Sponsored

My 2020 Jeep Rubicon “JLUR” could have killed me and my family this weekend.

Whaler27

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alex
Joined
Jul 1, 2020
Threads
48
Messages
1,903
Reaction score
3,758
Location
Oregon
Vehicle(s)
2019 JL, 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Altitude Ecodiesel, 2005 Mustang GT, 2018 Ford Raptor, 2018 BMW R1200GSA, 2020 Honda Monkeybikes (2), 1972 Honda CT-70, 1980 Honda CT-70,
Occupation
Saving the world :-)
While fixing the grounds on that TJ I found many loose and some corroded on a 1 year old vehicle but after I fixed all of those issues I never had a repeat and I drove the TJ for 10 years
I wonder if this could be caused by a bad connection or a short too.

I had a similar experience with a new motorhome that was build on a Ford F-450 chassis. We experienced all kinds of crazy failures including the transmission intermittently locking in reverse. The service manuals required a series of part replacements, each of which produced a brief period of correct operation (because the computer was being reset each time they worked on it). On the third trip into the same shop about 250 miles from home they found a wire that was shorting out against the frame and causing the craziness.

Glad you and the family are okay. Please keep us posted.
Sponsored

 

Whiskey 13

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
274
Reaction score
369
Location
North West Florida
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep JLU Black Rubicon, LOD Signature Mid Width Bumper, Smittybilt Gen 3 12000 Lb. Winch Syn. Rope, Teraflex 1.5" Leveling Kit, Weather Tech Form Fit Mats, ROAM MK 3 Frame Mounted Rock Rails
I wonder if this could be caused by a bad connection or a short too.

I had a similar experience with a new motorhome that was build on a Ford F-450 chassis. We experienced all kinds of crazy failures including the transmission intermittently locking in reverse. The service manuals required a series of part replacements, each of which produced a brief period of correct operation (because the computer was being reset each time they worked on it). On the third trip into the same shop about 250 miles from home they found a wire that was shorting out against the frame and causing the craziness.

Glad you and the family are okay. Please keep us posted.
It is truly amazing the issues you can have with a bad ground, just think about how many house fires are caused by a loose ground connection
 
OP
OP

Fsttanks

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
438
Reaction score
945
Location
Palm Springs Ca.
Vehicle(s)
2013 JKU / 2014 JK / 2020 JLUR
Nuts. How many miles on the Jeep? and dont forget to update once you find out wth is going on. How did you stop it with the e-brake? I mean if you wouldve set the e-brake at highway speeds it wouldve meam major disaster. You must have been going really slow. Mechanical brakes and steering at low speeds can be quite the workout.
“E” brake = emergency brake aka parking brake. Something I was taught years ago as a last resort. You just don’t yank it up you have to slowly feel it grab and ride it up applying more and more force. I am sure it is was damaged in the process.

Jeep has just over 4000 miles on it.
 

D60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Threads
39
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
1,827
Location
CO
Vehicle(s)
JL
Don’t ask me I did not design or build them. I do not know how the electrical system integrate with them. It’s just how it was explained to me. They wording was electrical assisted braking.

They are computer control and with no computer you have NO brakes to speak off!! That is the point regardless of how they work.
Um, ok? Good luck. Truly sorry you had issues with your family in the vehicle.
 

Sponsored

Dan M.

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
602
Reaction score
1,339
Location
Albany NY
Vehicle(s)
2020 sport (2 door)
I'm glad you and your family weren't harmed when this occured. I wish I could say this is a Jeep problem, but the proliferation of computers in vehicles can cause this to happen to any vehicle. My friend had a brand new F-150 ( I think it was a 2017). He was driving at night when all electronics (including the headlights) failed. Same thing happened a few times. The dealer wouldn't do anything about it until they took if for a drive and had it happened to them.
 

Whiskey 13

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
274
Reaction score
369
Location
North West Florida
Vehicle(s)
2020 Jeep JLU Black Rubicon, LOD Signature Mid Width Bumper, Smittybilt Gen 3 12000 Lb. Winch Syn. Rope, Teraflex 1.5" Leveling Kit, Weather Tech Form Fit Mats, ROAM MK 3 Frame Mounted Rock Rails
One thing I hate on these new vehicles is it shutting down at a stop light or stop sign. I always disable that system when I start up, it puts wat too much stress on the battery and starter around town and battery voltage is critical with these newer computer driven rigs. I am putting a jumper on mine to permanently disable that feature.
 

DanW

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dan
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Threads
159
Messages
8,404
Reaction score
11,073
Location
Indiana
Vehicle(s)
21 JLUR, 18JLUR, 08JKUR, 15 Renegade, 04 WJ
Vehicle Showcase
2
This is a STRONG WARNING to all Jeep JL owners!
3C3EE3B8-D2DA-486D-A813-4B3E154E5553.jpeg


This weekend while taking a short family trip in our five month old 2020 Jeep JLUR we had TWO COMPLETE computer failures both without ANY warning.

The first was at a busy intersection the engine shut down and ALL the instruments and infotainment system went crazy included the SOS which started sending alerts that could not be stopped. I had NO ability to activate the hazards lights to warn other vehicles behind me or any ability to restart the engine. Twice we were almost rear ended so when it was safe enough I had my family exit to safety. My Jeep remained immobile in the intersection for almost 10 mins. At which point the computer system reset and I was able to move the Jeep to a safe location. After the incident there were no engine warning light of any kind and all the system were back to work as normal.

Thinking this was a one off glitch we continued on our trip. Well that was a huge mistake. Not much more then 10 min later while driving at freeway speeds there was another COMPLETE computer failure and total loss of ALL vehicle control. The steering all but froze up, engine was sputtering and loosing power worst the brakes were NOT working! All this on top of the other instruments going crazy. I managed with some effort to muscle the steering wheel enough to get the Jeep over to the extremely small “emergency lane” but then had NO brakes to stop with and our speed at this time was around 50mph. I was literally standing on the brake pedal and it was having almost no effect. I ended up having to use the “E” brake to stop our Jeep!

Once stopped, again NO “hazard lights” could be engaged and NOTHING worked! So now we were half in and half out of the traffic lanes. I carry flares and being this had just happen a few minutes early I was thinking about them so I deployed them to warn traffic and hopefully not get rear ended by a high speed passerby.

15 or so minutes later the computer system once again reset? I was then able to move the Jeep off the freeway. This time the “check engine” light was on. Seeing this I though REALLY NO F’N KIDDING.

Needless to say Jeep had a call from me and I have filed a report with the NTSB. Had either one of these incident occurred just a short time early as we had driven through a high speed (70mph) section of winding mountain roads I would not have been able to steer or brake sufficiently enough to have avoided a major crash. Fortunately I am a trained EVOC driver with decades of high speed and off-road skills to draw from. Had my wife or son or anyone with far less experience “behind the wheel” been driving when the last incident happen there is no way they could have safety made it off to the side of the road. Hell I was shaking and almost S**T my pants. I have had failure of steering and brakes before while on the job in other vehicles, but NEVER all the major systems at the same time let alone while at 70mph.

In more then 35 years of drive both personally and as a professional I have never been scared of driving a vehicle until today. I will never trust my JLUR again until Jeep can 100% in writing guarantee me this will NEVER happen again!!!

I don’t think the majority of JL owner actually realizes just how much of their Jeep is controlled solely by the one computer with no backup and that they have no real control over their vehicles except which the computer grants them. So be aware if your computer fails you are just along for the ride. And it’s a scary one!!!

P.S. Yes I am aware there have been other threads on similar topics. But none state the real danger involved. The Jeep was towed to my local dealerships where it will sit until ?. It is not a battery issue as both show full charges and voltage.

Your thoughts and constructive input are welcome.
We had a 96 Toyota 4Runner that shut down completely in the middle of an intersection. Same deal. No hazards, no nothing. Cold dead. It took at least 10 minutes before it came back to life. It never did it again, but scared the shit out of my wife, for sure.
 
OP
OP

Fsttanks

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
438
Reaction score
945
Location
Palm Springs Ca.
Vehicle(s)
2013 JKU / 2014 JK / 2020 JLUR
NO, No, no, emergency brake is a big handle by your right that is connected to the rear by a cable.
That’s way I used it to help slow the Jeep. The main brakes were not effectively engaging. Computer wasn’t working hence the main brakes were not working. I used the “E” brake to get some braking action. It’s old school but it worked.
 

Oncorhynchus

Well-Known Member
First Name
Moishe
Joined
Aug 30, 2020
Threads
49
Messages
662
Reaction score
865
Location
San Jose, CA
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU Sahara Sting Gray 3.6L
Point is NO computer effectively means NO brakes.
If this is an accurate statement then this is truly a terrible design flaw. I have led several teams over my career that were responsible for designing medical devices and the software (applications, infrastructure, & real time control) that runs them. It may not always be possible to block sabotage or prevent malfeasance (https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/) but software and hardware should generally be designed to fail safely in the event of loss of control if lives are at stake. [off topic: but knowing what I know about software and machine vision and artificial intelligence along with Elon Musk’s proclivity to cutting corners and lying to the public, I decided a while back that I will not buy a Tesla as long as Musk is running the company].

Please keep us informed. No product is free of defects and computer programs built by non-geniuses can easily reach a level of complexity that is extremely difficult for even the most genius human to analyze for vulnerabilities. I’m especially curious about the response from NTSB. Did you contact NHTSA too?
 

Sponsored

mnjeeper

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Oct 5, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
936
Reaction score
1,676
Location
MN
Vehicle(s)
98 TJ, 2021 JLUR
One thing I hate on these new vehicles is it shutting down at a stop light or stop sign. I always disable that system when I start up, it puts wat too much stress on the battery and starter around town and battery voltage is critical with these newer computer driven rigs. I am putting a jumper on mine to permanently disable that feature.
If you have etorque you don't need to worry about stressing the battery or starter. Regular ESS, I can see the concern.
 

Windshieldfarmer

Well-Known Member
First Name
Randy
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
1,454
Reaction score
2,066
Location
Wichita, Ks
Vehicle(s)
2015 JKU, 2020 JlU on order
Did it throw any codes? If nothing is stored, it’s your words against FCA unless you recorded something... what a scary situation....it sounds like a bad ground or a hack...
 

GtX

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
1,913
Reaction score
3,010
Location
Illinois
Vehicle(s)
2020 JLUR 3.0D
Occupation
Working for the man.
Vehicle Showcase
1
Following because these threads are like watching an old movie again from your childhood.
 
OP
OP

Fsttanks

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
438
Reaction score
945
Location
Palm Springs Ca.
Vehicle(s)
2013 JKU / 2014 JK / 2020 JLUR
Did it throw any codes? If nothing is stored, it’s your words against FCA unless you recorded something... what a scary situation....it sounds like a bad ground or a hack...
The second time it activated the “check engine” light which went out before it was towed to the dealership. So there should be some code history.

I am not saying if something was or was not recorded. I am waiting to see what FCA says.

I did see the vehicle history screen while at the dealerships (it’s not been into a dealership since I acquired it) when the service writer was doing the intake paperwork and there was A LOT of red and yellow lines?

Yes I have concern that FCA can download vehicles history stats and upload new system update what is to say they can’t whip the entire system. So yes I have a backup if that is even suspected.
Sponsored

 
 



Top