Clutch Recall (FCA W12 | 20V-124) on 2018-2020 JL Manuals [overheating clutch pressure plate]

[DanW]

Nah... I stand by my statement, backed up BTW by the folks at CF who confirmed to me that the slave cylinder plays no role in these failures, however rare they are. Common sense tells you that if the original recall solved the issue there would be no need for the nannycam firmware of the current recall.

I like my MT jeep, that is why I ponied up the extra $ for the CF clutch: It's well-engineered and never a worry about my jeep becoming an IED.

And CF has something to gain. And they appear to be on strike 2, with their second revision. They also claim every factory clutch is weak compared to theirs, so no news flash there. I'm sure they make good clutches, but that doesn't make the factory clutçhes inadequate.

Common sense tells me the 2nd recall is a simple and cheap insurance policy. A safety feature that would have likely prevented the two catastrophic failures.

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[EMS]

And CF has something to gain. And they appear to be on strike 2, with their second revision.

Common sense tells me the 2nd recall is a simple and cheap insurance policy. A safety feature.

Maybe I am remembering this wrong, and correct me if I am, but didn't this second recall arise because a third-party tested the MT JL after having the first recall completed, and still was able to grenade the clutch? So, FCA "voluntarily" issued this second recall?

...anyway, I guess it doesn't matter. You are correct that the original CF was generating a noise in 1st gear, it happened on mine after I regeared to 4.56s. They changed out the friction material and the problem is corrected. My decision to move to the CF actually had nothing to do with the recall, I simply disliked the feel of the OEM clutch.

I also agree with you that this is a VERY rare problem and that most people who have MT JLs will never have a failure even without the recalls. But logic seems to say that some percentage of these clutches exhibit a condition where they slip when they should not. It really is the only way to generate the heat required to blast the pressure plate to pieces. The slave cylinder has nothing to do with keeping a clutch friction plate from slipping when the driver's foot is not engaging the pedal.... that is the job of the finger springs, and they are a mechanical element, not hydraulic.

 

[DanW]

Maybe I am remembering this wrong, and correct me if I am, but didn't this second recall arise because a third-party tested the MT JL after having the first recall completed, and still was able to grenade the clutch? So, FCA "voluntarily" issued this second recall?

...anyway, I guess it doesn't matter. You are correct that the original CF was generating a noise in 1st gear, it happened on mine after I regeared to 4.56s. They changed out the friction material and the problem is corrected. My decision to move to the CF actually had nothing to do with the recall, I simply disliked the feel of the OEM clutch.

I also agree with you that this is a VERY rare problem and that most people who have MT JLs will never have a failure even without the recalls. But logic seems to say that some percentage of these clutches exhibit a condition where they slip when they should not. It really is the only way to generate the heat required to blast the pressure plate to pieces. The slave cylinder has nothing to do with keeping a clutch friction plate from slipping when the driver's foot is not engaging the pedal.... that is the job of the finger springs, and they are a mechanical element, not hydraulic.

Source? I've seen nothing like that. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. But I'm skeptical until I see a reliable source.

Also, from FCA's point of view, would I trust the same folks putting 6 quarts in the 3.6 PUG to properly bleed the hydraulic system? Probably not. So the 2nd recall makes sense there, too. Easy insurance policy.

 

[intentsrig]

And CF has something to gain. And they appear to be on strike 2, with their second revision. They also claim every factory clutch is weak compared to theirs, so no news flash there. I'm sure they make good clutches, but that doesn't make the factory clutçhes inadequate.

Common sense tells me the 2nd recall is a simple and cheap insurance policy. A safety feature that would have likely prevented the two catastrophic failures.

Strike 2? Didn’t CF fix the issue with their JL clutch or are you saying the fix is still not right?

 

[DanW]

Strike 2? Didn’t CF fix the issue with their JL clutch or are you saying the fix is still not right?

THey have 2 iterations and were working on a 3rd revision, last I saw. Not sure exactly why, but there were some on the forum that had some noise issues with at least the first one.

 

[neil]

THey have 2 iterations and were working on a 3rd revision, last I saw. Not sure exactly why, but there were some on the forum that had some noise issues with at least the first one.

I kinda have a thought we will see another revision after jeep starts the recall. Why, because then center force will know what they are working with exactly post recall.

 

[Torero]

I am one of the lucky ones with no issues so far with my clutch. I really like the feeling and easy operation of this clutch. But from that to say that there is nothing wrong and there is no evidence of a problem is a stretch. The clutch is weak and with lower clamping power or not enough friction in the material. First of all, there wouldn’t be a recall if it weren’t necessary. Second, three transmissions exploding is three too many.
Right now there are three cars in my garage with MT. (without getting into what I have driven, I am old). So, third, the other night I did a test with the Wrangler, coming home there is a long hill, not very steep. (To give you an idea, if I leave the cruise control on in 6 th gear and begin climbing at 60 mph, I reach the top at 50 mph.) Anyway, the test was, I was climbing at 60 mph, pedal to the floor, without letting go of the gas, I kicked the clutch in and out and the rpm went to 5000 and started coming down very slowly, the clutch slipping, I had to let go of the gas for it to catch. Came home, got another car, did the same thing, and as expected the rpm dropped immediately as the clutch engaged.
No, I am not concerned about my clutch exploding, I am driving my Jeep without worries, but I find ridiculous to say that this has to do with people not knowing how to drive MT. No other car has software trick to reduce torque and dumb drivers buy other cars other than Jeeps.
so I agree with whoever said above this is a weak clutch for the application. I doubt very much it will make 160,000 miles on the original clutch like the other SUV there in the garage. And that one has been abused off-roading and 4 teenagers learned on it how to drive. FCA is taking a cheap shortcut to mask a quality issue.

 

[DanW]

I kinda have a thought we will see another revision after jeep starts the recall. Why, because then center force will know what they are working with exactly post recall.

The recall does absolutely nothing to the clutch or pressure plate, so I don't see how that has any bearing on what CF does with their design. I would guess that what CF is doing is addressing their own issues they've discovered as theirs has gotten into consumers' hands.

 

[DanW]

I am one of the lucky ones with no issues so far with my clutch. I really like the feeling and easy operation of this clutch. But from that to say that there is nothing wrong and there is no evidence of a problem is a stretch. The clutch is weak and with lower clamping power or not enough friction in the material. First of all, there wouldn’t be a recall if it weren’t necessary. Second, three transmissions exploding is three too many.

Right now there are three cars in my garage with MT. (without getting into what I have driven, I am old). So, third, the other night I did a test with the Wrangler, coming home there is a long hill, not very steep. (To give you an idea, if I leave the cruise control on in 6 th gear and begin climbing at 60 mph, I reach the top at 50 mph.) Anyway, the test was, I was climbing at 60 mph, pedal to the floor, without letting go of the gas, I kicked the clutch in and out and the rpm went to 5000 and started coming down very slowly, the clutch slipping, I had to let go of the gas for it to catch. Came home, got another car, did the same thing, and as expected the rpm dropped immediately as the clutch engaged.

No, I am not concerned about my clutch exploding, I am driving my Jeep without worries, but I find ridiculous to say that this has to do with people not knowing how to drive MT. No other car has software trick to reduce torque and dumb drivers buy other cars other than Jeeps.

so I agree with whoever said above this is a weak clutch for the application. I doubt very much it will make 160,000 miles on the original clutch like the other SUV there in the garage. And that one has been abused off-roading and 4 teenagers learned on it how to drive. FCA is taking a cheap shortcut to mask a quality issue.

I believe yours has the problem. I'd strongly advise you to take it in ASAP. It should not be slipping like you describe. By that description, your clutch has worn prematurely, or it isn't fully engaging as it should.

Yours has a problem if it is slipping under those conditions. Mine does nothing of the sort. It grabs immediately and positively under all conditions. I'd get that looked at immediately. I'd bet it won't pass the FCA wear test. If I experienced that, I absolutely WOULD be worried about it. What you describe is not normal and is not functioning as designed, nor as it should. Again, I'd have that looked at ASAP.

See the FCA test, as prescribed in the first recall. If your engine does not stall immediately, the clutch is worn and that is the primary indicator that you have the problem that causes the clutch to wear prematurely by not fully engaging. IIRC, you apply the parking brake fully, (And make sure you have plenty of room in front of the Jeep, in case the parking brake were to fail), put it into 3rd gear (or 4th, I can't remember which) , run the engine to 4000rpm and dump the clutch. It only passes if the engine stalls IMMEDIATELY. If it slips at all and the stall is delayed, then the clutch is worn. You should be able to get it replaced under warranty and guess what? They will have to bleed the hydraulic system yet again, and properly. I'd have them replace the slave cylinder, too, and inspect the pressure plate for heat damage. If it stalls immediately during that test, then it won't slip under the conditions you describe, either. I'd also go around the dealership and alert Jeep directly, just to be sure they are aware.

I'd have that sucker at the dealership first thing in the morning, if it were mine.

Oh, and go to other forums to see what people say about their manual transmissions, including everything from Honda to BMW to Mercedes. Especially on European forums where there is a much higher percentage of manual transmission ownership. Plenty of clutch complaints of all kinds. Nothing unique to Jeep. And don't be too sure that other manufacturers don't have algorythms to retard power if excessive slip is detected. I doubt Jeep suddenly invented that idea.

But seriously, get yours looked at pronto.

 

[Torero]

I believe yours has the problem. I'd strongly advise you to take it in ASAP. It should not be slipping like you describe.

Yours has a problem if it is slipping under those conditions. Mine does nothing of the sort. It grabs immediately and positively under all conditions. I'd get that looked at immediately. I'd bet it won't pass the FCA wear test. If I experienced that, I absolutely WOULD be worried about it. What you describe is not normal and is not functioning as designed, nor as it should. Again, I'd have that looked at ASAP.

See the FCA test, as prescribed in the first recall. If your engine does not stall immediately, the clutch is worn and that is the primary indicator that you have the problem that causes the clutch to wear prematurely by not fully engaging. IIRC, you apply the parking brake fully, (And make sure you have plenty of room in front of the Jeep, in case the parking brake were to fail), put it into 3rd gear (or 4th, I can't remember which) , run the engine to 4000rpm and dump the clutch. It only passes if the engine stalls IMMEDIATELY. If it slips at all and the stall is delayed, then the clutch is worn. You should be able to get it replaced under warranty and guess what? They will have to bleed the hydraulic system yet again, and properly. I'd have them replace the slave cylinder, too, and inspect the pressure plate for heat damage. If it stalls immediately during that test, then it won't slip under the conditions you describe, either. I'd also go around the dealership and alert Jeep directly, just to be sure they are aware.

I'd have that sucker at the dealership first thing in the morning, if it were mine.

Hi Dan, I had the first recall done, I did the test myself, and it passed, took it to the dealer, and it passed, they put the ridiculous plastic sleeve on and sent me home. So it was good 3,000 miles ago, now is not.... hum. I may follow your advise. But first I’ll do the test myself again, that is a different test. I’ll let you know what they say.

 

[DanW]

Hi Dan, I had the first recall done, I did the test myself, and it passed, took it to the dealer, and it passed, they put the ridiculous plastic sleeve on and sent me home. So it was good 3,000 miles ago, now is not.... hum. I may follow your advise. I’ll let you know what they say.

Good move. Something has gone wrong. That test puts more torque to it than the hill climb you described. One thing they should have done at the recall is to bleed the system to make sure it was done right. Sounds like they may have blown that part of it and did it incorrectly. Especially if only 3k miles ago. Do alert Jeep independently of the dealer. They need to get a regional rep out there to look at it first hand. Maybe @JeepCares can help get one involved.

 

[sf5211]

What sucks is they’re still pushing out these inferior clutches on the brand new Jeeps and bandaiding it with a flash.
My guess is if they put out a heavier duty clutch they’d be admitting they made a mistake and people would lawyer up for the “safe” clutch.

 

[Toycrusher]

Yes, you can. It has happened. Bad driving habits could be a contributing factor, too. We won't know if that played into it because nobody ever admits to it.

My JK slave cylinder had a big problem. I was able to shift for a good while until all the fluid finally reached the bottom limit in the reservior, leaving ony enough for braking. Then I had to speed shift to nurse it to a dealership.

The slave cylinder was replaced and properly bled and its lived happily ever after. But the clutch was able to disengage when the pedal was depressed, but it took it all the way to the floor and it did not totally disengage, so shifts were pretty rough affairs until it ultimately would not shift anymore. But while it had fluid, I could most definitely shift.

I think you will agree that you clearly recognized when your fluid level reached the point that you could not fully disengage the clutch. You had physical resistance in the shift lever and audible grinding of the gears. Under those circumstances, you would be introducing heat into the system ONLY while at a stop, with the clutch in, and in gear. Nobody could ignore that for long enough AND sit at a lot of really really really long lights on gear to ever generate the 1100 degrees or whatever.

The reservoir hose recall was not connected to the spectacular failures. MOST JL owners have had their clutches perform as designed. When operating properly, they are quite robust and can handle a lot of abuse. I've not heard of anyone reaching the point of wearing out their clutch.

SOME though have had their clutches not perform as designed. Mine was one that did not engage both discs evenly which resulted in inconsistent engagement points and general frustration. Even malfunctioning like this, it handled heavy extended towing and off-roading without failure.

A few malfunctioned mechanically like mine but the discs stuck to the point they never fully engaged leading to extreme heat and failure.

All clutches of all makes and models eventually wear to the point of failure and inability to hold torque under load. Until now, that failure point resulted in lots of smoke, terrible smell, and loss of forward momentum. This Jeep clutch is the only I've heard of that can fracture and fly apart when reaching end-of-life. Yes, the software update will likely prevent such catastrophic failures when everyone's eventually reaches end-of-life, but I feel better knowing my clutch doesn't have that weakness to start with.

 

[sf5211]

I have a question. If I went with an aftermarket clutch like Centerforce will these dealerships still stick me with the software when I’m in for something else even if I show a receipt for an upgraded clutch?

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

I have a question. If I went with an aftermarket clutch like Centerforce will these dealerships still stick me with the software when I’m in for something else even if I show a receipt for an upgraded clutch?

Yes

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