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Bubbles in Paint at Door Hinges

LastMango

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They didn't replace my door, so they didn't remove anything other than the exterior door handle, keyhole and mirror. Everything was reinstalled correctly. This time I think I'm going to insist they replace the doors. Even when it's just the hinge area that's repaired, they still wind up painting most of the door anyway.
According to my dealer, if the corrosion reappears after a fix on the same panel, they’ll replace that panel. Best of luck :/
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Yellow_Rubi-can

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It is not a Jeep thing it is an aluminum problem. Weren't you aware of the problems with aluminum car panels before you bought it? The F-150 has had the problem since they converted over. Think there might even be a class action suit about it. It took a long time to conqueror rust on steel panels so it will take a long time for corrosion on aluminum. Since more and more vehicles are going to aluminum to meet higher and higher CAFE requirements it will be prevalent unless you buy a carbon fiber car.
"It is not a Jeep thing it is an aluminum problem" you say??

So if i go check out a Mercedes G-Wagon, i should find the same issues around the hinges right?? they use aluminum and they have hinges...

Why is it so hard for our companies to buy a G and get it in their shop and take it apart and figure out what makes it so great and then make the Jeep lets say... 30% of that..

The Chinese are doing it with everything they make.. Why cant we?? Ugh
 

nerubi

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"It is not a Jeep thing it is an aluminum problem" you say??

So if i go check out a Mercedes G-Wagon, i should find the same issues around the hinges right?? they use aluminum and they have hinges...

Why is it so hard for our companies to buy a G and get it in their shop and take it apart and figure out what makes it so great and then make the Jeep lets say... 30% of that..

The Chinese are doing it with everything they make.. Why cant we?? Ugh
If you read back some posts you will see how Jeep consulted with Audi who had consulted with NASA on handling aluminum on vehicles because it is problems they have run into and still have. Read the post from an Army helicopter mechanic and the problem they have with aluminum. Go google other car manufacturers that use aluminum like Ford F-150. Try researching an issue instead of just making dumb statements.
 

Redneck_Jedi

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If you read back some posts you will see how Jeep consulted with Audi who had consulted with NASA on handling aluminum on vehicles because it is problems they have run into and still have. Read the post from an Army helicopter mechanic and the problem they have with aluminum. Go google other car manufacturers that use aluminum like Ford F-150. Try researching an issue instead of just making dumb statements.
Sounds like Jeep didn't follow the recommendations of NASA or Audi. If corrosion is truly an inherent issue with vehicles made from Aluminum, then Jeep should warn buyers that corrosion is a common problem so they can make an informed decision about their vehicle purchase. Either way, it's not the buyers fault. No one should expect to have their new vehicle in the body shop every year for repairs and re-paintimg.

It's strange that companies can make an aluminum soda can hold an acidic liquid for years without corroding, but can't keep it from happening to a vehicle that is stored in a dry garage. Maybe Jeep should have had Pepsi or Budweiser build their bodies. lol. :CWL:
 

nerubi

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Sounds like Jeep didn't follow the recommendations of NASA or Audi. If corrosion is truly an inherent issue with vehicles made from Aluminum, then Jeep should warn buyers that corrosion is a common problem so they can make an informed decision about their vehicle purchase. Either way, it's not the buyers fault. No one should expect to have their new vehicle in the body shop every year for repairs and re-paintimg.

It's strange that companies can make an aluminum soda can hold an acidic liquid for years without corroding, but can't keep it from happening to a vehicle that is stored in a dry garage. Maybe Jeep should have had Pepsi or Budweiser build their bodies. lol. :CWL:
And would you like it to crush like a Pepsi can? Different aluminum compounds. Jeep buikt a separate aluminum paint booth because any steel dust on an aluminum surface increases the chance of bubbling. That's why I am concerned about any standard body shop repainting this type of damage. My local Jeep dealer doesn't have an aluminum certified paint booth but their sister shop 40 miles away does so they are trying to get Jeep to allow them to take them there. If it is a new part it is suppose to come with a primer already on it and can be painted normally.
Do the dealers tell you some Wranglers may exoerience steering issues or death wobble before you buy it? It isn't necessarily a common problem, you are looking at posts of a few people on the forum out of nearly half a million sold. But you could follow the Ford owner that filed a class action law suit because of their aluminum corrosion problems. Maybe the judge will expand it to all car manufacturers.
 

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Redneck_Jedi

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And would you like it to crush like a Pepsi can? Different aluminum compounds. Jeep buikt a separate aluminum paint booth because any steel dust on an aluminum surface increases the chance of bubbling. That's why I am concerned about any standard body shop repainting this type of damage. My local Jeep dealer doesn't have an aluminum certified paint booth but their sister shop 40 miles away does so they are trying to get Jeep to allow them to take them there. If it is a new part it is suppose to come with a primer already on it and can be painted normally.
Do the dealers tell you some Wranglers may exoerience steering issues or death wobble before you buy it? It isn't necessarily a common problem, you are looking at posts of a few people on the forum out of nearly half a million sold. But you could follow the Ford owner that filed a class action law suit because of their aluminum corrosion problems. Maybe the judge will expand it to all car manufacturers.
Lol Definitely don't want it to crush like a Pepsi can. Most of the crush resistance is probably due to the thicknss of the Aluminum used. Also, Im sure that soda cans have some sort of coating on them to increase their corrosion resistance.

I wasn't aware that most Jeep dealers don't have an Aluminum Certified spray booth. You would figure that it would have been something most of them would now have, as FCA makes like 20 something vehicles with at least one Aluminum body panel. I'll be sure to ask if my dealer's body shop is Certified.

Honestly, I don't think we can accurately determine how widespread an issue is simply based on a forum topic. I would imagine that 90% of Jeep owners dont belong to a forum, or just dont post.

If jeep can permanently fix the issue on my Jeep, have the repair look like a factory paint job, and provide a lifetime corrosion warrany, I'd be a happy camper. :)
 

nerubi

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Lol Definitely don't want it to crush like a Pepsi can. Most of the crush resistance is probably due to the thicknss of the Aluminum used. Also, Im sure that soda cans have some sort of coating on them to increase their corrosion resistance.

I wasn't aware that most Jeep dealers don't have an Aluminum Certified spray booth. You would figure that it would have been something most of them would now have, as FCA makes like 20 something vehicles with at least one Aluminum body panel. I'll be sure to ask if my dealer's body shop is Certified.

Honestly, I don't think we can accurately determine how widespread an issue is simply based on a forum topic. I would imagine that 90% of Jeep owners dont belong to a forum, or just dont post.

If jeep can permanently fix the issue on my Jeep, have the repair look like a factory paint job, and provide a lifetime corrosion warrany, I'd be a happy camper. :)
i know the steel body corrosion warranty says it has to be a rust through to be covered beyond the basic warrant and under the 5 year 100,000 mile warranty. I haven't looked at the new warranty yet to see if they changed it.
 

wranglerguyman

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i know the steel body corrosion warranty says it has to be a rust through to be covered beyond the basic warrant and under the 5 year 100,000 mile warranty. I haven't looked at the new warranty yet to see if they changed it.
It's the same. Does aluminum corrode to the point where it goes through? If not, then I don't know what the parameters would be for the corrosion warranty. Looks to me like a grey area.
 

nerubi

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It's the same. Does aluminum corrode to the point where it goes through? If not, then I don't know what the parameters would be for the corrosion warranty. Looks to me like a grey area.
Just looked at the JL corrosion warranty and they changed the 5 year to be unlimited mileage. Still says sheet metal which seems it would cover aluminum. Still says holes. Surface rust or corrosion is not covered after basic warranty.
Not sure how the corrosion works on aluminum, if it will go through a panel. But just like steel paneks, car manufacturers require a hole not surface corrosion.

Don't know how many dealers have certified paint booths just going by what my paint shop manager said.
 

wranglerguyman

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Just looked at the JL corrosion warranty and they changed the 5 year to be unlimited mileage. Still says sheet metal which seems it would cover aluminum. Still says holes. Surface rust or corrosion is not covered after basic warranty.
Not sure how the corrosion works on aluminum, if it will go through a panel. But just like steel paneks, car manufacturers require a hole not surface corrosion.

Don't know how many dealers have certified paint booths just going by what my paint shop manager said.
A quick google search got me into other FCA vehicle forums (grand cherokee, pacfica) and users there stated that dealers will replace panels for aluminum surface corrosion since aluminum won't corrode through the panel. A couple of users stated that some dealers will push the "there has to a be a hole" agenda but since that's technically not possible, you should be able to find a dealer that will warranty the repair under the corrosion warranty.

That's good news for me since I am out of basic warranty.
 

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nerubi

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A quick google search got me into other FCA vehicle forums (grand cherokee, pacfica) and users there stated that dealers will replace panels for aluminum surface corrosion since aluminum won't corrode through the panel. A couple of users stated that some dealers will push the "there has to a be a hole" agenda but since that's technically not possible, you should be able to find a dealer that will warranty the repair under the corrosion warranty.

That's good news for me since I am out of basic warranty.
I put the FCA bulletin to dealers on how to get approved for aluminum coverage in an earlier post which requires pictures before corporate will authorize. My understanding is corporate determines whether to use a new panel or repair existing one. Maybe corporate is requiring proof because a few dealers got a little loose with the rules.
 

nerubi

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I know most Wrangler owners hate Consumer Reports but here is an article they had 5 years ago.

As part of their ever-increasing efforts to maximize fuel economy, carmakers are frequently using aluminum for body panels instead of steel to save weight.
Ford has been a leader in embracing the material at a volume level. In 2013 its CEO, Alan Mullaly, said that “pound for pound, aluminum is stronger and tougher than steel.”
Aluminum is seen as the best way to reduce hundreds of pounds of body weight all at once. Ford is placing a huge bet on its aluminum crash diet, using the alloy for all of the body panels and the bed of its redesigned F-150 pickup. It claims that aluminum can improve the vehicle’s fuel economy by as much as 29 percent.
That said, aluminum is a fickle metal to bend on the assembly line, and its quirky metallurgy could mean that body shops will have a tough time replacing bashed-in sheet metal. It’s more expensive than steel in a raw state, in its conversion to a usable sheet metal, and in its assembly—resulting in a 60 to 80 percent cost premium, according to a Massachusetts Institute of Technology study. A recent calculation by Forbes estimated the added cost at $500 per F-150.
Ford is gambling 800,000 units per year of its historically most profitable vehicle on this technology. Company officials insist that there will be no quality or durability sacrifice in stamping out work trucks from a metal more commonly associated with mom’s casserole.
But beware: Ford’s use of aluminum in pre-2015 vehicles has had glitches.
A case in point: A Consumer Reports reader from St. Paul, Minn., who had “very carefully” maintained her 2011 Ford Expedition EL found that the paint on the aluminum tailgate began bubbling. Her dealer said the paint was oxidizing, a result of contamination during the painting process. (Aluminum is more prone to contamination than steel.)
Her Expedition had just exceeded its 36,000-mile warranty when the problem surfaced. After months of frustration, she was able to get Ford to replace the tailgate, free. It took a lot of effort and phone calls, but the lesson is that it makes sense to complain—and take your complaint up the ladder until you get satisfaction.
Corrosion: There’s a fix for that

A scan of online discussion forums found paint problems and premature corrosion to be a common occurrence with aluminum.
When problems become prevalent with a car, manufacturers usually issue technical service bulletins (TSBs), which can instruct dealers to make repairs free or at a discount.
Ford has issued TSBs to address aluminum-related problems with a variety of models, and it’s not alone. Audi, General Motors, and Jaguar have issued TSBs as well.
Ford TSB number 06-25-15 covers Expedition tailgates from model years 2000 through 2007 and has been updated to include newer models. Although the bulletins haven’t covered our reader’s Expedition, it appears that Ford is making good on consumer complaints about late-model vehicles.
If you have a similar problem and the manufacturer isn’t coming through with a discounted or free repair, document the damage with photographs and keep records of conversations you have with the dealer. He might change his mind if you complain enough.
So how might Ford’s checkered past with aluminum affect the F-150? The company says that the vehicle is completely different from previous aluminum models; it’s more dent-resistant, and its paint is applied with a new process.
Ford also claims that body-repair costs won’t be any higher than for a steel-bodied truck, and it has begun a nationwide training and certification process to make sure that its dealerships are up to speed. To show their confidence in the new technology, Ford has placed a five-year, unlimited-mileage warranty for corrosion and paint adhesion on the 2015 F-150.
Buyers unfortunate enough to find themselves in need of a body shop after purchasing a new F-150 can find a qualified aluminum repair center by using the dealer locator, at owner.ford.com.
 

TBULL52

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After taking my Jeep to Ourisman Jeep where I bought it, they took pictures and then, since they do not have a body shop the ask me to take it up the street to the Ourisman Chevy that does have a body shop and they are certified to work on aluminum and have a designated shop just for aluminum. They provided me with a quote that is replacing the affected hinges with new painted hinges. The guy said it would be cheaper to buy the new hinges than the hours that it would take to sand down the current hinges and repaint. I am now waiting for jeeps approval for this quote
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