33s vs 35s? (First lift and Larger Tire purchase)

[KiknTiresLightnFires]

Wow. All Really good feedback from everyone, I really appreciate everyone taking their time to help me out with this.

So I have a few followups. I'm not sold yet one way or the other seeing that the responses and survey are literally split down the middle. However, I am leaning more towards the 33s with a 2.5 inch lift like I originally thought. That being said, I would like whatever setup I go with now, to be able to support 35s in the future if I do decide to upgrade or purchase them now. That way the only thing I would be having to add are tires and a re-gear. Not throwing away money with a lift and wheels that don't support 35s.

What are your thoughts on this and what setup would you recommend? Also I've recently seen a decent amount of posts saying that the stock JLU Sport S axle won't support 35s or is a bad idea because it isn't strong enough? Anyone have any insight on that? If I HAVE to upgrade to a DANA 44 just for 35s than that answers my question right there. I simply don't have the budget for a re-gear and new axle just to run the tires successfully off-road.

Finally with 33s

I would have no hesitation taking a stock height sport with 33s across sidewinder in corral canyon. If you don't see yourself doing something harder than that then skip the 35s.

If anyone has any more insight on what 33s with a 2.5 lift is capable of without fear of damaging the vehicle or getting in over my head, that would be awesome. Trying to find some trails in Southern California that I'll be able to do with that setup.

Again, I appreciate all your guys insight.

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[jmcdtucson]

Wow. All Really good feedback from everyone, I really appreciate everyone taking their time to help me out with this.

So I have a few followups. I'm not sold yet one way or the other seeing that the responses and survey are literally split down the middle. However, I am leaning more towards the 33s with a 2.5 inch lift like I originally thought. That being said, I would like whatever setup I go with now, to be able to support 35s in the future if I do decide to upgrade or purchase them now. That way the only thing I would be having to add are tires and a re-gear. Not throwing away money with a lift and wheels that don't support 35s.

What are your thoughts on this and what setup would you recommend? Also I've recently seen a decent amount of posts saying that the stock JLU Sport S axle won't support 35s or is a bad idea because it isn't strong enough? Anyone have any insight on that? If I HAVE to upgrade to a DANA 44 just for 35s than that answers my question right there. I simply don't have the budget for a re-gear and new axle just to run the tires successfully off-road.

Finally with 33s

If anyone has any more insight on what 33s with a 2.5 lift is capable of without fear of damaging the vehicle or getting in over my head, that would be awesome. Trying to find some trails in Southern California that I'll be able to do with that setup.

Again, I appreciate all your guys insight.

With a manual transmission and 3.45 gear ratio, 35's are going to be pretty painful. That's the consistent thing I've heard from most everyone on this group and I've looked at it a lot because I have the same setup. I don't think it's the strength of the axle, just the gear ratio.
35's only net you another inch of clearance at the differential anyway. Probably better off investing in trying it out and buying stuff as you need it like recovery gear, quick disconnects, rock sliders, maybe skid plates on your diffs and other low-hanging stuff as needed. You can probably do more than you imagine with 33's.

 

[blnewt]

Thanks, wife was really happy when finally picked the wheels. It only took me about 4 months to decide.

That's about the same time as I took to choose mine. Only problem is I only ordered 4 figuring to use my stock wheel/tire as a spare in emergencies only. I later decided to get the 5th to match the new tire/wheel size only to find out the wheels were discontinued so I had to find a close second lesson learned, just pony up for 5 from the start!!!

 

[scrape]

I agree with @jmcdtucson you're going to have a bad time with stock gears and 35s. Arguably your jeep will be less capable because it's going to be a lot more difficult to drive. Even with 33s you will be wishing you had deeper gearing for some obstacles, but with 35s the problems are significantly exacerbated.

As far as lifting and going to 35s down the road. A lift doesn't actually dictate what size tires you can run. A hard concept to grasp and a losing battle for me to argue on this forum, but it's the truth. Tire fitment is determined by the distance between your axle and your fenders at full compression. Lifting a vehicle does not change this distance. You change this distance by adding bump stop (limiting how far up your axle can travel during articulation), or by getting fenders with more clearance. Mopar sells OEM rubi fenders as a kit for like $450 which add an inch or two of clearance. There are some new rugged ridge ones coming out (link) that will have significantly more clearance than the rubi ones and should fit 35s and maybe 37s just fine. What a lift actually does is increases the distance between your body/frame/belly and the ground. So how much lift you need really depends on the types of trails you run. If your comfort zone is rutted out trails and hill climbs and you never drag your belly across any rocks, then maybe you don't need a lift.

With that said, Sports do sit kind of low, and rubi take-off suspension will give you an extra 1.5" or so of height, and increase your articulation because the shocks are longer. And it's super cheap, I found this on the SD craigslist: https://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/pts/d/san-diego-2020-jeep-rubicon-jl-front/7109486200.html

One suspension mod you definitely want to do is front sway bar disconnects. I think I mentioned that before. Not just for performance but for safety. Wheeling with your front bar connected can get awfully tipsy. I also mentioned rocker guards which are important. There is a ton of junk out there, I listed a few brands in my previous post that I would trust to support the weight of the jeep without deflecting up into the body.

Then for trails, you should check out the so cal section and talk to some SD guys. I don't go down there too often. But I know that everything in corral canyon is doable, but bronco peak will be sketchy. I'd probably hold off on that until you are more comfortable. Elliot Mine (valley of the moons) is also doable.

 

[blnewt]

Taylor, I've been very happy w/ the budget-friendly mods I've done and had plenty of compliments from a lot of fellow Jeepers. Just the following four mods~
295/70/17 tires (33.3" tall)
17x8.5 +10 offset wheels
4 door Rubicon suspension swap
Mopar 2" lift Lower Control Arms

The tires are a good size for decent lift and not too wide to exceed much outside the fenders, if you want a bit taller but not as taxing on your gears as a 35, a 285/75/17 (34" tall) is a good compromise. Only problem w/ that size is the tire selection is limited and more expensive, but is a great fit at the fender w/ that Rubicon swap.

The wheels w/ that extra width and +10 offset allow you to run up to 12.5" width tires but keep the tires closer to the fender edge.

The Rubicon suspension swap is a great choice for running up to 35s, although 33s seem to be about perfect w/ that lift. The parts are all OEM factory Mopar parts (dealer probably won't even know you changed things up) and the sets can be found on this site for $100 to 200. The only parts you need are the springs & shocks although including the end links are a plus since these will wear (and can even snap under duress). This will typically result in a 1.5 to 2" lift, the lift will be higher if the Rubicon has more "heavy" options such as 4dr, hard top, steel bumpers, tow pkg. so the more options= the higher lift.

Once you raise the Jeep the 1.5 to 2" you should restore (or even improve) your factory castor setting. The Mopar Lower Control Arms (LCAs) can be had for $70, this will get your castor in the 6 degree range which will make your JL track much better, not prone to wander like a JL w/ lower castor will do, much better road manners at hwy speeds for sure!

Here's my Rubicon & LCA swap install link and some before & after pics (stock, new wheels/tires, and w/ Rubi lift)
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/rubicon-suspension-on-2-door-sport.40700/

 

[scrape]

That's a well put together jeep @blnewt and would murder most of the trails here in so cal. One thing about 295/70 and 285/75 is usually you will only find those in 10 plys. Harsher on the road and you have to air them down more to get them to squat (i.e. more likely to unseat a bead). But on the plus side they are more resistant to punctures. 285/70 there are plenty of AT and MT options in 6 ply.

 

[oceanblue2019]

So I am new to the tire and suspension aftermarket world of Jeep, looking for some insight and expertise. I Had a TJ for about 6 years and just upgraded to the JL last Fall. I'd like to upgrade to larger tires and a modest lift but have never done so before so I have some questions. The big internal debate currently is do I go for 33s or 35s? I currently have a Sport S JLU 4 door with stock (31) tires and manual transmission.

I drive about 30 miles to work everyday and see a lot of highway. I'll probably take it off-road twice a month in southern California for moderate trails, no crawling. This is my daily driver.

I've been thinking of doing 33s with a 2.5' lift, but don't want to regret it and wish I went 35s. I'm trying to figure out if 33s will give me a capable enough platform without sacrificing gas mileage, power,
and the possibility of having to re-gear.

If anyone has made the switch from 33s to 35s, What made you switch and how significant was the difference in MPG, and ride quality? Is there anything you regret? Did you re-gear? Do you wish you stuck with 33s? (specifically in non Rubicon models)

Lastly, is there any recommendation in specific lift/spacers that you would suggest with both tire sizes?

Thanks for all your help guys. Excited to get started on this build!

I'd take a good off-road training course and you'll learn things to get you down the trail that no amount of parts can match

 

[shekmark]

Toyo just released AT III. It is C rated and they have 33 and 34. I think thats gonna be my upgrade from my OEM 33 KO2’s. Its a bit more street oriented which suits my needs. I am not a fan of the KO2.

 

[Lil Punk'n]

That's about the same time as I took to choose mine. Only problem is I only ordered 4 figuring to use my stock wheel/tire as a spare in emergencies only. I later decided to get the 5th to match the new tire/wheel size only to find out the wheels were discontinued so I had to find a close second lesson learned, just pony up for 5 from the start!!!

I thought about going that route also, but I decided to listen to a buddy. He said i was asking for real trbl if I used my stock as a spare on the road. The difference in size could really be bad even after just a few miles. So now my motto is " If your going to go don't go cheap".

 

[Shots]

....That being said, I would like whatever setup I go with now, to be able to support 35s in the future if I do decide to upgrade or purchase them now. That way the only thing I would be having to add are tires and a re-gear. Not throwing away money with a lift and wheels that don't support 35s....t.

As the others have already said, the lift doesn't usually have any problems supporting bigger tires. Some with softer springs may not be as well suited for heavier tires, but typically that's not 35 range stuff.

... A lift doesn't actually dictate what size tires you can run. A hard concept to grasp and a losing battle for me to argue on this forum, but it's the truth. Tire fitment is determined by the distance between your axle and your fenders at full compression. Lifting a vehicle does not change this distance. .....

That's actually a great point. However the typical conversation isn't so much about the maximum compression, but rather rubbing during "normal" or even "most" conditions. Some people are willing to accept that they may have some rubbing a full compression, but they want the lift to clear bigger tires over the majority of articulation such as mild trails, speed bumps, dips in the road, and other common "obstacles" encountered while driving, since most are daily drivers.

... if you want a bit taller but not as taxing on your gears as a 35, a 285/75/17 (34" tall) is a good compromise. Only problem w/ that size is the tire selection is limited and more expensive, ....

Agreed. I'm running 285/75/17 and they're a great tire. Selection is slim, and they are expensive. I got mine used from a guy who had them on a Silverado for a few weeks and decided they were too small for his lift (IIRC 6"). I got 4 tires cheap, and the 1 that I had to buy for the spare cost nearly as much as the used set of 4, even with a great deal by discout tire. Had I not got the set I did, I was strongly considering the 295.
FWIW, here's my Sahara with a 2" lift and 34's.

 

[KiknTiresLightnFires]

I'm running 285/75/17 and they're a great tire. Selection is slim, and they are expensive.

That is what I've actually been looking for. A middle of the ground tire to have sort of the best of both worlds. Haven't really been able to find one that I like in any kind of price range close to my budget. How are 35s less expensive than 34s? Also there is a guy I know from work offering $1000 for take off 2019 rubi rims and tires. Less than 500 miles on them.

My plan was to go with Mickey Thompson ATZs P3s and Mammoth Matte Black 5 spoke wheels for $1980, but I'm not sure I can pass up that offer for new wheels and tires for 1000.

The Rubicon suspension swap is a great choice for running up to 35s, although 33s seem to be about perfect w/ that lift.

So you didn't even add a lift? Just replaced you suspension with a stock rubi one?

 

[blnewt]

So you didn't even add a lift? Just replaced you suspension with a stock rubi one?

Yes sir, just springs & shocks (end links were also included but not "needed") from a 4dr Rubicon, easy to find on the site, although many won't ship them but might get lucky and find a member nearby. Maybe that guy selling the Rubi take off tires also has his suspension ready to go too Or maybe he has plans for a new lift, never hurts to ask, and $150 is a reasonable price to pay. Best if it's a 4dr w/ hardtop, steel bumpers and tow pkg, these have the tallest springs.

Nice plan to get Rubi take off tires & wheels, tires alone are in the $1300 range (if he's selling all 5) so w/ the wheels that's a great deal!

 

[jmcdtucson]

So you didn't even add a lift? Just replaced you suspension with a stock rubi one?

Add in 1/2" spacers while you're swapping out the springs and shocks and that will give you a little more lift if you want. It's a super cheap lift for your sport. Will give you about 2" total with the spacers - plus the Rubicon tires will lift you up another 1/2".

 

[Shots]

That is what I've actually been looking for. A middle of the ground tire to have sort of the best of both worlds. Haven't really been able to find one that I like in any kind of price range close to my budget. How are 35s less expensive than 34s? Also there is a guy I know from work offering $1000 for take off 2019 rubi rims and tires. Less than 500 miles on them.

My plan was to go with Mickey Thompson ATZs P3s and Mammoth Matte Black 5 spoke wheels for $1980, but I'm not sure I can pass up that offer for new wheels and tires for 1000.

Sounds like a good price to me for a set of 5 rims/tires. Especially if he left the sensors in and you can just bolt them on and go. You'll save on the cost of sensors and tire shop fees too that way.
I really like my Rubi take-off rims. I hadn't planned on swapping rims, but tire selections for 18's was even harder to find than 34's on 17" rims.
As for price. 34's probably cost more for 2 reasons. First is because they're less common so the price can't be offset by high volume sales. Instead they need to get more per tire to recover the cost of R&D, production and make a profit. Secondly is because a lot of 34's tend to be thicker, higher load range tires than some of the more affordable 35's.

As for the Mickey Thompsons. I had the Baja MTZ on my last truck and they were loud. Even though the ATZ may be quieter, I'd still be hard pressed to spend the extra $980, knowing how much I liked the KO2's on my Grand Cherokee.

 

[jeepoch]

I think its interesting that even though there is a larger number of votes favoring 35" tires, the majority of respondents are pro 33". Clearly these comments don't necessarilly match the poll, at least not at this instant in time.

I voted for 35" tires just because that's the direction I'm heading. However, I do have some reservations. Primarily because my JL is a Sport S 2 door 3.6L auto with the m186/m200 open diffs with the 3.45 gears. The primary reason for me selecting the 35's is that the Jeep club I'm working on joining has a firm requirement of 35" tires minimum. Maybe I'm getting in a little over my head, but I'm not departing with my Michelin 245/70R17's (32") and 17x7.5 stock wheels. If for whatever reason I don't like the 35's I'll go back to these and re-architect a new build plan.

Hopefully though, I'll educate myself through experience and sound science (but most likely via experimental trial and error), on what the best outcome may be (at least for me). I'm trusting that the other more experienced jeepers in the club will help guide me to either higher gears / different axles (with perhaps even lockers) not likely but who knows. Only time will tell as my skill and experience will dictate my future jeep investment(s). My biggest worry with the 35's will be the 3.45 gears. So I'm going to see what shakes out after driving this setup for a while.

Realistically I didn't purchase a Rubicon simply because I couldn't afford it. Maybe for some that is the minimum cost of entry in order to properly off-road but I say boulder-dash. This JL Sport will be my on/off-road vehicle of choice and as my daily driver I need to take some care of it. However, I really do want to go see my state (CO) up close and personal. Off-roading is the absolute best way to do so. I'm open for advice and mentorship but it's my Wrangler and I'll enjoy both the ups and downs of the build choices I make and the places I take it.

So I will travel this path with my eyes wide open. Go big, or go home. At least big enough to go play knowing full well that some sort of axle physics may also need to be tweaked during the course of this journey. I'm certainly not expecting to either go cliff-climbing or canyon diving with it. But a few pebbles or mud patches aren't going to scare me off either.

However I'll decide what may be needed along the way. In the end, I'll likely finish up with an almost Rubi. That's fine by me. I'll have earned the result through hard work, skill, education and experience rather than an insanely expensive up-front sissy purchase.

Rubicon owners can thumb their nose at my mere Sport all they want. The real fun at Jeeping is not only driving, but building and playing with the equipment along the way. Meeting new friends, learning from their experiences, and enjoying their company are the true sources of figuring all this out.

Thank you all in this forum, driving either 33, 35 or whatever for contributing to this thread. It all helps.

For the record this CV mess has me waiting on my preferred wheels. Fuel Ammo Anthacite 17x9 -12mm offset, mated to either the Nitto EVO Grappler A/T's or the Goodyear Duratrac Ultraterrain Wranglers. Just completed the Mopar 2.5" lift. The pics below are still with the stock wheels. Finally as a side note, this setup (without the anticipated 35's) is still so much better than the stock ride. If everything goes south with the wheels/tires, I can still live with this (at least on-road) until I puzzle something else out.

Jay

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