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Jeep Slotted above Rubicon

porcusRex

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something above rubicon or something that generates a whole new level of intrest?

simple..

either v8 or a massaged twin turbo v6. and i suppose it would need something like ESS or eTorgue which i would avoid altogether if possible, but make it ess and not etorque.

other areas of interest might be a manual tranny diesel though i doubt we will see that as bringing the diesel to market was already a hurdle and finding an certifying a manual probably isnt worth the effort.
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aldo98229

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I think the Bronco hate in this thread is hilarious. While I think the Jeep is still likely to have a few advantages over Bronco, where Ford is about to absolutely eat Jeep’s lunch is in powetrains. The 3.6l is perfectly adequate (I drive a 3.8 JK on 3.21’s with 33’s and I consider even that adequate) but the Bronco with a 2.7 or 3.0 liter ecoboost is going to be absolutely insane. And while some may say oh gearing/jeeps are for going slow/ whatever I also see people clamoring for a V8 Jeep. Well both of the V6 Ecoboost engines are more powerful than a 5.3 LS motor that people are so fond of. Bronco may have IFS but it’s still getting 35’s, front and rear lockers, disconnecting swaybar, a modular roof that stores in the back, frameless doors for easy storing, and other tricks that we don’t know yet. Including the “warthog” Bronco which is the internal code for the Ford Performance variant of the Bronco that is reported to come with 37” tires stock. I think people are going to be blown away by the Bronco’s capability, and hopefully it forces Jeep to up their game. I have zero brand loyalty(hence why I drive a Jeep) and would easily sell my Bronco if Jeep offers something that beats it in a few years.

Jeep is very afraid.

And if someone replies with this “Ecodiesel” LOLno. Ecodiesel is nowhere near as good as either V6 Ecoboost option.
Jeep has every reason to be concerned about Bronco, but I doubt it is “scared.”

The reason FJ Cruiser and Xterra failed to dislodge Wrangler, despite Jeep’s questionable quality reputation, and the fact that TJ at that time offered only 2 doors, a small interior, an uncomfortable ride and a 3-speed automatic, was because of the strong loyalty Wrangler owners had towards their Jeeps. FJ Cruiser was able to lure Japanese vehicle owners who were suspicious of Jeep quality, but it did very little to conquest actual Jeepers. Xterra fared even worse, despite offering the utility of 4-doors, a more powerful motor and a more modern transmission.

Continuous, decades-long market presence give vehicles inordinate resilience against newcomers, whether it is Chevrolet Suburban, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord or Ford F-Series.

Bronco will appeal primarily to Ford die-hards who can’t wait for their beloved brand to get back into the segment. Ford owners are numerous and tend to be loyal, and Bronco will add pressure to Wrangler sales —and prices. But Jeep’s youthful image, Wrangler’s authenticity and off-road reputation, and Jeep’s customer loyalty, established over 75+ continuous years, will give its key defense.
 

Windshieldfarmer

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I realize this thread references the Bronco but the with the price of a loaded JLUR exceeding $60,000, the V6 supercharged Land Rover Defender 110 is only $10,000 more with an air suspension that creates 11.5” clearance and pretty robust skids. I believe it will have a factory winch option. If you settle for the turbo 4, it’s priced similar to the Jeep. Of course LR’s reliability is right up there with FCA’s although LR is considered a luxury vehicle with service to match.
 

ThirtyOne

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I realize this thread references the Bronco but the with the price of a loaded JLUR exceeding $60,000, the V6 supercharged Land Rover Defender 110 is only $10,000 more with an air suspension that creates 11.5” clearance and pretty robust skids. I believe it will have a factory winch option. If you settle for the turbo 4, it’s priced similar to the Jeep. Of course LR’s reliability is right up there with FCA’s although LR is considered a luxury vehicle with service to match.
Apples and oranges to me. Jeep guys like to keep it simple and they like solid axles. The Defender is neither.

I do like the interior and as I have said on a few threads if I was a Sahara guy the Defender has the interior I would want.
 

Notorious

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There are lots of problems with jeeps too. Compromises that have been made to keep within the Jeep image since they are too afraid to change it too much.
Afraid to change it? Not really. The Wrangler is a really nice evolution of vehicle. Like the Porsche 911.
Ford basically had a blank slate of “make it an homage to the first gen”
So what you’re really saying is, we can expect it to slip out of park, not start, be of grossly cheap (not inexpensive) shoddy construction and have low mileage before it’s abandoned on the side of the road?
it appears they weren’t afraid to use it.
they should be afraid to use a Ford product. We all should. :CWL:

Fords make me laugh. I find them ridiculously funny and very amusing.

Even funnier when I need a flatbed to tow a Ford and the tow truck driver shows up with a Ford but can’t engage the brakes. Have you ever seen a fat man chase a ford flatbed as it rolls backwards? I have, it’s funny. Oops.

Jokes aside, I’m a fan of things that add value to our economy. People spending their money on a new Ford is a wonderful thing. Even if it is a shitty new Ford.
 

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Notorious

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I’m sure it's all in good fun. I've been given worse from family members who own Chevys. I've actually been fortunate and not had any problems with my Fords, aside from the Explorer having a right rear brake occasionally sticking leading to excessive wear.
It really is!!

For the record, I hold no malice for Ford vehicles at all nor the people who drive them. Loyal Ford enthusiasts get on this forum, feign interest in the Wrangler, bellyflop and then push their undying love for Ford.

So I find it funny taking cheap shots.
 

Kyanche

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Heh I still think the JL Wrangler looks a lot better than the Bronco, however I do look forward to seeing what kinda competition it creates!
 

RubiSc0tt

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TO answer OP's question: No. Rubicon has already been established as the "top dog, rugged off road model with some luxuries" by Jeep.

That begs the question: will today’s 10-year old kid grow up to want a Jeep (“because it’s unique and fun and looks cool, it is fun, and I can take the top off, and it’s fun”) or will he/she think them so “common” that they really don’t want one (“because it reminds me of my middle-aged neighbor Mrs. Robinson next door. She traded her Honda minivan for a Jeep when I was 12”).

Time will tell, I guess.
I can answer this right now. I live in an apartment complex. There are several other Jeeps of varying years and models. When one of the beige Saraha or White Sport models drive by, the kids don't really pay any mind (other than my son who points and shouts "dad look, another Jeep!"). However, there are 3 that always seem to stand out: A bright red JKU sport, a black JKU with a lift/ larger tires/ fancy wheels, and a bumper, and my Bright orange JLUR with bumper/ winch. I notice my Jeep getting the most waves/ points from kids out playing when I'm going to work or running errands- but I'm not driving the others.

The entire reason I bought a Jeep was because I loved big, dumb, boxy 4wd's and wanted to go off roading. I've told the story elsewhere, but when I was real little, there was a Blue CJ 7 and a Brown Ford Bronco in my neighborhood- lifted, swampers, KC Lights, Chrome tube bumpers- total 80's fashion. I loved passing them walking around the neighborhood, and it was a double bonus when they were hanging out at each other's houses. Likewise: I had a Tan CJ7 and Red Ford Bronco that were two of my favorite hot wheels growing up. When I bought my first Jeep, the Bronco wasn't a feasible option (too old, not enough around). If it was, I probably would have driven one just to see, though.

In short- the kids who are prone to this kind of thing will likely seek out what is out there at the time: Wrangler, Bronco, etc. The rest won't matter.

There is this little thing called CAFE. You won't see a V8 and 60's on a factory Wrangler, ever. Especially with the output of turbos these days. Plus, it would have to be re-engneered for the Hemi. The big reason it has never made it to the Wrangler is crash testing. You'd have it coming through the center stack on the dash board in a frontal impact.

Besides, why? With the Ecodiesel being available, I don't see the point, other than being fast.

I am, however, suprised the JK didn't originally get the 4.7. But I think it was for the same crash integrity reason. Just a little too long.

The good news is that with the Wrangler, you can swap axles and engines readily due to the robust aftermarket. The aftermarket will come for the Bronco if and only if it is a big success and more than a few hundred thousand of them are on the road. It will take a LONG time, however, before it can even approach what is out there for the Wrangler, which was decades in the making.
The group of people asking for a V8 and D60's under a Wrangler from the factory and the group of people who probably wouldn't bother utilizing them properly seems to be the same group., They're also the people who would likely complain when it's got a price tag of $80-100k. Dealers mod out Wranglers all the time and tack another $10-15k onto the price tag, and they'll always get someone who will pay it. That removes the liability from FCA and puts it on the dealer.

And if anyone has any questions as to "why hasn't Jeep done ______, it would sell like crazy":
1). No, it probably wouldn't. Keep in mind We are the Lunatic Fringe: a minority of owners who heavily mod their vehicles to do crazy stuff. We are prevalent across all enthusiast vehicle communities, however, we are still a minority.
2). Anyone who wants a good look at how "entusiast" packages like the Rubicon get developed, packaged, and sold to the rest of the company for it to be greenlit for production should really go read Jp Mag/ Four Wheeler's feature:
The Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Story - Nearly Cancelled
Wrangler Rubicon: The Jeep that Shouldn't Have Made it Through the System
 

Jeep4Win

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TO answer OP's question: No. Rubicon has already been established as the "top dog, rugged off road model with some luxuries" by Jeep.



I can answer this right now. I live in an apartment complex. There are several other Jeeps of varying years and models. When one of the beige Saraha or White Sport models drive by, the kids don't really pay any mind (other than my son who points and shouts "dad look, another Jeep!"). However, there are 3 that always seem to stand out: A bright red JKU sport, a black JKU with a lift/ larger tires/ fancy wheels, and a bumper, and my Bright orange JLUR with bumper/ winch. I notice my Jeep getting the most waves/ points from kids out playing when I'm going to work or running errands- but I'm not driving the others.

The entire reason I bought a Jeep was because I loved big, dumb, boxy 4wd's and wanted to go off roading. I've told the story elsewhere, but when I was real little, there was a Blue CJ 7 and a Brown Ford Bronco in my neighborhood- lifted, swampers, KC Lights, Chrome tube bumpers- total 80's fashion. I loved passing them walking around the neighborhood, and it was a double bonus when they were hanging out at each other's houses. Likewise: I had a Tan CJ7 and Red Ford Bronco that were two of my favorite hot wheels growing up. When I bought my first Jeep, the Bronco wasn't a feasible option (too old, not enough around). If it was, I probably would have driven one just to see, though.

In short- the kids who are prone to this kind of thing will likely seek out what is out there at the time: Wrangler, Bronco, etc. The rest won't matter.


The group of people asking for a V8 and D60's under a Wrangler from the factory and the group of people who probably wouldn't bother utilizing them properly seems to be the same group., They're also the people who would likely complain when it's got a price tag of $80-100k. Dealers mod out Wranglers all the time and tack another $10-15k onto the price tag, and they'll always get someone who will pay it. That removes the liability from FCA and puts it on the dealer.

And if anyone has any questions as to "why hasn't Jeep done ______, it would sell like crazy":
1). No, it probably wouldn't. Keep in mind We are the Lunatic Fringe: a minority of owners who heavily mod their vehicles to do crazy stuff. We are prevalent across all enthusiast vehicle communities, however, we are still a minority.
2). Anyone who wants a good look at how "entusiast" packages like the Rubicon get developed, packaged, and sold to the rest of the company for it to be greenlit for production should really go read Jp Mag/ Four Wheeler's feature:
The Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Story - Nearly Cancelled
Wrangler Rubicon: The Jeep that Shouldn't Have Made it Through the System
That’s a very good write up!
 

Waterboy2000

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With the fresh competition of the Bronco coming, anyone think FCA will release a model above the Rubicon? I can’t think of a good name for it, but with a model coming with 35” and a lift stock + some more HP and TQ numbers to fend off the incoming marketplace threats.
I love almost everything about my my '19 JLUR except the $$$. So, if fresh competition helps lower the $$$, I'm all for it.
 

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Perhaps the hard top could be redesigned to make the back easier to be removed.
 

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I have it on good authority that the new highest trim levels will be Moon Buggy and Mars Rover. Rubicon will become the entry level base trim.
 

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I love almost everything about my my '19 JLUR except the $$$. So, if fresh competition helps lower the $$$, I'm all for it.
I think the biggest problem with the price is the value proposition...the wrangler has become too expensive for what it is. For goodness sakes in 2021 they are charging extra for gray non metallic paint. I wonder how much Jeep makes on a wrangler compared to what Ford will make on a somewhat comparable Bronco. I’m guessing the Ford will have far more engineering and design investment and probably a superior product though w/o the solid axles rock crawlers require. I enjoy my once a year trail visits to Colorado with my Jeep but I could probably tackle these same trails with less finesse with a Bronco, Defender, or even Tacoma TRD....and have a much better daily driver. The still like my Jeep, but the next time I decide to trade, the wrangler will not receive the automatic nod.
 

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I think the biggest problem with the price is the value proposition...the wrangler has become too expensive for what it is. For goodness sakes in 2021 they are charging extra for gray non metallic paint. I wonder how much Jeep makes on a wrangler compared to what Ford will make on a somewhat comparable Bronco. I’m guessing the Ford will have far more engineering and design investment and probably a superior product though w/o the solid axles rock crawlers require. I enjoy my once a year trail visits to Colorado with my Jeep but I could probably tackle these same trails with less finesse with a Bronco, Defender, or even Tacoma TRD....and have a much better daily driver. The still like my Jeep, but the next time I decide to trade, the wrangler will not receive the automatic nod.
Yeah this is my first Wrangler and honestly if Ford wasn't so late to the game I would have seriously considered the Bronco. My AWD Traverse probably sees more offroad than most Jeeps and does fine, but is a way better cruiser to get from point A to point B. The deciding factor in buying the Wrangler for me was the 4 doors and open top. You just can't get that anywhere else right now. I for one am VERY happy to see some competition in this space.
 

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I think the Bronco hate in this thread is hilarious. While I think the Jeep is still likely to have a few advantages over Bronco, where Ford is about to absolutely eat Jeep’s lunch is in powetrains. The 3.6l is perfectly adequate (I drive a 3.8 JK on 3.21’s with 33’s and I consider even that adequate) but the Bronco with a 2.7 or 3.0 liter ecoboost is going to be absolutely insane. And while some may say oh gearing/jeeps are for going slow/ whatever I also see people clamoring for a V8 Jeep. Well both of the V6 Ecoboost engines are more powerful than a 5.3 LS motor that people are so fond of. Bronco may have IFS but it’s still getting 35’s, front and rear lockers, disconnecting swaybar, a modular roof that stores in the back, frameless doors for easy storing, and other tricks that we don’t know yet. Including the “warthog” Bronco which is the internal code for the Ford Performance variant of the Bronco that is reported to come with 37” tires stock. I think people are going to be blown away by the Bronco’s capability, and hopefully it forces Jeep to up their game. I have zero brand loyalty(hence why I drive a Jeep) and would easily sell my Bronco if Jeep offers something that beats it in a few years.

Jeep is very afraid.

And if someone replies with this “Ecodiesel” LOLno. Ecodiesel is nowhere near as good as either V6 Ecoboost option.
Nailed it.
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