for a more powerful engine or other non-essential luxury or performance upgrade. Why is that hard to understand?

3. The 4xe is not optimized for long trips. It will provide the most value on shorter trips. Driving to big bear is a perfect example of suboptimal driving from a MPG perspective. So using that as an example is a bit silly. And your digression about using electric to go up the mountain is inapplicable. If you're starting in LA, the electric battery will be drained before you ever hit the mountain unless you're driving with the engine charging the battery (which would be odd).

4. You're clearly wrong about one thing - you don't seem to understand the value proposition of a hybrid. Even if you have a "SoCal" commute in excess of 10 miles each way (lets say its 20-25), the hybrid will still be less expensive to drive (assuming you charge each night). Even better for people who can charge free/cheap at work. Do the math. Most of the commuting miles driven will be at reduced cost to gas.

5. With the tax incentives, the 4xe is less expensive to acquire assuming you're shopping against a comparably equipped non-hybrid. Particularly true on a lease.

I'm buying the 4xe for my wife. She'll drive it for 3 years and turn it in. We were all set to order a non-hybrid then we drove both. She preferred driving the 4xe, mostly due to the torque. Most of her driving is around town and she won't put more than 10,000 miles/year on the car. Even if she does end up paying more for gas due to reduced non-electric MPG (which I think is very unlikely), most if not all of that will be offset by the lower lease payment. On occasion, we may take a longer driver where the MPG cost is higher - but not too often.

The bottom line is the gas dollars just won't be material either way, but she'll be driving the car she wanted.

In our situation - which I think is fairly common - the tax credits ($9,000) mean the car will be clearly less expensive to own and operate over 3 years. It helps that we already have a level 2 charger in our garage, but even then there are rebates, etc. that probably would have made it worth it.

 

[HungryHound]

Check your tire pressures. Sometimes they come a little overinflated. Mine were over 40 lbs and steering wondered a bit. Backed them down to 35 lbs. Tracks good now.

Just going from the factory 42psi to the recommended 38 made a huge difference on mine.

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