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Why Not A Rubicon?

word302

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(I could be wrong here), but I see all models changing out the suspension and steering components, the OEM stuff even on Rubicon is pretty weak. What I wonder is how often do people buy a Rubicon to install Dana 60 or stronger axles. I would hazard a guess it is not that often and therefore **for many people** the Rubicon axles would be just fine since they are ELD and are not experiencing the issues the LSD axles are.

Lift kits and the like happen to all models so no Rubicon benefit there (unless one is happy with the Rubicon height). In the end, it just does not seem to be a "waste" to buy a Rubicon since the majority of what is changed on a Rubicon is also changed on the other models too (except, perhaps for the axles).

Am I correct in my assumption?
I'll be changing out the axles on my Rubicon. But when I do, I can actually sell the Rubi axles for a good price. The sport axles, not so much.
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Yes.
 

Outlawd

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This entire thread is dependent on what you plan to do with your Jeep. If you plan to heavy modify and mostly off road then don't waste money on a Rubi. For me though a Rubi was just the ticket. I looked at a couple of sports and roughly added things needed I wanted a Jeep for and realized quickly I would have had more money invested and a lot more hassles building it like I wanted. I wanted a Jeep loaded with options and tough enough to run on mild to aggressive trails, mild rock crawling, gravel travels as well as state to state interstate traveling so I bought a Rubicon. Other than the 35's I added for looks no other additions were needed, it was born for this type of fun. :like:
 

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For me the Sahara had all that I wanted and met my budget. I thought about getting a Rubicon but it would have been just for the name.
 

RubiSc0tt

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Over the past year, I have seen more than one recommendation to buy a Sport (or other models) and build it out versus buying a Rubicon. Why is this? What is it that is discarded on a Rubicon and replaced that would not be on a different model?

Genuine question here...
This really depends on your goals, budget, and skill level in the garage. Also important to mention: It predicates on you finding a VERY cheap Sport model. In my experience, this is typical a VERY misguided view, to the point where it's almost an urban legend. I'll try to keep it as simple as possible.

Typically, the "parts" that get discarded on a Rubicon that people are referring to are the axles. Sometimes the transfer case as well. But that's usually because someone is going all in on a hardcore build.

What do you want to do with your Jeep?
Are you looking to go all in on a hardcore off road build, with 40" tires and super low gearing (like we mentioned above)? Buy the cheapest one you can (maybe even salvage) and go wild. .
If you want to do dirt roads, basic trails, and the beach? You're fine with a sport
If you want a daily driver that can do all that, and grow with you- tackling more advanced trails as you grow? Rubicon.
Do you want to do all that AND build it? Probably Rubicon, still.
Can you do all the work yourself (install lockers and gears, spec out and install an aftermarket transfer case, driveshafts, etc)? Will you have the cash on hand to order everything and the time to get it installed yourself? IF not, do you have the cash to pay someone to do it for you? Can you afford to have your vehicle down or in the shop to have this stuff done?
This is all something to think about when weighing out the Rubi vs. non debate.

To be honest, I've had both and I'll never own another non-Rubicon unless I go all in on a buggy style build or a classic restomod. I do the majority of my own work, I have the means and the friends who are willing to help me out, so I could do most of that if I wanted, but I'd rather just have a Rubicon. More up time with the Jeep, in theory, so I don't mind paying a little more. That said, I'm on week 3 of waiting for the clutch recall to be completed...but that isn't a Rubicon thing.
 

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After having a Rubi for over 5 years lifted on 35's with stock axles and having done the Rubicon Trail among countless other off-roading trips AND never having an issue with the stock axles, or steering components, or powertrain, I guess the stock axles aren't all that bad. And that was a JK. From my understanding, the JL Rubi axles have been improved over those of the JK Rubi.

Oh sure I had to replace a couple of axle seals but after 5 years and plenty of off-roading that was literally the worst of it. And that ain't bad.

So in my opinion, if you are going to completely rebuild the damn thing from the ground up and trailer it to trails and whatnot, then yeah, why spend the extra money on a Rubicon?

If you're not an off-roader, then why spend the extra money on a Rubicon? Why get a Wrangler at all? There are better choices for grocery getters and carting kids to soccer practice.

But if you're an off-roader like me who does about 6 trips annually and also uses it as a daily driver, then (money notwithstanding) why the heck not a Rubicon? It's tough as nails right out of the box and goes all the fun places Subaru's can't. Oh sure I will needlessly spend money on more extreme duty parts I most likely won't need but hey... that's Jeep ownership ;)

And if it makes you feel better, I took off the Rubicon stickers anyhow...

Jeep Wrangler JL Why Not A Rubicon? 50059861788_e066ce2481_c
 

rubileon

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I think you just asked the question I have been driving at. What is specific on a Rubicon that you would upgrade that would not be upgraded on any model? With the exception of the axles, are the costs not about the same no matter which model it is?
Not all upgrades are the same. There are people who put Rubicon take off parts to their Sport but we don't know if they stop there. Generally, when modifying, people want to put things better than anything stock available in any trim... so the motivation is to take the capability beyond Rubicon.

With that said, if I bought a Sport and had bottomless pockets and plenty of time to leave it in shops, I'd still not mess with the transfercase because it's not commonly done... so I'd miss out on the low range ratio of the Rubicon (not ideal). You can compensate by re-gearing (your axles) but that's "always on". Aside from that, everything else gets modded commonly.
 

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If you want to do dirt roads, basic trails, and the beach? You're fine with a sport
Lol you can do A LOT more than this with a sport. for this just get a subaru.... the JL sport has about the same ground clearance a JK rubicon has, and if you disconnect you get great articulation. It still has a front solid axle, pretty impressive 4lo and fits 33s easily.

The Rubicon JL is a lifted JK. The JK rubi was very capable, and so is the sport JL. Just need to get some good tires on it, and good to go. Just wont be as smooth as the rubi or able to tackle extreme off roading. But a wrangler sport with decent tires is the most capable stock off roading vehicle after the rubicon IMO.
 

RubiSc0tt

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Lol you can do A LOT more than this with a sport. for this just get a subaru.... the JL sport has about the same ground clearance a JK rubicon has, and if you disconnect you get great articulation. It still has a front solid axle, pretty impressive 4lo and fits 33s easily.
You're not wrong. I did a lot more with my 98TJ sport on 31's than most people were willing to do on 33's. My point was trying to level with the impression I get of "what most people will do" with their Jeep when they buy it. I'm trying to cover all bases, because for the amount of times i hear the cry of "I'm not going hard core rock crawling", I see just as many people who get into off roading, and 2-3 years down the road say "I really wish I opted for the Rubicon instead of what I did get". And keep in mind- these people aren't "hard core rock crawling" either.

That said, the place where the Rubicon is really going to make the difference is the gearing (4:10 in the axles and 4:1 in the case vs. various gearing in the axles (not exactly sure- I've heard 3.21-3.73 in Sport)and 2.72:1 in non-Rubicon)- Much more torque application and ability to finesse in tough spots), Locking differentials aren't a complete necessity, but I've had them in my rigs since 2007 and I'll tell you, I'd much rather roll with lockers than open diffs.

I forgot to mention, JL Rubicons also have the higher line fenders and 33-ish tires, but you can usually get those off the for sale forums.

This is my second Rubicon, and it was great to basically order skids, a bumper and a winch, bolt them on, and be ready to go.
 

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RubiSc0tt

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(I could be wrong here), but I see all models changing out the suspension and steering components, the OEM stuff even on Rubicon is pretty weak. What I wonder is how often do people buy a Rubicon to install Dana 60 or stronger axles. I would hazard a guess it is not that often and therefore **for many people** the Rubicon axles would be just fine since they are ELD and are not experiencing the issues the LSD axles are.

Lift kits and the like happen to all models so no Rubicon benefit there (unless one is happy with the Rubicon height). In the end, it just does not seem to be a "waste" to buy a Rubicon since the majority of what is changed on a Rubicon is also changed on the other models too (except, perhaps for the axles).

Am I correct in my assumption?
This is correct in my experience. Most of the time, swapping axles is cost prohibitive unless you're in the industry, or you have a shop. I haven't seen too many people swapping out their Axles on the JL Rubicons, but they're only 2-3 years old. so that may be part of it. Some of the people swapping don't even need it- they just have the money and want the security.

As far as steering and suspension components go:
Steering is all the same stock as far as I know, but I could be wrong, so someone please correct me if that is the case.

Most of the time suspension is more for clearance of larger tires and better articulation (through adjustible arms with misalignment joints vs. one piece arms with fixed joints). That said, you always get what you pay for, and I've had several OEM suspension failures on my old Jeep as a direct result of hard use on the trail, so its not out of the realm of possibilities.

. When you modify it, it's not going to be much of a daily driver.
This is wrong. I've had 3 Jeeps, 2 Rubicons. All have been modified and were daily driven/ weekend warriors. Most of the guys I have wheeled with for years daily drive their Jeeps. if you can't drive down the road at 70mph after successfully completing a difficult trail, you did something wrong with the build of your Jeep- or you've got a purpose built buggy.
 

Az-jewel

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Not all upgrades are the same. There are people who put Rubicon take off parts to their Sport but we don't know if they stop there. Generally, when modifying, people want to put things better than anything stock available in any trim... so the motivation is to take the capability beyond Rubicon.

With that said, if I bought a Sport and had bottomless pockets and plenty of time to leave it in shops, I'd still not mess with the transfercase because it's not commonly done... so I'd miss out on the low range ratio of the Rubicon (not ideal). You can compensate by re-gearing (your axles) but that's "always on". Aside from that, everything else gets modded commonly.
You're not wrong. I did a lot more with my 98TJ sport on 31's than most people were willing to do on 33's. My point was trying to level with the impression I get of "what most people will do" with their Jeep when they buy it. I'm trying to cover all bases, because for the amount of times i hear the cry of "I'm not going hard core rock crawling", I see just as many people who get into off roading, and 2-3 years down the road say "I really wish I opted for the Rubicon instead of what I did get". And keep in mind- these people aren't "hard core rock crawling" either.

That said, the place where the Rubicon is really going to make the difference is the gearing (4:10 in the axles and 4:1 in the case vs. various gearing in the axles (not exactly sure- I've heard 3.21-3.73 in Sport)and 2.72:1 in non-Rubicon)- Much more torque application and ability to finesse in tough spots), Locking differentials aren't a complete necessity, but I've had them in my rigs since 2007 and I'll tell you, I'd much rather roll with lockers than open diffs.

I forgot to mention, JL Rubicons also have the higher line fenders and 33-ish tires, but you can usually get those off the for sale forums.

This is my second Rubicon, and it was great to basically order skids, a bumper and a winch, bolt them on, and be ready to go.
these both point out the one upgrade I can’t easily do on my Sport-the Rubicon transfer case. It’s something I’d like to add eventually but not urgent or important enough for now.

Not knowing how much I would LOVE off roading, I bought a 2018 JLU Sport S with all the upgrades I wanted for a fabulous deal 1 year ago today. The best deal on a Rubicon at the time was $15-17k more!
ive added lift, 35” tires, custom vinyl wrap, bumpers, fenders, winch, trussed Front axle (lsd got the D44 rear), misc. parts like lights, spare tire bracket and license plate relo etc, sway bar quick disconnects, regeared to 4.88, and arb air lockers. All for less than that $15k price difference to the stock rubicon.
I go off roading every weekend more or less and often a few times during the week during this long lockdown too. It’s been a sanity saver!

Yes, you can sell your Rubi (or even Sport takeoffs-tires and wheels) takeoffs fo some savings on the new upgrades, but still not near what the new parts cost.
Most Rubis I know added lift, tires, quick discos, and several regeared.
My modded Sport is as capable off road as my friends modified Rubi, but mine was $20k less At the end of the day. Except for the 4:1 transfer case - it eludes me, but eventually if/when I go to 37’s I’ll look harder to try and add one. :)
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