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Clutch Recall (FCA W12 | 20V-124) on 2018-2020 JL Manuals [overheating clutch pressure plate]

Rcarpen22

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Well, I’m going in tonight to look at one that’s got the 8-speed. I really want a 6-speed, but the wife fell in love with the Jeeps on the test drive and she can’t drive a stick (and believe me, I’ve tried hard to teach her). So I guess I’m just going auto. I’ll still have my CJ5 with the T90:)
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Toycrusher

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That just doesn't sound like a manual transmission, to me. It sounds like a manu-matic/hybrid. Sounds really interesting and neat, but not what I was looking for in a manual.
It's what I think the 4xE should have been. Let us take advantage of Rubicon manual gearing for super low ratio, but give us electric power to crawl quietly, at least for short periods of time. Heck, for those long climbs where you really want to be able to get into 2nd, the electric motor would probably give enough torque for a 2nd gear start and the motor can kick in and help out once you reach that 5mph or so.
 

_olllllllo_

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A few things...
1) I can’t speak for all states but in NY when you go for a mandatory yearly inspection, they will know if you didn’t perform a recall so if you decide to just never go to the dealer, you’ll get nailed there and won’t pass inspection. At least in NY.

2) As far as never going back to the dealership. Let’s say my Sky One Touch breaks. I’m a damn plumber, I’m not attempting to fix that. Where would I go?

3) I have a good relationship with the shop manager at my dealership. Once this becomes official I will take a drive there for me and you folks and flat out ask if there’s any way around the de-tune. Including a new better clutch. If he says no. Then on my next repair, I’ll let them do it. If I notice any difference the next time I’m trailing or driving snow. I will research the competition and as long as they don’t have the same BS, see ya FCA. I’m not kidding and I’m not being pushed into an automatic.
The yearly inspections of vehicles is new to me and I only found out about when a buddy took his Tundra into the Massachusetts inspection and his muffler was loose. He was actually not supposed to drive it on the road. He got a local shop to weld the issue for $80.

Living in Arizona I see vehicles that are legal to drive that would never pass one of these inspections. Please see exhibit one, which the driver told me drove like a champ. Yes that is the rear bumper sticking through the area normally reserved for the rear window. I do like the duct tape holding the drivers side door shut. The second image shows the young man making the last little minor adjustments to make it drive even better.

IMG_1638.jpg


IMG_1636.jpg
 

DanW

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I made an interesting observation today with my Jeep this morning on the way to work. I pushed it HARD, with full throttle acceleration from most lights and fast shifts and some down-shifts, too. I worked it over pretty good. Then when I pulled into my parking space at work, I quickly shut it down and immediately hit the bell housing in 3 different spots with the infrared thermometer. The result? A whopping 105 degrees fahrenheit in all three spots. Granted it was very cold today, but if mine were having any issue, it surely would have conducted more heat than that to the bellhousing, especially the part of it that is literally millimeters from the clutch and pressure plate. And also after the hard drive I gave it. (Which was fun, btw, and reminded me once again why I love the manual and this Jeep so much.) I was honestly surprised it was that cool. And my commute is stop and go for about 35 minutes. It is the most clutch-intensive driving profile my Jeep does regularly. I'm going to do it again on the way home and check it after shutdown in a warm garage, but I'm expecting similar results.

I'll also do this in late March in Moab after some hard trail runs. I actually think it will be a similar situation. While there is a great deal of clutching, in low range, there is really almost no slipping, even on steep hills, due to the crawl ratio. I think only higher ambient temperature will make a difference.

Anyway, for now, I'm going to occasionally and somewhat randomly check the temperature of the bell housing, mostly during normal driving, which is usually spirited, although not nearly as hard as I pushed it today.

Oh, and one more test....my son. He's learning to drive a clutch and is doing pretty well, but still slips it more than I care to see. I'll take him out for some practice and sample the temp then, too. I am sure it will be higher, but still not enough to cause great concern.
 

OldGuyNewJeep

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The yearly inspections of vehicles is new to me and I only found out about when a buddy took his Tundra into the Massachusetts inspection and his muffler was loose. He was actually not supposed to drive it on the road. He got a local shop to weld the issue for $80.

Living in Arizona I see vehicles that are legal to drive that would never pass one of these inspections. Please see exhibit one, which the driver told me drove like a champ. Yes that is the rear bumper sticking through the area normally reserved for the rear window. I do like the duct tape holding the drivers side door shut. The second image shows the young man making the last little minor adjustments to make it drive even better.
 

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Toycrusher

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I made an interesting observation today with my Jeep this morning on the way to work. I pushed it HARD, with full throttle acceleration from most lights and fast shifts and some down-shifts, too. I worked it over pretty good. Then when I pulled into my parking space at work, I quickly shut it down and immediately hit the bell housing in 3 different spots with the infrared thermometer. The result? A whopping 105 degrees fahrenheit in all three spots. Granted it was very cold today, but if mine were having any issue, it surely would have conducted more heat than that to the bellhousing, especially the part of it that is literally millimeters from the clutch and pressure plate. And also after the hard drive I gave it. (Which was fun, btw, and reminded me once again why I love the manual and this Jeep so much.) I was honestly surprised it was that cool. And my commute is stop and go for about 35 minutes. It is the most clutch-intensive driving profile my Jeep does regularly. I'm going to do it again on the way home and check it after shutdown in a warm garage, but I'm expecting similar results.

I'll also do this in late March in Moab after some hard trail runs. I actually think it will be a similar situation. While there is a great deal of clutching, in low range, there is really almost no slipping, even on steep hills, due to the crawl ratio. I think only higher ambient temperature will make a difference.

Anyway, for now, I'm going to occasionally and somewhat randomly check the temperature of the bell housing, mostly during normal driving, which is usually spirited, although not nearly as hard as I pushed it today.

Oh, and one more test....my son. He's learning to drive a clutch and is doing pretty well, but still slips it more than I care to see. I'll take him out for some practice and sample the temp then, too. I am sure it will be higher, but still not enough to cause great concern.
A clutch is very much like a disc brake. Except it defaults to closed instead of open. A panic start from 100mph can get a rotor red hot. If you revved to redline and slipped the clutch in 6th until you reached highway speed, you would also probably get it red hot.

In normal driving? hard to do
 

EMS

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I made an interesting observation today with my Jeep this morning on the way to work. I pushed it HARD, with full throttle acceleration from most lights and fast shifts and some down-shifts, too. I worked it over pretty good. Then when I pulled into my parking space at work, I quickly shut it down and immediately hit the bell housing in 3 different spots with the infrared thermometer. The result? A whopping 105 degrees fahrenheit in all three spots. Granted it was very cold today, but if mine were having any issue, it surely would have conducted more heat than that to the bellhousing, especially the part of it that is literally millimeters from the clutch and pressure plate. And also after the hard drive I gave it. (Which was fun, btw, and reminded me once again why I love the manual and this Jeep so much.) I was honestly surprised it was that cool. And my commute is stop and go for about 35 minutes. It is the most clutch-intensive driving profile my Jeep does regularly. I'm going to do it again on the way home and check it after shutdown in a warm garage, but I'm expecting similar results.

I'll also do this in late March in Moab after some hard trail runs. I actually think it will be a similar situation. While there is a great deal of clutching, in low range, there is really almost no slipping, even on steep hills, due to the crawl ratio. I think only higher ambient temperature will make a difference.

Anyway, for now, I'm going to occasionally and somewhat randomly check the temperature of the bell housing, mostly during normal driving, which is usually spirited, although not nearly as hard as I pushed it today.

Oh, and one more test....my son. He's learning to drive a clutch and is doing pretty well, but still slips it more than I care to see. I'll take him out for some practice and sample the temp then, too. I am sure it will be higher, but still not enough to cause great concern.
...just an observation here: The heat generated by the friction material does not have an easy conduction path to the bell housing since they are not directly connected. So any temperature increase due to the hot pressure plate would either be by convected air inside the bell or by radiation, certainly not as efficient as direct conduction.
 

Blue Ridge

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I kinda have the off feeling that we own the last manuals that will ever come off the jeep line.
Oh, I sure hope not. I’ve been saving up for a new or newish Wrangler JL and paused my hobbies for 3 years. Every new Jeep I had favorited to choose from is off the websites now. Wonder if I can still special-order?
 

Torero

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...just an observation here: The heat generated by the friction material does not have an easy conduction path to the bell housing since they are not directly connected. So any temperature increase due to the hot pressure plate would either be by convected air inside the bell or by radiation, certainly not as efficient as direct conduction.
Which brings back the question how is the recall fix going to measure that temperature?
 

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Jebiruph

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Which brings back the question how is the recall fix going to measure that temperature?
Compare engine RPM to the driveshaft RPM adjusted for the current transmission gear and if it's slipping, multiply each extra revolution by a temperature build up constant and adjust for cooling over time.
 

Toycrusher

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Compare engine RPM to the driveshaft RPM adjusted for the current transmission gear and if it's slipping, multiply each extra revolution by a temperature build up constant and adjust for cooling over time.
Since there is no gear position sensor, that would only work if cruise control was active and there was a change in time of rpm vs speed
 

EMS

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Compare engine RPM to the driveshaft RPM adjusted for the current transmission gear and if it's slipping, multiply each extra revolution by a temperature build up constant and adjust for cooling over time.
The question I've always had, even back during the initial recall, is whether these fire events were during long drives on highways, where clutch disengagements are few, or during stop-and-go inner city traffic, where normal operation of the vehicle requires frequent clutch operation.
 

Jebiruph

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Compare engine RPM to the driveshaft RPM adjusted for the current transmission gear and if it's slipping, multiply each extra revolution by a temperature build up constant and adjust for cooling over time.
Since there is no gear position sensor, that would only work if cruise control was active and there was a change in time of rpm vs speed
Good point, maybe with the amount of slippage needed for the excessive heat build up, the actual gear may not matter or could be estimated from other parameters.
 

neil

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I spend a lotta time around a farrier. He has forges in his trucks. They don’t even approach 1100.

sorry-I can feel that 15’ off no way a bell is at 100 while the plates anywhere over 1k

jeeps are not benzs wthat much insulation pretty sure u would notice in cab
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