What aftermarket battery are you running?

[WranglerMan]

I've been researching it. Current JLUR is 1K miles, but with what I use it for, I am not really trusting of the little battery especially with our weather changes.

when did you have yours installed? 6cyl? You have the aux buttons and 240 alternator? you have much aux needs? Any issues so far?

My Genesis system has only been in a few days but from my understanding of talking to Ryan and @TTEChris from Tank Customs who did the install they have seen issues with the bypass install even with the ESS negative removed but not sure of the particular issues other than having starting issues, there are guys like @Jebiruph that are more well versed on this than I am but I’m thinking if you have the bypass installed and ESS negative removed you are pulling off the main battery and putting all load on one battery.

I have a Smart Stop/Start module installed so I never use ESS, after chatting with Shane from Genesis and if I understand it correctly there system uses two batteries ( mine are Full River 750-25’s ) that have good specs here:

The primary crank battery is connected with the aux battery and when the Jeep is running the Genesis relay checks the charge on the main crank battery and if if sees 13.2 volts the Cole Hersee relay opens and current flows to the aux battery to charge both with the alternator and it’s treated as one big battery, when you shut your Jeep off and say run radio, lights etc... power is pulled from both batteries then once the main crank gets to 12.7 volts it isolates it and pulls from the aux for as long as it can so you will always have 12.7 to crank the engine then once running the process starts over and charges the main to 13.2 and then the relay open to charge the aux..

Its just a really cool design and I hope it provides me with many years of trouble free service, it’s not cheap but I don’t have to worry

Here is info from them, I’m not associated with Genesis at all just a customer and @Genesis Offroad has been super with there responses

For me it’s like having a built in jump pack as if you do run your main down and have power left on the aux battery you can press a jumper button and it connects both together for 1 min to basically give you a jump start so you won’t be stranded.

There are several relays in the Genesis desi but they appare have a pretty decent warranty but like anything on these new vehicles electronic issues do happen

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[neil]

My Genesis system has only been in a few days but from my understanding of talking to Ryan and @TTEChris from Tank Customs who did the install they have seen issues with the bypass install even with the ESS negative removed but not sure of the particular issues other than having starting issues, there are guys like @Jebiruph that are more well versed on this than I am but I’m thinking if you have the bypass installed and ESS negative removed you are pulling off the main battery and putting all load on one battery.

I have a Smart Stop/Start module installed so I never use ESS, after chatting with Shane from Genesis and if I understand it correctly there system uses two batteries ( mine are Full River 750-25’s ) that have good specs here:

The primary crank battery is connected with the aux battery and when the Jeep is running the Genesis relay checks the charge on the main crank battery and if if sees 13.2 volts the Cole Hersee relay opens and current flows to the aux battery to charge both with the alternator and it’s treated as one big battery, when you shut your Jeep off and say run radio, lights etc... power is pulled from both batteries then once the main crank gets to 12.7 volts it isolates it and pulls from the aux for as long as it can so you will always have 12.7 to crank the engine then once running the process starts over and charges the main to 13.2 and then the relay open to charge the aux..

Its just a really cool design and I hope it provides me with many years of trouble free service, it’s not cheap but I don’t have to worry

Here is info from them, I’m not associated with Genesis at all just a customer and @Genesis Offroad has been super with there responses

I've watched the install video, and I don't think the price is out of line. What I did get from the install video is that everything that is normally ran from the fuse box continues to pull from the crank battery until that 12.7 point is reached, then from the aux. I do like the terminals for wench and cb on the aux battery, this looks like hookups are simple.

The install does not look too difficult, I have the tools....might be a good weekend project.

I've been out in the middle of nowhere with a battery that was less than 18 months old and was trickle charged that would not crank...this year actually (not in a jeep). It happens. While I doubt that this can prevent everything, it does add some redundancy.

 

[Redbaron73]

I've watched the install video, and I don't think the price is out of line. What I did get from the install video is that everything that is normally ran from the fuse box continues to pull from the crank battery until that 12.7 point is reached, then from the aux.

I took the exact opposite from the video. The fuse items will run from the cranking battery 100% of the time, and from both when above 12.7v. This is one reason I am not jumping onto the Genesis, as I do not use accessories other than those powered by my 6 aux wires (part of tow package). I don't want to run all new power accessory wires, and lose my stock aux buttons etc.

If it worked the way you described, I would be all in. Most of those accessories run off the small start stop battery, which would make it advantageous to upgrade that battery to a full size and keep the full-size start stop.

I am told this doesn't happen because of one of the wires being too short. I need to investigate this more.

 

[Gee-pah]

Hi All:

I've read through the thread and hope I can answer some questions and clear things up.

Whats the benefit of the dual battery?

Hey Ryan:

This question needs to be answered in the context of how those batteries are connected. I don't think this is your question (i.e. I think you were referring to the dual batteries of a Genesis like product) but I'll answer it in relation to both the stock JL (3.6L at least) and Genesis.

In the stock rig the second ESS/Aux battery preserves the main one to provide the ox's load of cranking the JL after an ESS event, despite the fact that both batteries energize the crank. The 2018 design of the system though was such that the vehicle would not cold crank if the ESS/Aux battery lacked sufficient charge, even though the main battery could be fully charged, and that this could crank (provided the ESS/Aux battery test is passed) is effected by both batteries.

I think FCA, to save $, stole the logic from a post ESS crank where there is never issue with the ESS/Aux battery failing this test because:

1) The ESS event would have never occurred if the ESS/Aux lacked sufficient charge, and
2) The ESS event would have ended prematurely if during the event the ESS/Aux battery lost sufficient charge.

There is a flash for 2018's that will allow them to cold crank if either battery has charge, and it seems that this logic has been incorporated into 2019 3.6L's and later. Talk is that the first attempt at cranking fails, a diagnostic code is thrown to indicate a bad ESS/Aux battery, and that subsequent cranks are done on the main battery--I suspect disabling ESS until the ESS/Aux battery is dealt with and the diagnostic code cleared.

If your asking about the dual battery of the Genesis system the benefit is that the two (base) batteries of the system provide more amp/hours than the combination of the stock main and ESS/Aux battery, on top of the fact that the Genesis system has both base and optional power management strategies to preserve batteries to cold crank, despite the power draw needs of say an off roader pulling current without the engine on and the alternator charging those batteries. I say *base* batteries because it appears from above that some have outfitted batteries under this system that are bigger than the stock main battery

If you keep ESS disabled via Tazer do you even have to care about the little ESS battery?

Yes and no. It depends on model year, flashes, and whether diagnostic codes bother you.

As stated above, and in @word302's and Jim's @JimLee's post, in the 2018 3.6L if your ESS/Aux battery is dead, you cannot cold crank. There are ways around this though including permanently parallel connecting the two batteries through a hack discussed above that involves connecting a fused wire between terminals 1 and 2 in the (Power Distribution Center) PDC in the high amp fuse bar. The PDC is closest to the front passenger's seat, on top, in the engine bay. If you pull the black top up and off terminals one and two are on the driver's side of the box, closest to the front of the vehicle. Posts to this link are available, which should be read and understood thoroughly before attempted.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-aux-battery-bypass.17293/

There is a flash for the 2018 3.6L that get it behave like the 2019 3.6L and beyond such that if a cold crank fails because the ESS/Aux battery fails, a diagnostic code is thrown, and subsequent operator attempts at cranking work off the main battery. I hope this process disables ESS until it's battery issues are dealt with. It should if it doesn't.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-bad-aux-battery-no-start-firmware-fix.53608/

I installed the SmartStopStart to disable ESS and I've kept it disabled from the beginning. i know from other threads that the ESS battery is still being charged. What I want to know from definitive sources (i.e. those that have done it successfully) is exactly how to eliminate the ESS battery altogether and use a single battery. Cheers

See here:

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...y-consolidated-information.25377/#post-602294

I imagine as discussed in the thread above it involves disconnecting the ESS/Aux battery's ground from the main battery and jumpering the N1 and N2 connections in the PDC (Power Distribution Center).

The link to do the latter is found either at the above linked thread, or directly at https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/3-6l-ess-aux-battery-bypass.17293/.

As you've indicated you've done, please don't run ESS events with this change. Doing so can rob your main (only) battery of cranking power

 

[neil]

I took the exact opposite from the video. The fuse items will run from the cranking battery 100% of the time, and from both when above 12.7v. This is one reason I am not jumping onto the Genesis, as I do not use accessories other than those powered by my 6 aux wires (part of tow package). I don't want to run all new power accessory wires, and lose my stock aux buttons etc.

If it worked the way you described, I would be all in. Most of those accessories run off the small start stop battery, which would make it advantageous to upgrade that battery to a full size and keep the full-size start stop.

I am told this doesn't happen because of one of the wires being too short. I need to investigate this more.

so you already have stuff you use on your aux bank you don't want to rewire, gotcha. Makes sense, need to watch again.



@WranglerMan - your ess is then working as intended from the factory, you don't have anything flashed to change how that or the battery bank works?

 

[WranglerMan]

so you already have stuff you use on your aux bank you don't want to rewire, gotcha. Makes sense, need to watch again.



@WranglerMan - your ess is then working as intended from the factory, you don't have anything flashed to change how that or the battery bank works?

My ESS system is disabled thru a Smart Stop/Start module and I can use it if I choose but it has a 6 cycle limit with the Genesis, I have not researched the 6 cycle limit but I honestly don’t care since I don’t use it.

 

[Jebiruph]

My ESS system is disabled thru a Smart Stop/Start module and I can use it if I choose but it has a 6 cycle limit with the Genesis, I have not researched the 6 cycle limit but I honestly don’t care since I don’t use it.

Per Genesis, the 6 cycle limit is programmed into the ESS system. If I remember correctly, when the ESS system detects identical main and aux voltages for 6 cycles, it disables ESS until the next power cycle,.

 

[neil]

My ESS system is disabled thru a Smart Stop/Start module and I can use it if I choose but it has a 6 cycle limit with the Genesis, I have not researched the 6 cycle limit but I honestly don’t care since I don’t use it.

But as I read it there is no specific need for it to be disabled for Genesis to work properly correct?

 

[oceanblue2019]

The other option is to just buy the Genesis tray without all the electronics, and the pair of batteries.

Do the install as the video suggest of all the hard parts, and batteries.

But for the electrical hookup simply use the second battery, in the tray, to replace the small secondary battery. Hook up the other battery just like the original primary battery was setup.

You can order pre-built battery cables as needed from: https://ceautoelectricsupply.com/custom-cable-builder/

This keeps the original operating logic but with a full size secondary battery which helps to keep your aux loads powered longer.

You can come right off the fuse box 8mm studs with leads as needed. The 5/16 lug ends are a perfect fit for the 8mm.

You can extend, or replace, the leads going to the primary battery.

 

[WranglerMan]

But as I read it there is no specific need for it to be disabled for Genesis to work properly correct?

That is correct, after the 6 cycles it just disables ESS until the ignition is cycled I believe, also got rid of my lawnmower tender I was using on my stock system as the 1.25 amp tender just was not enough so picked up a NOCO Genius 10 and it’s a bad boy charger/tender

 

[Gee-pah]

I'm curious why the detection of 6 identical voltages in the ESS/Aux and main battery might have been programmed into the 3.6L JL to shut off ESS.

My guess is that if the vehicle is detecting constant voltages in each battery then it is 'thinking', if I could words to it:

"constant voltages...? this could only happen if the ESS/Aux and main batteries are hooked up in parallel even though they shouldn't be when I'm doing this testing. And if they're hooked up in parallel maybe some wires are cross and ESS events will tax the main battery, robbing it of potential cranking power."

And yet I haven't heard of it happening with @Jebiruph's N1 to N2 hard parallel connection of the two batteries......? (much that I don't think ESS should be run with the hack in service for the very potential to tax the main battery during ESS events discussed above)

...just a theory/guess

 

[oceanblue2019]

I'm curious why the detection of 6 identical voltages in the ESS/Aux and main battery might have been programmed into the 3.6L JL to shut off ESS.

My guess is that if the vehicle is detecting constant voltages in each battery then it is 'thinking', if I could words to it:

"constant voltages...? this could only happen if the ESS/Aux and main batteries are hooked up in parallel even though they shouldn't be when I'm doing this testing. And if they're hooked up in parallel maybe some wires are cross and ESS events will tax the main battery, robbing it of potential cranking power."

And yet I haven't heard of it happening with @Jebiruph's N1 to N2 hard parallel connection of the two batteries......? (much that I don't think ESS should be run with the hack in service for the very potential to tax the main battery during ESS events discussed above)

...just a theory/guess

I suspect if it sees the same voltage for "X" ESS cycles it assumes something is shorted/failed and it disables the system to not accidentally have a shut off event that a start is not possible.

Why 6? Who knows - only the Jeep engineers can tell you where that magic number came from.

 

[Jebiruph]

I'm curious why the detection of 6 identical voltages in the ESS/Aux and main battery might have been programmed into the 3.6L JL to shut off ESS.

My guess is that if the vehicle is detecting constant voltages in each battery then it is 'thinking', if I could words to it:

"constant voltages...? this could only happen if the ESS/Aux and main batteries are hooked up in parallel even though they shouldn't be when I'm doing this testing. And if they're hooked up in parallel maybe some wires are cross and ESS events will tax the main battery, robbing it of potential cranking power."

And yet I haven't heard of it happening with @Jebiruph's N1 to N2 hard parallel connection of the two batteries......? (much that I don't think ESS should be run with the hack in service for the very potential to tax the main battery during ESS events discussed above)

...just a theory/guess

Detecting identical voltage from both batteries during consecutive auto stops could indicate a failure in the PCR system preventing separation of the batteries. The same thing will happen with the jumper, most people probably disable ESS when they run with the jumper and don't experience the 6 event limit.

 

[steelponycowboy]

My experience with the Genesis system over the past 4+ years hasn't been quite what you are explaining. My main battery doesn't seem to disconnect when it gets to 12.7 volts and continues to be drained by the 2nd battery. I've experienced a dead main battery several times over the years which I attributed to the fridge/freezer in the back.. All of my aftermarket stuff runs off the 2nd battery, the main battery only powers as it did from stock with no additional connections. Then again, my Optima yellow tops just don't last more than a year to 14 months and both get replaced on a regular basis by optima under warranty for the past 4 years.

 

[WranglerMan]

My experience with the Genesis system over the past 4+ years hasn't been quite what you are explaining. My main battery doesn't seem to disconnect when it gets to 12.7 volts and continues to be drained by the 2nd battery. I've experienced a dead main battery several times over the years which I attributed to the fridge/freezer in the back.. All of my aftermarket stuff runs off the 2nd battery, the main battery only powers as it did from stock with no additional connections. Then again, my Optima yellow tops just don't last more than a year to 14 months and both get replaced on a regular basis by optima under warranty for the past 4 years.

I’m hoping that’s not the case for me, the Full River 750’s I’m running were pretty pricy and I don’t want to be left stranded but I‘m not running any accessories other than a winch and my after market off-road lights are tied into my factory fog light harness and don’t get used much.

If it’s not disconnecting maybe it’s an issue with the relay controller and I would think this would be covered under the Genesis warranty but I’m guessing after 4 years the warranty is over

I personally would look to a different battery maker..they should last longer than 15 months but maybe there are other issues causing them to go bad, I had been using a tiny Deltran tender on my stock setup for almost 3 years and never had a single battery issue but I always worried about that ESS battery so that’s why I jumped on the Genesis system and also upgraded my charger to the NOCO 10 as the Deltran was lacking in charging the Full River 750’s, it did work but took a few days to go to float mode and my plan is to use the NOCO as often as I can to keep my batteries at peak charge for a long life I hope.

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