At the end of my rope of steering issues.***FIXED!****

[Arterius2]

I is great that you have enough contacts and know more than most Jeep engineers,I missed if you had the steering box changed? I know that they went through Two different ones and there was not a difference at all, The cast iron steering box was not available at the time I had my Jeep. But my Jeep did this from day one, no lift, no mods at all. So now I see this and wonder if it has helped anyone with the issue like you and I and others were/are having. With over 400 plus pages of people complaining about their steering you would thing that Jeep would have taken it a little bit more seriously. If the EHPS software has nothing to do with the steering why are they constantly updating it and it is helping along with the new steering box. The first one might help understand how the system works, and if none of the electronics come into the operation of the power steering why does it overheat and throw a code and stop working until it cools down. Was any of this designed in hindsight for the steering lane assist (bliss) and if not why have a computer and an electric power steering pump? it does not rob that much power (hp) from the engine. And to be told time after time it`s a Jeep thing is just plain insulting. The first link will help people understand how the system is supposed to work. If the electric pump and computer have nothing to do with the steering what are they there for? I ended up giving up my Jeep because it spent more time at the dealer than in my own driveway. Did I see and drive a Jep JL with the basic power steering pump installed, yes and it corrected the majority of the issues and after driving their system with just their steering box and steering pump it was like night and day. You don`t have to go all out with a full Ram assist system but look at how many people have changed over and it is like driving a Jeep the way it is supposed to be driven. I was just not going to give in on a brand new Jeep Rubicon that cost me well over $52k and dump another $2300. to make it steer right like it should have from the factory! That was my decision and I hope that the problem is going to be resolved by the time my 392 Rubicon gets here or I`ll just keep my Raptor.
You certainly have the knowledge and expertise and the skill to fix a situation like this, but yet it seems to elude you and many others.The steering parts you have bought in hopes of resolving the issue have not done so, so what is left? steering box, pump and Body control module. Would you consider changing any of these to try to fix the problem? I know that my Raptor has the lane departure nannie that alerts you when you are drifting out of your lane and that is controlled by the body control module and other sensors that are involved with the BLISS system.
Thing that sucks most is that there are people who don't even know what a torque wrench is and they have not had one single steering issue, unlike you, me and all of the others. It took them several tries to fix my back camera from going to a blue screen. They replaced the camera played with the software and even ordered a new wiring harness for inside the tailgate and nothing worked until another tech followed the wire harness up to the connector up front and discovered that one pin was not set into the connector all of the way, once he pushed the wire into the connector it clicked in and locked in and the back up camera worked just fine.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...hydraulic_Closed-Center_Power_Steering_System

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...teering-and-telescoping-steering-column.1197/

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/JL...RAULIC-POWER-STEERING-(EHPS)-SYSTEM---ESS.pdf

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/attachments/tsb-08-074-20-pdf.356442/

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/attachments/tsb-08-003-21-pdf.422345/

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10184470-9999.pdf

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...els-like-it-has-play-and-drifts.3691/page-448

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Wrangler/2018/tsbs/tsb-08-074-20-rev-e.shtml

In his first post, he says he has the cast iron box, so yes.

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[Jeep&dogs]

In his first post, he says he has the cast iron box, so yes.

Thank you for taking the time to read.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

I is great that you have enough contacts and know more than most Jeep engineers,I missed if you had the steering box changed? I know that they went through Two different ones and there was not a difference at all, The cast iron steering box was not available at the time I had my Jeep. But my Jeep did this from day one, no lift, no mods at all. So now I see this and wonder if it has helped anyone with the issue like you and I and others were/are having. With over 400 plus pages of people complaining about their steering you would thing that Jeep would have taken it a little bit more seriously. If the EHPS software has nothing to do with the steering why are they constantly updating it and it is helping along with the new steering box. The first one might help understand how the system works, and if none of the electronics come into the operation of the power steering why does it overheat and throw a code and stop working until it cools down. Was any of this designed in hindsight for the steering lane assist (bliss) and if not why have a computer and an electric power steering pump? it does not rob that much power (hp) from the engine. And to be told time after time it`s a Jeep thing is just plain insulting. The first link will help people understand how the system is supposed to work. If the electric pump and computer have nothing to do with the steering what are they there for? I ended up giving up my Jeep because it spent more time at the dealer than in my own driveway. Did I see and drive a Jep JL with the basic power steering pump installed, yes and it corrected the majority of the issues and after driving their system with just their steering box and steering pump it was like night and day. You don`t have to go all out with a full Ram assist system but look at how many people have changed over and it is like driving a Jeep the way it is supposed to be driven. I was just not going to give in on a brand new Jeep Rubicon that cost me well over $52k and dump another $2300. to make it steer right like it should have from the factory! That was my decision and I hope that the problem is going to be resolved by the time my 392 Rubicon gets here or I`ll just keep my Raptor.
You certainly have the knowledge and expertise and the skill to fix a situation like this, but yet it seems to elude you and many others.The steering parts you have bought in hopes of resolving the issue have not done so, so what is left? steering box, pump and Body control module. Would you consider changing any of these to try to fix the problem? I know that my Raptor has the lane departure nannie that alerts you when you are drifting out of your lane and that is controlled by the body control module and other sensors that are involved with the BLISS system.
Thing that sucks most is that there are people who don't even know what a torque wrench is and they have not had one single steering issue, unlike you, me and all of the others. It took them several tries to fix my back camera from going to a blue screen. They replaced the camera played with the software and even ordered a new wiring harness for inside the tailgate and nothing worked until another tech followed the wire harness up to the connector up front and discovered that one pin was not set into the connector all of the way, once he pushed the wire into the connector it clicked in and locked in and the back up camera worked just fine.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...hydraulic_Closed-Center_Power_Steering_System

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...teering-and-telescoping-steering-column.1197/

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/JL...RAULIC-POWER-STEERING-(EHPS)-SYSTEM---ESS.pdf

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/attachments/tsb-08-074-20-pdf.356442/

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/attachments/tsb-08-003-21-pdf.422345/

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10184470-9999.pdf

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...els-like-it-has-play-and-drifts.3691/page-448

https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Wrangler/2018/tsbs/tsb-08-074-20-rev-e.shtml

I get it you are not a fan of the electronic steering system. I can tell because this is literally the 6-7 time you have referenced it on my post. I don’t agree with your thinking. I would be more than willing to listen if you had any other suggestions but if you want to keep insisting it’s related to the electronic system consider it noted and let’s move on.

Thanks for your input.

 

[richk225]

I get it you are not a fan of the electronic steering system. I can tell because this is literally the 6-7 time you have referenced it on my post. I don’t agree with your thinking. I would be more than willing to listen if you had any other suggestions but if you want to keep insisting it’s related to the electronic system consider it noted and let’s move on.

Thanks for your input.

No worries, but I am just wondering what you are going to do next? My Rubicon was not considered safe to drive and that was directly from a Jeep Service manager. My main concern is that I just ordered a new Jeep and do not want to have to go through any of the issues again. I`m not trying to start a war,I`m just hoping for a solution for you and the others who have the same issue. Like I said you have the talent and the tools that most people do not have access to and along with the personal connections. I don't know what I would do if it happened to me on my new Jeep?

You know as well as others following this steering issue that you shouldn't have to keep throwing money at something that should be correct from the factory. It would be a different story if you did some frame damage or something else, I have read where guys have wheeled their jeeps hard enough to bend an axle tube or the end of the axle tube and have to reinforce it with a gusset at the knuckle but it doesn't seem like you beat on your Jeep, plus you were able to check everything on the rack.

And I did take the time to read that you had changed you steering box and mine was changed twice without resolving the issue, so I don`t know if you went back to the old steering box or did you stick with the new one? It down right sucks to be at your end of the rope especially since you've done nothing to provoke the problem, and Jeeps are not cheap from the start it I feel for you putting all of the time and money into it and still having the issue. I went through the same and I hope that I never have to again and I hope that you find a fix for yours that may help others along the way

 

[Jeep&dogs]

No worries, but I am just wondering what you are going to do next? My Rubicon was not considered safe to drive and that was directly from a Jeep Service manager. My main concern is that I just ordered a new Jeep and do not want to have to go through any of the issues again. I`m not trying to start a war,I`m just hoping for a solution for you and the others who have the same issue. Like I said you have the talent and the tools that most people do not have access to and along with the personal connections. I don't know what I would do if it happened to me on my new Jeep?

You know as well as others following this steering issue that you shouldn't have to keep throwing money at something that should be correct from the factory. It would be a different story if you did some frame damage or something else, I have read where guys have wheeled their jeeps hard enough to bend an axle tube or the end of the axle tube and have to reinforce it with a gusset at the knuckle but it doesn't seem like you beat on your Jeep, plus you were able to check everything on the rack.

And I did take the time to read that you had changed you steering box and mine was changed twice without resolving the issue, so I don`t know if you went back to the old steering box or did you stick with the new one? It down right sucks to be at your end of the rope especially since you've done nothing to provoke the problem, and Jeeps are not cheap from the start it I feel for you putting all of the time and money into it and still having the issue. I went through the same and I hope that I never have to again and I hope that you find a fix for yours that may help others along the way

I have been trying to explain there are two distinct issues that the new Jeeps have.

1. A wander , a pull in one direction typically to the right, or a dead spot.

This typically is caused by the steering gearbox, usually caused by too much backlash in the gearbox. When the Jl first came out in 18 the very very EARLY 18’s did not have ANY of these issues. They DID a however during the first winter have some that the steering would completely lock up momentarily. This was because of the different expansion rate of the aluminum gear box outer case and the steel worm gear and recirculating bearings in them. When cold they would swell up at different rates and lock up because the tolerance was too tight.

Because of this FCA at FIRST started shipping Jl’s with the SAME box but had the manufacturer increase the backlash on the box to compensate. This ended up with very sloppy steering and a dead spot because the box was set too loose but it would not cause the lock up condition in the cold weather. They solved one problem but caused another.

To attempt to solve the NEW problem they increased the line pressure of the electronic power steering system to try to compensate for it. It didn’t work.

They THEN they had the manufacturer tighten the tolerance up slightly but not as tight as the original setting. This was now the third version of the aluminum steering box. This was a little better but still not great. They then released another update to the electronic power steering system again adjusting the line pressure, still not great.

Now they took the same aluminum box and changed the spool valve out internally and now they are on the last version of the aluminum box. This also required a change to the program of the electronic power steering system. Still did work.

last September they scrapped the aluminum box and went back to the cast iron box, basically the same box as the JK. The cast iron box doesn’t have the same issues with temp difference between the two different types of metal so the tolerance is set much tighter. This now created the need for another change to the electronic power steering system. This has solved the wandering,dead spot, pull issues in a vast majority of the cases. There have been a few people that still have issues with a dead spot but I would be willing to bet if they could get FCA to swap the box again with another steel box they would be happy. The boxes are all actually set by hand at the manufacturer so there is some human error and mechanical tolerance involved.

My Jeep really has NONE of these issues so there is nothing involving the gear box or the electronic power steering system that would correct the problem I am having.

So problem #2 the Jl has. And also the TJ, the full size trucks, even the Ford F-250. ANYTHING with a solid front axel has had and can have this issue. A wobble that is induced by hitting a bump, a shimmy from hitting a bump, even full on death wobble that you need to actually come to a complete stop to get it to stop.
THIS is what I have on my Jeep.

This is 100% a harmonic oscillation that happens because something is flexing, loose, warn out, or has some kind of play in it. It is typically masked by a steering dampener because it helps to absorb the oscillation and get it to stop.

Jeep has upgraded the track bar twice, once changing the materials the bushings were made of, making them stiffer, and once changing the wall thickness of the bar itself making that stiffer. They have also upgraded the steering stabilizer making it stiffer in an attempt to correct it. Adding heavy tires and wheels makes things worse.

Typically warn track bars, loose track bars,ball joints, Tie rod ends, and even unit bearings are the cause of this shimmy. Tires Have been known to cause it and sometimes even control arm bushings.
Play in any of these allows the harmonics to start.

Out of all of these I have not 100% ruled out the tires, the fact it does it more when cold leads me back down that path. Also the control arm bushing on the upper front is actually in the axle and not on the arm itself. After a discussion I had with someone else on the form last night he suggested I check these because his were shot after 20k. During this discussion I did actually remember when I did the lift I first installed it without the front spacers. When it was done it was lower in the front because the weight of the winch. I drove it for a few days like that and then pulled the front springs the next weekend and installed the 3/4” spacers to level the Jeep. What I didn’t do was loosen the upper arms and re torque them. I absolutely SHOULD have done this, by not doing it I had the bushings in a bind and the sleeve in them was twisted. I drove the Jeep for probably 1K before I loosened all the arms and re torqued all of them chasing the wobble.

I also talked through the timeline with my wife last night after this conversation and the first time I actually felt the wobble was the day AFTER a I did the spacers and forgot to allow the bushings to center.
There is a very good possibility the bushings got destroyed during that time and could honestly be my problem all along.

I washed the Jeep yesterday when I got back from the dealer, I parked it in my shop, hooked the battery tender up to it and turned the heat down in the building. I am honestly letting it sit until at least April when it gets warmer out here. Just to clear my head and I never drove any of my older Jeeps in the winter and I really didn’t want to drive this one either. I made a note to check the bushings and a few other things and put it on the dash to remind myself where I left off.

So that’s why I don’t believe it’s power steering related, and that’s my next steps come April.

 

[JDub11]

It's a longshot, but you may want to check the tolerances in the trackbar bolts. We fought all out death wobble on a ram 3500. New bushings 3 diff track bars. We ended up drilling out the trackbar mount holes and trsckbar sleeves used a larger shouldered bolt. Deathwobble gone.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

It's a longshot, but you may want to check the tolerances in the trackbar bolts. We fought all out death wobble on a ram 3500. New bushings 3 diff track bars. We ended up drilling out the trackbar mount holes and trsckbar sleeves used a larger shouldered bolt. Deathwobble gone.

I haven’t 100% ruled this out, it was a big issue on the Tj’s. I have done a dry steer test 1000’s of times and it shows no movement. But there is some slop between the track bar bushing sleeve and the bolt. It’s a 10.5 MM bolt I believe and it’s a fully threaded bolt. When I dig back into this thing I’m going to see how a standard shoulder bolt fits the sleeve and drill out the mounts to fit if it’s better.

Another thing I noticed the other night was you can physically pry the pitman arm and get 1 1/2” deflection in it without putting a lot of pressure on it. I was doing it with a 18” pry bar. The length of the drag link and the angle it is pushing on the pitman arm with the lift MAY be enough to make that arm deflect and cause some issues. I’m going to try prying on a few at a dealer lot and see if they all do that. It could be something going on with the material content whoever is making them is using. There is a possibility that could answer why some are having issues and others are fine.

 

[MntsRcalln]

You should really be on the design team for these things. Problem is, you have too much common sense and they wouldn't hire you.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

You should really be on the design team for these things. Problem is, you have too much common sense and they wouldn't hire you.

I don’t know about that! I obviously can’t get mine to drive right I don’t know I can get all of them too! Lol! Hopefully at some point I will get it figured out. I have a few new ideas to look into.

 

[rrsontag]

I just read this entire thread, and I feel your pain and frustration. I have the same problem. Started with a little shimmy in the steering wheel, and then a few episodes of full blown death wobble. Jeep has been to 4WP, and Sam's offraod here in Tulsa and neither offered much.

I am at point of wanting to move on from the jeep. I love it, but have started hating it more. I've been through a few trackbars, new Dana/Spicer ball joints, had the metalcloak steering setup, now have Synergy. Tried 3 different stabilizers. Have a frame side track bar Brace. All 8 Metalcloak control arms. Toe is at 1/16, caster is about 6.5. I have considered starting to put all the factory components back on to see if that will help. I have everything but the steering link and drag link... but I don't know patience is thin.

Anyway I'll be keeping an eye on your progress, and definitely pulling for you to figure it out.... I know it's really frustrating.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

I just read this entire thread, and I feel your pain and frustration. I have the same problem. Started with a little shimmy in the steering wheel, and then a few episodes of full blown death wobble. Jeep has been to 4WP, and Sam's offraod here in Tulsa and neither offered much.

I am at point of wanting to move on from the jeep. I love it, but have started hating it more. I've been through a few trackbars, new Dana/Spicer ball joints, had the metalcloak steering setup, now have Synergy. Tried 3 different stabilizers. Have a frame side track bar Brace. All 8 Metalcloak control arms. Toe is at 1/16, caster is about 6.5. I have considered starting to put all the factory components back on to see if that will help. I have everything but the steering link and drag link... but I don't know patience is thin.

Anyway I'll be keeping an eye on your progress, and definitely pulling for you to figure it out.... I know it's really frustrating.

Sounds like you have done pretty much the same things I have. I have a love hate relationship with this thing. In theory it should not be possible to still have it.

 

[rrsontag]

Oddly, I was on the cusp of buying the Reid Racing knuckles but now I'm hesitant worried it won't help, or perhaps make things worse. Sucks part swapping with no improvement. Really missing my JKUR right now.

Read issues with tires, and a few mentioning BFG k02. I'm running the 315/70r17 C rated. I may track down another local keeper for a tire swap test drive.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Oddly, I was on the cusp of buying the Reid Racing knuckles but now I'm hesitant worried it won't help, or perhaps make things worse. Sucks part swapping with no improvement. Really missing my JKUR right now.

Read issues with tires, and a few mentioning BFG k02. I'm running the 315/70r17 C rated. I may track down another local keeper for a tire swap test drive.

That’s the same tire I am running also. I know tires are not normally a cause but there are at least 4 people that have had very similar issues they could not resolve and we all happen to be running the same tire....

 

[rrsontag]

Well once the winter snow, and sub-arctic temperatures that randomly decided to invade Oklahoma leave, I will have my buddy bring his jeep over and I'll swap his tires out and see of that helps.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Well once the winter snow, and sub-arctic temperatures that randomly decided to invade Oklahoma leave, I will have my buddy bring his jeep over and I'll swap his tires out and see of that helps.

Kinda the same boat I am in here in Chicago. Right now it’s -12 windchills and they are calling for 6-8” of snow tonight. Possibly 10-12 depending on how it tracks.

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