Tried (and failed) negotiating on a Rubicon today...thoughts?

[HardSell]

People on here want what they paid for their Jeep when selling or trading in

One advantage we have in NM is a trade never needs to be considered. All we need to do is wait for someone to steal it, then look for a good deal. Sanctuary state, but no fires, hurricanes, quakes, or tornadoes; just dust and politicians.

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[azredzone]

Backstory to this is I've currently got a 2021 yellow Sahara on order. It's built, and in transit to the dealer. The dealer has been horrible w/ customer service, and I've not been able to actually negotiate a sales price on it. I'm getting annoyed w/ them, and happened to be out of town today, and ran across a 2020 Rubi that's yellow as well from another dealer. Thought I'd stop in, test drive, see what was up.

It's listed as MSRP of 54,495. The website say's they're offering a discount of 1,635 off that. Went on the test drive, and it was good. Didn't have all the features I wanted. I was willing to live with that if they'd give me a good offer, and I'd add/change what I could afterwards. Being a 2020 figured I could get a good deal. I see people on the forums getting anywhere from 1%-8% below invoice.

During the drive he tries to explain all the bs stuff they added as the dealer. Some tracking feature...some type of glass coating that increases strength 80% (he said something about withstanding a bullet...sound like a lot of bs to me)

I have a trade in, they looked at that, and said they'd do $15,000. I was fine with that, as that's what Carvana said they'd let me sell it to them for.

Went to talk price, he came back with some bullshit $500 off the MSRP. I asked him about the website price. He said that was if you "qualified" for certain offers. So he pulls out a sheet....college grad, military, etc, etc. Goes through it and I got the college grad, an another that was $500-1500. Asked him what determines that. He didn't know...went back to talk to the sales manager again.

Came back, said he shouldn't have pulled out that sheet, as that was only when special incentives were offered, and there were none right now, but they'd do the -$1635 from the website. Ticked me off a bit, but wasn't surprised. Car dealerships are so shady.

Anyway, he immediately starts trying to ask me about monthly payment. I tell him that's not a concern, the concern is the number at the top...the price of the Wrangler. I ask if that's all he could do, and he said yes. So, told him we'd think about it over lunch, and if we decided to do it, needed to call the other dealer to tell them we wouldn't be getting the ordered Jeep, just to make sure there were no repercussions. (They didn't even take a deposit, so pretty sure there wouldn't be)

Go to lunch, and I pull up the April 2020 order guide and figure out the invoice price. It's $51,406. I feel at the very most, that's what I should pay. Again, given the deals I've seen here, something below that doesn't seem unreasonable.

Called him back, and explained I had the order guide, found the fleet price, gave it to him, and told him I wanted it 3% below that ($47,807). Figured that's a good starting point. He went in again about their "upgrades" they added, and told him those had no value to me and was a risk they took when they put them on. He had me text the numbers, then he sent a bunch of texts that made me think he was confused about what I was asking, so we went back.

Explained again to him. He went to the manager (stayed back there for a good 5 mins), came back and just said "he's not willing to do that" No counter offer, nothing. Then he said that if we find someone that will do that, let him know so he can let his manager know he needs to be more aggressive on pricing. I explained I've seen all kinds of people online getting great deals like that.

So, thoughts? What'd I miss? Was my ask too aggressive? Keep in mind I'd like to get a similar price off invoice on what I actually ordered, so any tips would be helpful. And again, the other dealer seems like a pile of steaming crap too.

Summary:

$54,495 MSRP
$52,860 was what dealer wanted.
$51,406 was invoice price from April order guide.
$47,807 was what I was willing to pay. Not even a counter offer here.

Coming from a very tenured sales background (not cars) I would've suggested that you look at a lower-priced model to get you within your price expectations and budget. If you told me that you really wanted the higher-priced model, then I would know that you knew the price expectations, could afford it, and I would not negotiate further. It's called a take-away technique.

What your'e willing to pay does not translate to what someone is willing to sell it for, therefore unrealistic. Also, get pre-qualified through a bank that participates with the dealer and remove the financing discussion.

 

[Notorious]

Where dealerships go wrong is instead of charging MSRP they advertise false bait and switch prices, inflate loan rates, charge BS market adjustments, add BS options that are insanely overpriced, etc.

Yep you’re correct.

People on here want what they paid for their Jeep when selling or trading in and at the same time want their Jeep priced well below invoice. We can't have it both ways.

Good callout- people want top trade in value but they don’t want to pay CPO or even used Wrangler pricing which is near or more than new sticker price. Which way is it?

 

[hazylogic]

Update for anyone interested. Found a dealer that I think is going to come in at around 3% below invoice on the 2021 Rubi order. Waiting for them to send final pricing over. Sent yet another email to the dealer I ordered the Sahara from detailing this as a "last" chance to actually reply to my emails and give me a good offer by tomorrow.....we'll see where this goes.

If they don't reply back by tomorrow, I'll call to tell them deal is off and go with the Rubi (which, I'll probably do that anyway even if they get back with me )

 

[JEEPIDON]

8% under invoice?? OTD - without outrageous fees?* Totally!!! GET it immediately!!!! Anyone who does not do that will have me come and throw some dunce pie at them!!!

* HOWEVER! please watch out for other cash padding such as documentation fees (some state are allowed to have unspecified amount - New Jersey charges like $400 in addition to plate fees, NY have a limit of $75 but they might charge you $350 for plate fees.)

If the quotation comes with miscellaneous fees such as side passenger fees, dog permit fees, first door opening fees, dealership suck up fees, dealership decals fees, valet your Jeep from their parking lot to the sales office fees, outrageous bad dealership coffee fees, stupid-proof fees - okay okay attempt at being sarcastic and inane here - then your 8% invoice is not worth it. Oh an you should never pay for I-did-not-offer-you-to-pull-my-finger-fees. Okay I will stop!

Speaking about my experience with pulling fingers, I used to go to college down south and I met a lot of awesome friends and families. Being a foreign student back then, I think one of the most traumatic culture shock moment was when I pulled my friend's brother finger when he asked me to do it and he farted a big one. I was never the same ever!! *crawls into fetal position and starting to sucking my thumb*

What a valuable contribution.

 

[HardSell]

I think is going to come in at around 3% below invoice

If you can get 3% this time of year, it's a very good deal. 7+?% on inventory, December 31. 6-8% on factory orders, late January or late February; then price goes up. You really should go with a Rubi. I'm speaking from the experience of suffering the expense of trying to after market all the traction goodies with inferior upgrades which attempt to mimic the Rubicon. Moreover, you're not going to be able to after market push button disconnects at any price. A base Rubicon with hard top is the best deal. Work with bumpers after that. Factory steel bumpers are a rip off.

 

[hazylogic]

A base Rubicon with hard top is the best deal.

Change of subject, but why do you prefer the hard top? Wanted to go soft top just because it’s easy to take off, and living in TX plan to have it off a lot. The hard top just seems like a PITA to get on/off and store.

 

[jessedacri]

Change of subject, but why do you prefer the hard top? Wanted to go soft top just because it’s easy to take off, and living in TX plan to have it off a lot. The hard top just seems like a PITA to get on/off and store.

I went hardtop and while I love the look and it fulfills the needs of keeping valuables secure (I transport cinema-grade camera gear often), I find myself really wanting a soft top. It definitely is a pain to get the hard top on and off, and the soft top in safari mode is exactly how I want my Jeep 80% of the year out here in CA. I just went 6 months with no top or doors and there were certainly moments I wished I could throw the top up (and my wheeling buddies did, with their soft tops!) on a whim.

It's a tossup, but if you want flexibility the soft top is definitely the more fun option that you can manage without two people and a garage.

 

[Ohio Hiker]

One advantage we have in NM is a trade never needs to be considered. All we need to do is wait for someone to steal it, then look for a good deal. Sanctuary state, but no fires, hurricanes, quakes, or tornadoes; just dust and politicians.

I saw plenty of tornadoes when I was stationed in Clovis! Sorry, not trying to hijack and derail the thread

 

[Dkretden]

Update for anyone interested. Found a dealer that I think is going to come in at around 3% below invoice on the 2021 Rubi order. Waiting for them to send final pricing over. Sent yet another email to the dealer I ordered the Sahara from detailing this as a "last" chance to actually reply to my emails and give me a good offer by tomorrow.....we'll see where this goes.

If they don't reply back by tomorrow, I'll call to tell them deal is off and go with the Rubi (which, I'll probably do that anyway even if they get back with me )

I think that in the current market, that’s a good price.

did you try River Oaks Jeep in Houston (59&kirby)?

 

[hazylogic]

I think that in the current market, that’s a good price.

did you try River Oaks Jeep in Houston (59&kirby)?

I didn’t. What’s your experience with them?

 

[Friday2322]

Backstory to this is I've currently got a 2021 yellow Sahara on order. It's built, and in transit to the dealer. The dealer has been horrible w/ customer service, and I've not been able to actually negotiate a sales price on it. I'm getting annoyed w/ them, and happened to be out of town today, and ran across a 2020 Rubi that's yellow as well from another dealer. Thought I'd stop in, test drive, see what was up.

It's listed as MSRP of 54,495. The website say's they're offering a discount of 1,635 off that. Went on the test drive, and it was good. Didn't have all the features I wanted. I was willing to live with that if they'd give me a good offer, and I'd add/change what I could afterwards. Being a 2020 figured I could get a good deal. I see people on the forums getting anywhere from 1%-8% below invoice.

During the drive he tries to explain all the bs stuff they added as the dealer. Some tracking feature...some type of glass coating that increases strength 80% (he said something about withstanding a bullet...sound like a lot of bs to me)

I have a trade in, they looked at that, and said they'd do $15,000. I was fine with that, as that's what Carvana said they'd let me sell it to them for.

Went to talk price, he came back with some bullshit $500 off the MSRP. I asked him about the website price. He said that was if you "qualified" for certain offers. So he pulls out a sheet....college grad, military, etc, etc. Goes through it and I got the college grad, an another that was $500-1500. Asked him what determines that. He didn't know...went back to talk to the sales manager again.

Came back, said he shouldn't have pulled out that sheet, as that was only when special incentives were offered, and there were none right now, but they'd do the -$1635 from the website. Ticked me off a bit, but wasn't surprised. Car dealerships are so shady.

Anyway, he immediately starts trying to ask me about monthly payment. I tell him that's not a concern, the concern is the number at the top...the price of the Wrangler. I ask if that's all he could do, and he said yes. So, told him we'd think about it over lunch, and if we decided to do it, needed to call the other dealer to tell them we wouldn't be getting the ordered Jeep, just to make sure there were no repercussions. (They didn't even take a deposit, so pretty sure there wouldn't be)

Go to lunch, and I pull up the April 2020 order guide and figure out the invoice price. It's $51,406. I feel at the very most, that's what I should pay. Again, given the deals I've seen here, something below that doesn't seem unreasonable.

Called him back, and explained I had the order guide, found the fleet price, gave it to him, and told him I wanted it 3% below that ($47,807). Figured that's a good starting point. He went in again about their "upgrades" they added, and told him those had no value to me and was a risk they took when they put them on. He had me text the numbers, then he sent a bunch of texts that made me think he was confused about what I was asking, so we went back.

Explained again to him. He went to the manager (stayed back there for a good 5 mins), came back and just said "he's not willing to do that" No counter offer, nothing. Then he said that if we find someone that will do that, let him know so he can let his manager know he needs to be more aggressive on pricing. I explained I've seen all kinds of people online getting great deals like that.

So, thoughts? What'd I miss? Was my ask too aggressive? Keep in mind I'd like to get a similar price off invoice on what I actually ordered, so any tips would be helpful. And again, the other dealer seems like a pile of steaming crap too.

Summary:

$54,495 MSRP
$52,860 was what dealer wanted.
$51,406 was invoice price from April order guide.
$47,807 was what I was willing to pay. Not even a counter offer here.

Get online and shop. I found a new 2018 and saved $7k over the 2019 I was looking at and had it shipped to my front door. The local dealers around here don't negotiate and apparently don't realize that customers are willing to shop elsewhere. That's the second time I've purchased a new Jeep from somewhere else after giving the local dealership the opportunity to earn my business. Now the only thing I will use them for is recall service.

 

[danzy55]

I ran across a similar situation here in Boston, since dealers have next to zero inventory they are NOT dealing, even on factory orders had two dealers tell me they would sell it to me at MSRP told them to screw.
Mind you the flip side is if you have a decent trade your going come out way ahead on it....but its a numbers game. For the life of me I can't see how alot of these dealers are keeping the doors open with such low inventory on new and used. Imagine the factories trying desperately to build inventory for dealers plus take customer factory orders. I doubt dealers will be back in a good stocking position for at least another 4-6 months.

 

[Johnczar4]

Most importantly, get what you want. Don't settle and get close to what you want. You'll regret it every time you see the car you really wanted. Used AutoTrader to find the car I wanted. No discounts were available in local NJ dealers. Everything negotiated over phone and confirmed via email. Secured my own loan. Never stepped foot in dealer until I picked up the car. Drove further to Brooklyn to get mine and local dealer services it without issue. Got $4500 off MSRP vs $2000 in NJ. $4000-$5000 off MSRP reasonable depending on local supply and demand. Deciding on 20 vs 21 - you need to decide what's more important when. Purchase price vs resale. May save $ on the front end but lose it on the back.

 

[hazylogic]

Since the dealer didn't charge the deposit (even if they did), I'm assuming I can walk away from this without repercussions? Still haven't heard anything back from them.

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