Help?! 2020 JLU Fishtailed and Rolled From Potential Clutch and ABS System Failure

[calemasters]

if the front driveshaft rotates in 2wd then why add the cost and complications of the FAD? Front axle disconnect?
Full time 4wd (auto4wd) is and has been an option on rubicons in europe and now in the US.

The FAD was added on the JL for increased fuel economy and general reduction of NVH.

You got me. I was not aware Jeep added the FAD to the JL. My JK did not have this. You are correct. Sometimes I learn something everyday.

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[Shots]

..... If you take it to the dealer, they will likely clear all the recorded accident data, if any still exists. ....

Any data related to the specific crash stored in the ACM will be gone. Other codes such service codes may still be held.

You will want those codes from the airbag control module. That is where the crash event codes are stored. Since you said it happened at a near stop, it may not have triggered an event.

Since the airbags didn't deploy this likely isn't going to be a locked event. Since the vehicle was driven home any following events such as pot holes, abrupt movements, etc, will have overwritten the data. With a 2 hour drive it's save to say that even if FCA's modules stored 2 events (which I don't think they do, but I'd have to check with Bosch) it will probably have been overwritten.
Plus if the power was on when they righted the Jeep, the impact of it "falling" back onto its tires will definitely store as an even overwriting the previous one.

.....Sometimes I wish my Rubicon had the full time automatic Selec-Trac® transfer case instead of the Rock-Trac NV241.

Us Sahara owners will be sure to remember this and bring it up repeatedly.

OP.
I know most people have said the rear tires must have locked up, but I actually suspect the opposite. It would seem the front tires either locked, or were going considerably slower than the rear tires.
Think of it this way. When you do a burn-out the rear tires are rolling fast and the front tires are stopped or slowly rolling. The tire marks you see from a burn-out are typically an S-curve or wave. That's because the faster moving back tires are trying to overtake the slower/stopped front tires.
By comparison, if your rear tires were locked or rolling slowly, the faster moving front tires could simply drag the back end forward. Using the burn-out example think about the tire marks you see from FWD car. They're straight. That's because the front tires just drag the back tires along behind them.

So to me, it sounds like the front tires locked up, or slowed briefly as the 4wd engaged. I don't want to be "that guy", but my suspicion is that the crash resulted from when/where you engaged 4wd. Yes you can engage it at speed, and yes you can engage it in slippery conditions. Not that you did something the Jeep isn't capable of, but rather doing it when/where you did wasn't ideal.

As for the rollover. That had nothing to do with the 4wd system. That's undoubtedly a result of an interaction with an elevated surface (such as curb, or snow mound) along the roadside, or your tires getting traction while the Jeep is moving laterally. Based on the picture, I'd say the mound of snow elevated the passenger side and momentum did the rest.

 

[track.n.trail]

No offense but this is another reason why I like the good old fashioned manual transmission. Step on that left pedal and the drivetrain is disengaged.

If the transfer case was at fault for locking the front or rear wheels up when shifting into 4H, pushing in the clutch on a manual transmission wouldn't have had any effect.

 

[Fsttanks]

Dude, I think it's time you get a new vehicle. Seriously. I will not stay with a vehicle that shuts off on me when I'm driving. Happened in my Renegade when I was pulling out of a shopping mall onto a crowded road. Thing just shut off. I was done.

Working on it!! Bank wants their money regardless of how dangerous a vehicle is and one has to wait for the lawyers to work things out. Until then myself and others with these issues still need to go about our lives and that includes driving. It’s not as simple as just driving into a dealership and trading in on another vehicle. I wish it was, but it’s not.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

It’s not as simple as just driving into a dealership and trading in on another vehicle. I wish it was, but it’s not.

Actually it is that simple. And less hassle and expense in the long run.

 

[rallydefault]

Working on it!! Bank wants their money regardless of how dangerous a vehicle is and one has to wait for the lawyers to work things out. Until then myself and others with these issues still need to go about our lives and that includes driving. It’s not as simple as just driving into a dealership and trading in on another vehicle. I wish it was, but it’s not.

Yea, it's messed up how long it takes to get out of dangerous vehicles. Good luck!

 

[Ridgerunner542]

Hey folks,

I bought my JLU Willy's in the summer of last year. I've started taking my Jeep up to my local mountain for snowboarding days. I used to live in upstate NY and I am used to variable road conditions. 3 weeks ago when I was using the 4WD system (in snow) it made an odd noise and the check engine light came on. It also seemed like it would not shift into higher gears. It showed a "Service Trans" in the console errors. Took it into the dealership and they returned it to me the next morning. The notes in the invoice said that per Chrysler protocol, they just cleared the codes and gave it back to me after test driving it and not seeing any check engine lights come back on. Told me if it happened again, then they would consider looking at fixes.

Yesterday I was driving the same drive back up to the mountain, the roads had a pretty mild amount of snow/slush mix so I decided to turn on my 4WD High. The second I shifted the transfer case it felt like my wheels locked up and the Jeep started to fishtail wildly. I tried to mange the movement but couldn't control it. The jeep bounced softly into the snow bank on the right shoulder and the my Willy's ROLLED onto the drivers side and I quickly climbed out. No glass broke, no airbags deployed, no injuries to me or anyone else (that's the good news).

I was doing a little internet surfing this morning and came across this article. You might not be the only person with rear axle lockup. This was just from an article I read but apparently there is a thread on the gladiator forum about this particular persons incident. Gladiatrix is the user name.
I tried reading through it to see what part was replaced on the rear but I couldn’t get through all the 23 pages of bickering.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...y-warranty-after-taking-it-through-mud.38337/

 

[NBB]

I wasn't doing anything weird when transitioning, I used it exactly as intended and how I've used other part-time 4X4 systems.

This is not really an answer to the question people are asking - causing me to assume you know you were doing something wrong.

 

[SirMagnus89]

I was doing a little internet surfing this morning and came across this article. You might not be the only person with rear axle lockup. This was just from an article I read but apparently there is a thread on the gladiator forum about this particular persons incident. Gladiatrix is the user name.
I tried reading through it to see what part was replaced on the rear but I couldn’t get through all the 23 pages of bickering.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...y-warranty-after-taking-it-through-mud.38337/

The axles of the Willys and the Rubicon are not the same, The Rubi has an electronically activated locker, where as the Willys has a conventional Limited Slip, if equipped.

 

[Iggy]

Did you lock the rear differential, by chance?

The Jeep is not easy to drive when it's sliding as the center of gravity is about 1.5' or higher from the dirt. That causes the pendulum affect to be much greater than a regular car. Much greater!

Keep steering where you want it to go, be gentle on the throttle, steering wheel, and brakes, and go into 4WD before you need it.

 

[jdubya421]

This thread is wild.

I feel like its obvious that there was a mechanical or electrical failure with OP's Jeep and everyone is just: "ive dun driven mor miles backerds than u have ferwerds and u did it rong".

 

[Russ Chung]

Final Update: Thanks again for all the thoughtful suggestions and support friends. I was able to pull some codes from the vehicle post-incident that indicate potential clutch failure and electronic failure with the ABS system. I'm not a tech at all, just merely looking up the codes that showed up. I'm confident it will get sorted out eventually, and very happy to be uninjured. Thanks again and stay safe everyone
...

Also in the notes from the service before this happened were a bunch of codes (again this is what they just cleared before returning to me):

"the codes that i found in the system reads:
TCM P0721-00 Output Shaft Speed Sensor Circuit Performance-Stored
TCM P0607-00 ECU Internal Performance-Stored
PCM U0418 Implausible Data Received From Brake System Control
Module 1 Stored
ABS U0402-00 Implausible Data Received From TCM-Stored
DTCM U0402-00 Implausible Data Received From TCM-Stored"

Now it makes sense. It had NOTHING to do with the transfer case. The codes that you found in the system indicate problems with the Electronic Stability Control System (ESC) and the Traction Control System (TCS). When you shifted from 2Hi to 4Hi, the computer normally adjusts the settings for the Electronic Stability Control (ESC) and Traction Control System (TCS) systems (see page 162 of the Owner's Manual). Because of the problems identified in the codes, the computer may have improperly locked the brakes, which, due to the slippery conditions, caused you to skid and flop over. The dealer may not have been able to duplicate the problem because it may have been intermittent, or because the test drive was on dry pavement.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Now it makes sense. It had NOTHING to do with the transfer case. The codes that you found in the system indicate problems with the Electronic Stability Control System (ESC) and the Traction Control System (TCS). When you shifted from 2Hi to 4Hi, the computer normally adjusts the settings for the Electronic Stability Control (ESC) and Traction Control System (TCS) systems (see page 162 of the Owner's Manual). Because of the problems identified in the codes, the computer may have improperly locked the brakes, which, due to the slippery conditions, caused you to skid and flop over. The dealer may not have been able to duplicate the problem because it may have been intermittent, or because the test drive was on dry pavement.

Exactly what I said, there's no mechanical failure that would cause wheel lock up from the transmission, transfer case, or even the locker that would be temporary. A chipped gear or busted Sprague could cause lock up, but it would be permanent damage. Locking the locker on the road may cause drifting (some of us do that on purpose), but it wouldn't cause wheel lock up as described. This was an abs failure all the way. For whatever reason the traction control applied the brakes to one wheel hard enough to cause a loss of control.

 

[LooselyHeldPlans]

Told me if it happened again, then they would consider looking at fixes.

This makes my goddamn blood boil.

My dealership said the same thing when I reported my TC slipping out of 4 low into neutral after being properly seated for minutes. I was using 4 low on a mountain pass to engine break down a 20 degree incline with a 3000’ drop on one side. Damn thing just popped out if gear sending me rocketing down the mountain.

My dealer said they couldn't replicate the issue (no shit, did you recreate the circumstance??) and therefore there must not be a problem... So just let us know if it happens again.

Like OP, if it happens again it could cost a life. I'm sick of Jeep “service”.

 

[SirMagnus89]

This makes my goddamn blood boil.

My dealership said the same thing when I reported my TC slipping out of 4 low into neutral after being properly seated for minutes. I was using 4 low on a mountain pass to engine break down a 20 degree incline with a 3000’ drop on one side. Damn thing just popped out if gear sending me rocketing down the mountain.

My dealer said they couldn't replicate the issue (no shit, did you recreate the circumstance??) and therefore there must not be a problem... So just let us know if it happens again.

Like OP, if it happens again it could cost a life. I'm sick of Jeep “service”.

OK, this isn't just JEEP. This is every single car dealer. The issue is if they cannot replicate it then they do not know where to look. You cant just say "My transfer case slipped out this one time i used it." If you don't know what is broken and it cannot be replicated then how are they expected to know what to order and swap out? They aren't just going to order all these parts and swap them out nilly willy.

I get it is frustrating and i have been on the receiving end of the "We cant replicate it" discussion many times. But it is essentially chasing a ghost untill it can be replicated on command.

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